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Football games. I don’t see any gameplay difference between one made in 2007 and the latest football game, so why people still decide to drop 60$ for the very same game every year is something i don’t get.
Two reasons:
- Active multiplayer: Yes this is kind of a chicken and egg situation, but people who play online multiplayer want to play the version of the game with the largest community of active players.
- Roster updates: If you’re a fan of a sports team, you probably want to play using their current active roster. Yes, fan updates are sometimes available for older titles but the latest release will have updated face scans etc.
If there was a fan game that ran on donations, like stardew valley but on donations, one game could rule them all.
Or like, just make it a free commercial game but don’t put any real players in it. Let the community do that, just intentionally make it moddable. The fans will do the rest.
Any gacha.
“Oh I got so lucky! It only took 20 pulls to get Boobina!”
Yeah man, bet that felt a lot better than just unlocking her by doing her story quests like any normal game. Maybe you need to be a gambling addict or something.
It seems like you DO understand why gachas are popular. They are gambling.
Gachapon isn’t gambling, though I could see why one could be confused.
Gachapon (from which Gacha games get their name) is a Japanese word that essentially translates to “capsule toy.” It refers to the machine which you insert a coin and spin a knob, which causes the machine to drop a plastic (usually) capsule out of it. You know, like a gumball machine. Or those candy machines that were always full of banana hard candies near the exit at Ross or TJ Maxx.
With gachapon, you are paying for a capsule toy. You aren’t buying a specific capsule toy, you are buying a single capsule toy from the ones in the machine, and whichever one you get is random. However, you aren’t winning or losing, because you always “win the prize.” It might not be the one you want, but you always get what you pay for. Similar concept to blind-box toys.
With gambling, you spend money on a chance to win more money, usually. There is also a chance you win nothing and lose the money you spent. Gambling is when you spend money on something that can (and will often) give you nothing in return, which doesn’t happen with gachapon. With gachapon, you always “win,” but with gambling you very often lose. Gacha games always give you something valuable to the gameplay, even if you get duplicates of something you already have (makes the character more powerful, for example). Gambling often just takes your money and gives you absolutely nothing back except a sad, empty feeling.
Also, just don’t spend money if you don’t want to. It’s not hard. Nobody forces you to spend money on any game with a gun to your head (hopefully). Just have self-control, it’s easy. And if for some reason you don’t have self-control, work on it. Improve yourself.
Gacha games usually have enough free tickets built into it as rewards for playing the game that you can unlock almost everything you need to keep playing the game for free anyway. Just don’t expect to unlock everything in 3 hours.
Great comment except the part about telling people to just have self control. The FOMO aspect that gacha and gambling rely on is a real problematic thing. These game exist specifically because they can tap into that.
Gachapon and gambling might prey on the same psychological tendencies humans have, but they are not the same thing, which is the point of my comment.
I fail to see why saying “If you lack self-control, work on improving yourself” is a bad thing to say, or somehow wrong. If you cannot exercise self-control, then you will not have a happy life. You will find yourself constantly broke from impulse spending on things you don’t need or that give you no return on value other than “I might miss it.” You do not need a gacha game for that, as there are plenty of other things in real life that can do the same thing that people here wouldn’t be downvoting or commenting on, for example:
- attending a local farmer’s market
- attending live musician performances
- attending a live artist or author event
- eating promotional food items at restaurants
- attending hobby and art conventions
Everything has a time limit. Nothing exists for the span of eternity here, and thus everything has a chance to become, if it is not already, a time limited item or event that preys on FOMO for different personal interests. But if you have self-control, FOMO doesn’t have hardly any effect on you. Your do not HAVE to do X, or see Y, or buy Z. It is not a requirement of life. You aren’t going to ever be able to do, see, or buy everything you want. Its a fact of life. Self-control helps you realize this.
Saying no to yourself is powerful. You dont always have to say no, but self-control helps you to know when you should. And thus, it removes the power FOMO has over you. You stop caring about what other people think or say, and it gives you the power to stay financially responsible, and helps keep you mentally healthy.
Why is this bad? Even in the context of what I am talking about, if someone decides to play a gacha game, they should definitely have self-control. A person with no self-control will quickly find themselves peniless playing a gacha game, but they were probably going to be peniless eithout the gacha game too. Its not the fault of the game, it is the fault of the player.
Self control isn’t guaranteed for everyone. Your take here is pretty ableist.
