The conversations are amazing
There’s a bunch of Chinese posts asking if the stuff about school shootings, fires, homelessness are exaggerated propaganda only to be told otherwise. It’s both hilarious and sad.
School shootings is something uniquely american. Even México doesn’t have them and we have a decent amount of narcojuniors (rich sons of drug dealers) that would have plenty access to guns, the only time i remember a school shooting happening it was in a private school in Monterrey like 7 years ago, which is pretty much the most americanized part of México.
I’m reminded of that ex Soviet joke about how they always knew the government was lying about their own countries but were shocked to learn it was telling the truth about america
It’s uncomfortable seeing Xi with an actual jawline…
TOPXI
Xi Chadping
Xigma male
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Eh, there’s truth and lies on both sides. Coming from someone that lived in china for 4 years and was able to engage with Chinese primary news sources. But basic healthcare in china is faster and cheaper, but then again I went to get a wart removed and they prescribed me acorn paste that accelerated the growth of the wart. So win some lose some.
Trying to dodge Chinese traditional medicine in Asian countries when you go to the doctor is such a pain in the ass.
I had to go to three different Japanese doctors before they would give me something other than herbal powder.
I had a colleague who had been a nurse and I’d show my prescriptions and ask “BS or actual medicine” and she’d tell me. I just started asking her first and she’d type out what I need before I went to the doctor.
The wart had to grow so it could be killed
Wart fertilizer perhaps
Circle jerking about China is as ridiculous as circle jerking about the US. We’ve been here before with US vs USSR, but this time everyone has a megaphone and an IQ that can be measured with a ruler.
I mean isn’t this more "circle jerking " about dismantling state propaganda? Interacting with those you were told are your enemy?
Besides, people should always celebrate the positives, and look towards them as something that is possible in their country too.
And as an fyi: when we were here before, the workers revolution in Russia was new. The achievements were so profound that workers in North America began demanding similar concessions from our governments. There was a real threat of overthrowing the existing power structures. And what happened? Weekends, literacy, healthcare, just generally improved living conditions. To dismiss cultural exchange as circle jerking is to ignore history and the power that comes with knowing things are better elsewhere, and that you can have that too.
when we were here before
🎶Couldn’t look you in the eye 🎶
You keep on coping there little buddy. What’s happening is that regular people from both countries are now talking directly to each other, and finding out what life is actually like.
what was preventing them from doing it before?
Lack of will on the part of Americans to engage on Chinese platforms like Xiaohongshu. The looming TikTok ban is what pushed people over the edge.
tiktok is chinese tho so where were all the chinese users?
TikTok is a Chinese built platform, but it’s built strictly for users outside of China. The Chinese version of TikTok is Douyin. You could’ve googled this yourself in the time it took you to write this comment.
Why? Tiktok is availabe in multiple countries with completely different language, culture and laws so why not China? Why have a different version of the app specifically for china?
I’m curious, what does this line of questioning have to do with my original comment?
Because censorship lmao
Uhhh, not exactly regular people. From what I’ve seen from the Rednote, at least my feed is wealthy upper-middle or upper class, while the Americans are from low to middle class.
not what I see in my feed, might depend on the interests you picked and whom you followed, etc
That’s because via GDP those two are at the same level even though they are different levels in their own country.
Sorry for being pedantic, but those foldable work rulers are exactly 2 m long (at least in MetricLandia), which is, incidentally, the span of IQ values (0-200).
So yeah, it literally can be mapped one-to-one to a (common type of) ruler.
200cm, the american one is up to 80 inches 😁
It’s honestly very wholesome to see this kind of interaction. On top of cute moments like Chinese users telling the new US users that they are their “spies,” seeing a lot of blatant myth dispelling surrounding the PRC is great to help tear down the Red Scare.
tbf the people who will download this app are not scared by China in the first place
I was told that I was a spy in RL. Why would a European person learn Chinese? Clearly spy.
Lmao
Kek even
They could, but they dont want to.
The ban discussion originated during the 2020 election when Trump didn’t like the information being spread there as he thought it aligned more with left wing policies. So he wanted it banned. People kept pushing the “it’s bad for kids” bullshit to keep it rolling until it finally went into effect. The Democrats didn’t try to stop it, and the people voted back in the person who wanted it banned. So effectively, they did vote for it in a way.
Trump wanted the ban when he was in office, Biden actually did the ban when he was in office.
Who could I have voted for to keep it from being banned?
Votes:
R- 186 FOR 25 AGAINST
D- 174 FOR 33 AGAINST
A veto is over road by 2/3 vote in Congress… Meaning NO president could have vetod it. So yes I place it on the person who started the process and all of those who voted for it in the house/ Senate.
Clearly meaning that Biden did not “do the ban” But don’t let facts get in the way of a good story
Don’t change the subject, since the ban discussion originated in 2020 who could I have voted for to stop it from happening?
