I think a lot for the guys that follow these morons and buy into this culture did not have positive male role models growing up, thus turn to media for some guidance.
This does not excuse their conduct or self-delusion, but does explain why it happens.
They are victims as much as they are villains.
Very much so, which makes it all that more sad.
I’m in no way excusing their villanry, but most are so delusional that they won’t ever take a hard look at the way they are and wonder if they could be something else or if they need to change
this doesn’t mean much tho, considering people aren’t ever born ‘villains’. they all are created by something traumatic.
so sure, empathize all you want, but it doesn’t help anyone. simply enables it.
Empathy doesn’t have to mean letting them do whatever they want. It’s the only path to reforming them. I’ve worked with a young kid with no dad in the process of going down this pipeline. You have to challenge them on what they think they’ve learned about being a man, but if you don’t try to understand how they feel they will just shut you out. Ultimately you can’t make someone believe something. So you either give up and label them a lost cause, or you actually try to reach them and convince them person to person.
I think it does help in that we can approach our ridicule of them from a constructive manner.
“Your role models are taking advantage of you.”
“At least I don’t fail to hide my insecurities behind toxic masculinity.”
“You’re alone because you choose to be alone.”
I mainly feel bad with the young men who are not yet captured but are down that path. I’d like to think it couldn’t have happened to me but I had the luxery of going through that time of my life when that stuff wasn’t really around.
Though actually I had 4chan at that time and I turned out mostly well adjusted so they’re not completely blame-free.
people seem to think if you’re not in support of them or their position, then you haven’t experienced the same things and been on the same path. I saw where I was going and specifically changed it.
I’m still a depressed, alone, piece of shit, but I’m not a bigoted, fascist piece of shit.
What do you think they should have done differently? I am excusing their behaviour but I want to understand what should anyone with no positive male role model do other than turn to the internet?
well people can be both, victims of circumstance AND be accountable to their own agency that’s life its complicated and ambiguous. I bet like 20% of people with male socialization and no good role models haven’t become complete dicks
It’s not the fact that they’re on the internet, it’s the fact that being on the internet doesn’t inherently make them good.
Of course a boy subconsciously looking for guidance will find these guys and feel inspired or compelled by them. But maturity is the concept of learning from experience and challenging your own understanding in order to be a more balanced and level-headed person tomorrow. You know, exactly what these guys try to stop.
So the only thing these kids can do is embrace growing up, becoming mature, and finding role model figures that champion that instead of ones that peddle the arrested development that these charlatans do.
I find it crazy that I didn’t really have any real male role models, but the media I turned to ended up being guys like Henry Rollins.
The “finding myself” period of my life pre-dated the existence of this manosphere/shallow-ass-masculinity shit, but the archetype has been around for far longer and there were plenty of slimy douchebags to look up to. Sometimes I wonder what spared me.
The funniest thing about Andrew Tate is he’s so obviously overcompensating for being gay. I mean funny weird, it would be funny ha ha if he weren’t also a manipulative kidnapping rapist and grifter.
If the incels could read they’d be very upset
With role models like this, This guy is a small life crisis away from “can you spare a crumb of pussy” to “does this rag smell like ether”
Sneako and his “I’m a little teapot” lookin ass with those goofy ass ears. Holding a dickhead like him or the Tates up as some sort of goal to strive towards is synonymous with “rock bottom.”
I get it - like I understand the mechanism behind why some younger dudes become infatuated with these figures. It’s the same reason boomer housewives get into the Law of Attraction or why people who don’t have a single fucking clue think Trump is going to fix everything if he could just get one more term in office… but I don’t get it.
Holding a dickhead like him or the Tates up as some sort of goal to strive towards is synonymous with “rock bottom.”
for real, have you seen the chin (or lack thereof) on tate? lmfao. might be hard to spot of course because he tries to hide it very desperately with his little prepubescent goblin beard
I think it’s CO2 inhibiting brain functions like lead did back in the day.