You’d place blame on victims instead of abusers. Companies that have spent fortunes to make sure their systems go after easy targets. People who aren’t neurotypical, people who grew up with different cultures that didn’t prepare them for this or any of multiple other sources that would make them easier to take advantage of over and over.
Also, just don’t spend money if you don’t want to. It’s not hard. Nobody forces you to spend money on any game with a gun to your head (hopefully). Just have self-control, it’s easy. And if for some reason you don’t have self-control, work on it. Improve yourself.
It’s not hard for you. But many people are wired in a way that makes it exceptionally hard for them to resist these kind of psychological dark patterns. These are innate characteristics, with some overlap with ADHD and other neurodiversity, not necessarily something one can “work on”. And there’s a reason why these dark patterns are in the games, because they work in extracting more money from players than they would otherwise give.
Stephanie Sterling made a video a few years ago where they go into detail how modern games prey on vulnerable people: The Addictive Cost Of Predatory Videogame Monetization (The Jimquisition)
It might not be the one you want, but you always get what you pay for. Similar concept to blind-box toys.
With gachapon, you always “win,”
Disagree with the 2nd point here. If you are playing genshin or whatever, spend real life money on pulls to get a specific character and instead get something else, you have effectively lost. What you got is not what you spent your money for and possible not or barely valuable.
When you put your quarter into the gumball machine, you are buying a gumball. Not a specific color or flavor of gumball. It doesn’t matter which gumball machine you put the quarter into, whether it is full of red gumballs with a few green ones, or if it is full of gumballs of every color of the rainbow. You are getting exactly what you are paying for: a gumball from the machine. It doesnt matter if you put a quarter into the machine with mostly red gumballs hoping for a red or green gumball, you are buying a gumball from that machine, not a specific gumball.
Same idea with gacha games. I understand its not popular or liked, but that is how it is.
I can butt in on this a little bit. The problem with statements like this is that they treat “gacha” (the monetisation and unit recruitment system) as a genre when gacha games are too varied to be locked under this single umbrella (at least for a conversation like this). To name a few, you have games like:
- Arknights (tower defence)
- Azur Lane (bullet-hell kinda sorta)
- Bang Dream (rhythm game)
- Genshin Impact (action-adventure)
- Girls’ Frontline (tactical autobattler)
- Persona 5X (JRPG, just gacha Persona)
All of them play differently, offer different challenges and the impact of their gacha systems can be all over the place. Sometimes there are limited character pulls which have serious effect on gameplay (most of the modern titles), other times characters are super easy to obtain and improve as most of the monetisation comes from character costumes etc (Girls’ Frontline, Azur Lane for example).
Besides that, many of them have engaging stories, which combined with offering lots of content and being able to play them for free makes the whole thing even more appealing.Not that the aspect of “oh cool, I unlocked new character” doesn’t play any role or that there’s nothing predatory about most of the games using this mechanic, it’s just that “gacha” mechanics aren’t always the sole or main factor keeping people playing.
TL;DR: They are just free games that can, but aren’t always, predatory with a specific gameplay mechanic. Often offer enough value for free players to have fun with them.
To me Gacha isn’t a genre it’s a business model. And I understand their gripes …
So do I, I’m just saying that many wonder “why people play gacha games” without realising (or caring) that there’s actual “game” part outside of the monetisation itself.
Yeah, I put 2000+ hours into Genshin over 4 years and have like 75 characters without ever spending any money. But the game is still so full of psychological dark patterns that would squeeze out the last penny from those whose personality or neurodiversity makes them vulnerable against such manipulation.
And yet again, the core of the issue of capitalism. As Stephanie Sterling put it many a time, the companies’ attitude is “Why be satisfied with a lot of money, when we could have all the money.”
My main game is the already mentioned Girls’ Frontline (the first one), which is thankfully old enough to come out before the modern monetisation practises and psychological tricks became the norm. There’s no limited pull currency, no need for character dupes (can be replaced by a resource that is so easy to get I can’t even spend it all), no character specific events to push the new and shiny unit etc.
It does have skin gacha for most (but not all) character skins but even then you can use farmable resource for that + getting duplicate costumes turns them into “Black Cards” which can be exchanged for specific outfit. It’s still a bad system and a black mark on an otherwise extremely free-2-play friendly game.I feel like the most important part of playing gacha games is the ability to just walk away if a title ends up being monetised in a way that affects your enjoyment or well being (for those with lack of self-control). There’s plenty of fun to be had for free, no need to give into FOMO and suffering through predatory balancing decisions when there’s so many options on the market.