Who are these two high value men (lol) next to Tate and the other one with the selfie?
What a bunch of freemales
Kermit the sexist philosopher.
No, these people were always sexist, that’s why it’s so easy to hook them on this bullshit.
We are all socialised with misogyny (as well as cis-heteronormativity) literally from infancy (and those of us who are directly impacted sadly internalise them to a depressing degree), and that’s when we need to start fighting against it, not only once the misogynists turn violent (verbally as well as physically), it’s too late at that point (even if they can be deradicalized the damage they did is already done).
That is not necessarily true. People can and do change. Darth Vader was not born evil, after all.
How insightful PrunesMakeYouPoop
The person you’re replying to is advocating for encouraging change.
I don’t know about sexist but I imagine they always had the defect in their brain that causes them to be inconsiderate and difficult
People only offer derision towards people who fall for this (which is absolutely reasonable), but only a few see it as the fucking tragedy it is, no one gives a fucking shit about young men and their issues or gives them support, who are then taken wholesale by THESE bastards and turned into incels and/or nazis, had young men had any support from decent people we might have less people on the side of the bastards
I’ve stopped believing that. I think there’s plenty of support for them online; people like Mark Manson have been putting out great stuff for years. (His writings helped me through a lot of stuff.)
I think the main problem is that improving yourself requires admitting that you were wrong about some things, and apparently that’s really hard to do for some people. Easier to blame it on the rest of society.
There are PLENTY of people who cares about young men. Many of them are just in REAL LIFE not on the internet.
Teachers and social workers at schools, classmates (yes, you can make friends with real people too.), FAMILY. Even if all that fails, many, many NGOs need more hands and would welcome any young men willing to volunteer. They just need to go there IN REAL LIFE.
As a young man, I found plenty of support in a variety of places. You just have to take a very small leap of faith and reject the asshole energy.
Some areas or fields have a difficult time reaching men, including young men, and it’s not because they are not wanted. Let’s take psychiatry, for example. Many people already believe psychiatry is nonsense; add to this the common idea that psychiatric treatment is for cowards—and that cowardice is mostly for women (because women can be many bad things, but men can’t)—, and that’s a recipe for men scoffing at the idea of visiting a psychiatrist (and a psychotherapist, by extension).
I’ve also heard people complaining about a lack of role models, but there are excellent role models. I hope I am not wrong about them, but I admire Stephen Fry, John Oliver, Keanu Reeves, Bill Nye… I also like many small influencers. Some of them talk about being a man with great insight, such as @watchfulcoyote on TikTok.
I cannot say with certainty how free these radicalized young men were to choose a better path than the one they are on, and it probably varies from case to case, but I know there were and are normal and decent people watching out for them.
God why is dmt lumped in with these idiots
So what’s wrong with the guy in the bottom left hand corner?
Apparently he’s some crazy tik tok “pick up artist”
Ew
Removed by mod
Somebody ain’t getting bitches lmao
Hey Champ, you seem like you’re tired. Take a nap. Relax. Pull the dick out of your ass. 🤎
U mad, bro? Yeah, you mad 😂
Imagine making sexism and homophobia your entire personality and world view, and then crying ‘wahhhhh!’ when everyone thinks you’re a steaming hot pile of diarrhea.
Yes, the hostile ridicule we offer them is far superior to the hostile brainwashing these goons offer them.
The answer? More hostile ridicule!
The only response to loneliness must be hostility!
I don’t believe ridicule should be the immediate response. However this comment and its tone is exactly the kind of thing you’re bemoaning, but from other direction. The only difference is you’re being preemptive about it and basically announcing it at nobody in particular instead of reacting to one person specifically.
I’m not being preemptive. I’m responding to general ridicule of lonely people who are falling prey to grifters.
Your comment is honestly incoherent. Maybe you can refine it.
It’s definitely not incoherent but I did accidentally write at an 11th grade level according to readability checkers.
It’s hard to be nice to people who think being nice is the same as offering free breeding.