I agree with you but then I see people calling themselves gacha gamers and hopping into every new gacha regardless of genre or gameplay so I just assumed I just didn’t get it.
Oh, absolutely. I assume people who play exclusively gacha games do so due to the combination of F2P, regular content updates and excitement from pulling for characters/gambling but that’s just a personal guess. I don’t have any hard data to confirm it.
As for folks playing them regardless of genre, that’s not really exclusive to gacha games - there’s plenty of people who play whatever catches their attention, myself included. Strategy, racing, shooters, adventure games… if it clicks with me I’ll play anything (gacha or not). There’s too much fun stuff out there to limit yourself to a single genre, in my opinion.
And then half the time, “Boobina” is like a 11 year old girl.
For the ones I play, the actual gameplay is the appeal; and I accept the gacha only if it’s reasonably permissive to free players.
The genre definitely has a recurring issue with power scaling, to get people to roll for the newest gooner bait, and when that becomes too apparent, it kills my interest. That’s the other thing: You have to prepare your sanity for the inevitable day you’ll stop playing that game and sacrifice hours of “character progress” to find something else fun. Heck, could just be another gacha that’s bending over backwards to cater to new players.
As someone with 2000+ hours in Genshin, I completely agree 😆 I only play for exploration nowadays because the story actively pushed me away, while the gambling never appealed to me. I wish we could just unlock characters via quests. I get no joy from a lucky draw, so I just treat gacha pulls in batches of guaranteed unlocks, like the price of this character is 160 pulls and that’s it. But the whole monetisation is disgustingly predatory for those who are even a little susceptible to it.
Eh at least it’s cheaper than actual casinos, let them have it lol
Any game with grinding where microtransactions can invalidate weeks of grind.
It’s already a big ask to make players find fun in a grind, but some C-level dipshits found a way to stamp that fun out too.
Any game where just grinding is the main thing you do
I would generally agree, but some games have massive grinds and can be totally fun to play without participating in most of the grind.
Take war thunder or world of tanks. If you just want to drive a Panzer IV all day you can unlock that in a few days or so, then never care about unlocking anything again. Just keep driving your panzer and having fun.
League of fucking legends. Why… The repetitiveness and toxic community especially… Just dont get it.
Competitive (e)sports are usually repetitive to a certain degree. I wouldn‘t call League very repetitive anyway. It’s mostly the same map, yes, but football and chess are also always on the same „map“. With 160+ champs and their interactions and the strategizing aspect of it, I never felt like a match was going like another.
The players are mostly insufferable (like in other competitive games) and League‘s too much of a timesink due to average game time.
I don’t understand the popularity of it because I don’t understand how people even get into today. There’s so much going on with dozens of characters it would take months or even years to memorize everything. I played Apex on and off since it released and I feel it is starting to become the same thing. Every time I play now I feel like no one who has ever played before would be interested in the game.
Kingdom Hearts. Goofy and Sephiroth in the same room together breaks my brain, and not in a fun way. I played the first game when it came out on PS2 and decided it wasn’t for me.
I’ve seen story breakdowns of the other games on YouTube and figured I’m not missing anything. Lots of setups and plot hooks that don’t go anywhere or go somewhere stupid.
Your take is entirely accurate but I still love this game. I couldn’t even tell you why. Maybe it’s nostalgia.
Disney is popular. Final Fantasy is popular. Put them together and apparently you get something that sells, but for me the concept is less like chocolate and peanut butter and more like peanut butter and pickles.
That mobile game where you slowly build up a city, train lots of troops, launch attacks on other players’ cities, form alliances and so on, before getting soundly thumped by the Koreans.
Reversed Front? Jk - I know Korea isn’t part of China yet
Anything competative or stupidly difficult like soulslikes.
Life is stressful enough already; games are for having fun and I don’t find stress very fun.You know how Neo at the end of the Matrix finally understood how everything works? When he counters every move Smith makes with ease despite getting his ass kicked just moments earlier at the train station.
That’s the feeling we get from soulsgames when we overcome a challenge.
That’s probably the most concise explanation of souls games I’ve heard yet!
My first time through Sekiro, I probably died over 100 times before Madame Butterfly. My second time through Sekiro, I got to her and beat her without dying once. It was glorious! I don’t think the combat in that game will ever be topped.
I tried Wukong, got through the first chapter and then some. You can tell it’s a good game. I enjoyed the mechanics, the story, everything well put together. I wanted to have fun. I just never really did. Also any sense of accomplishment was pretty much just a sense of relief after beating a boss.
Oh yeah I tried that and totally got the same vibe. I got my ass kicked by the first wolf boss before looking up how to beat him. Then I got to the next area where there were a lot more strong enemies and I was like “nah, I’m out.”
This is a hard one as I generally just ignore games that don’t appeal to me, so I forget they even exist.
But I guess games that have FOMO mechanics that don’t respect your time and push you towards playing every day.
Likewise I am a point in my life where I can see one gameplay video and be like yep not for me. But I sometimes question how it could be for anyone
Roblox
Sports games based on real teams. It makes me feel like I’m playing an ad. Oh yeah and if there are actual ads too. 😪
Give me fake teams, fake players, even fake cities? and you have activated my interest.
Roblox
Watching my kids play, Roblox seems like 3 basic games with about 700 theme/character variations.
The business model seems to be:
A) spend nothing on game design - make a handful of blockoid graphic options and let your users believe they are really rising in the world
B). Create a game that is much like gambling - you get little wins just often enough to keep kids stuck in the loop, but rarely enough that they want to buy Roblox to get the thing they want
C). When they buy said gift card, ensure Roblox can only be purchased in packages that add up to awkward amounts so they can retain 2-5% of the gift card value in unusable dollars that sit on the account. For every $50 gift card there is about $2.50 that just has to sit on the account until the next gift card (or for them, better yet if you forget about it)
Yeah, I just tell my kids that we aren’t getting them Roblox. The only concession I made was letting my daughter get some for dress to impress vip, and for the couple bucks she spent there, she’s logged enough hours to make it feel like it wasn’t a waste. I tell them absolutely not to spending money on anything that’s not persistent, or to anything that’s “cheating,” because what’s the point.
Generally agree with everything you said, a lot of rehashing, although they’ve sucked me into the “obby” games, as I grew up on platformers and still enjoy them, and so I’ll give their silly platformer a try here and there. It sucks when they’re just reskinned. My son also likes to play the horror games with me, and it’s incredible how many different version of roadside stand with anomalies there is.
especially considering the problems - glaring issues like child labor, creeps, shittons of microtransactions etc
Phantom forces is peak roblox. Its more fun than call of duty.
GTAV Online
It makes a BILLION DOLLARS a year of PROFIT. Not revenue. Profit. Why?
Everything in game is obscenely expensive, and once rockstar discovered they can charge idiots for Shark Cards, the game got patched and the quick-money smaller activities got neutered, basically requiring people to swipe credit cards.
Men in their early twenties are really easily entertained, source: many years ago I was a man in my early twenties and was really easily entertained
i own all 3d GTA, the og’s - I’ve never played online, it’s just not appealing to do it 😅
Sports games almost all are universally bad and it really shows when a real game adapts sport concepts like Rocket League or Wii sports. These days sport games are just gacha games.
Gacha games all suck period. I’ve given up on them entirely as the gameplay always suffers eventually as mobs just becomes sponges unless you do repetitive garbage daily. Really hate this as some awesome games are being held hostage by gacha extraction but I’ll never be fooled into gacha again, ZZZ was my last chance.
But have you considered https://wikigacha.com/?lang=EN
Lmao this is awesome!
Extraction shooters. You work your ass off to get gear, only to lose it to some griefing asshole hiding in a dark corner. Assuming you actually don’t lose your gear to players, server wipes are almost mandatory to keep people playing and to try and level the playing field. They’re like a worse battle royal.
People who like abusive relationships like this kind of stuff. Life is bad enough in the real world for me
What about single player ones? Zero sievert and escape from duckov.
Bonus is that they have difficulty options to choose if you want to lose your stuff on death or not. Downside is that I think balancing a game around both of those being options is difficult and feels a bit off.
Would be interested in a coop one tbh, ZS2 apparently doing coop.
EFT single player is a hoot. Ive played the shit out of it.
No idea, looks painful to run it on Linux so I haven’t bothered trying.
Meta progression is what ruins these games imo. Back in my day (😮) we just played for points and knew they were worthless. And everything but your own skills reset after every match. And cosmetics were free because players just enjoy making them for eachother.
But there’s not much to sell there, so no money being spent to trick you into getting addicted
Cones of Dunshire. It’s too complicated.
You forgot about the essence of the game. It’s about the cones.
The thing about the Challenge Play is it is basically the game… in reverse.