Everyone on my ballot, both republican and democrat all support the ban
Change the subject? You just said Biden could have vetod it and I gave you the facts that he could not have done shit about it. What mental gymnastics is that shit. Also congress who made it impossible to override is voted in every 2 years. So being that there have been 2 votes for Congress since 2020 that you ask of, you could have voted to replace the entire house twice since then.
you could have voted to replace the entire house twice since then.
Replace with who? Everyone on my ballot was for the ban
(edit: also I never said Biden could have vetoed it, I just said that he did the ban, because he signed it and has been publicly in favor of it)
Everyone on your ballot was for the ban and they were people trying to represent you. Either that means you have an opinion differing from the majority of the population in your area, or the people in your area need to find new candidates. I know in my area I am vastly different than what the majority wants. Shit, every person at my work wanted the ban. Coworker was yelling about how much he hates anyone against Trump and that he’s glad they are banning Tik Tok. He listens to far right propaganda on the radio daily that’s anti trans, anti immigrants, and I hear them claiming that all of the positions he is filling are their by merit, and that none of the positions Democrats fill are their by merit, just sponsorship. It’s a broken 2 party system. (Yes, The broken part was redundant)
That’s how democracy works though, either you agree with the majority, tolerate the majority opinion, or you have to work to change the majority opinion, or leave.
I think what many of us are overlooking is that the representatives on average are almost 60, over 60 in the Senate. 60 years olds in average don’t care what 20 year olds want, they think they know what’s best for the 20 year olds future, applying information that may have been valid 30 years ago. Their kids are older than 20, and they already disagree with their opinions.
We need to get the average Congress member age down to 40, senators 45 and force all members older than 65 to retire and take on advisory roles only. A 65 year old does not remember working paycheck to paycheck and what the struggles of everyday Americans are. They only care about how to grow their investments. If their car breaks down, they have enough money to get another, rent a car until its fixed, or simply schedule rides without fear of true disaster. The percentage of Americans that if their car breaks down will lose their jobs, apartments, not be able to afford food, and become homeless which is becoming illegal as well is increasing day after day.
The majority of Americans can not simply take a bus to work, nor walk there. A new car is outrageously out of reach for many people, and used car prices aren’t cheap either.
I wanted to join a rugby team to get more exercise and get in better shape. The sole reason I decided not to was because if I get injured, say break an arm… I would lose my job. And that’s before I say I couldn’t afford the medical bills to go to the doctor anyways.
A 60+ year old Congress member will just call the youth overweight and lazy… but shit. At 35 I know ive worked harder than many I know, but the risk aversion I take to avoid ruin is real. There is no community pool around here, I could never afford one of my own. No sidewalks, and there will be ice everywhere for another month or so… so I’m not going to try bike riding and go over ice on 2 wheels. I should be trying to find more hiking trails… that’s about all I might be able to find that is risk adverse exercise around here.
I get what you mean about the candidates for Congress, it seems they aren’t any great ones. We need to figure out a way to change that.
wow the level of cope in this thread (thankfully not that many tho) arguing over stats - which are probably made up anyway.
some people can’t handle that most humans just wanna be friends regardless of gov politics bs
some people can’t handle that most humans just wanna be friends regardless of gov politics bs
Yes exactly. There are lots of internet weirdos trying to spread culture war nonsense, but if you actually go outside every once in a while, you realize that most people just aren’t like that. I work in a restaurant that has a lot of ukrainian and russian visitors (migrants). At one point, a large group of russians came in for a birthday party, and they asked the owner to put on a playlist of russian music. Like, really cheesy russian pop. After some time, a girl from a smaller table of ukrainians calls me over and complains about the music. I relay it to the owner, and he asks them what they would rather listen to instead. They tell him, and he adds their songs on the queue. The rest of the evening was spent playing and dancing to russian and ukrainian and armenian songs (the owner is armenian, and there were some armenian guests too) and the atmosphere was just generally very chill. Not a single fuck was given about politics that evening.
Now if we could just get rid of all those power-hungry dicks who keep poisoning the human spirit, let it be with Capitalism, Maoism, Neoliberalism and whatnot…
Thing is, the concern about RedNote is completely valid. Even if you strip away any overarching US propaganda or whatever, we know that the CCP does really, really shitty things as well and take heavy, manipulative influence (yes yes, the US and its defacto Feudal Lords owning Meta etc. do so too).
I’m just angry people won’t take their time to look into this whole topic and go with more propaganda-resistant, federated alternatives. Not perfect, but better than a centralized service that can be influenced by either China or the US. Or Russia… or literally anyone. So that we can, in the end, just dance to some nice human music.
yep most genuinely don’t care, people just hate to be a part of something lol
As a civ player, I know a cultural victory when I see one.
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Edit: the removed comment said that the social credit score existed based on this Wikimedia article.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System
In the Wikipedia article itself:
There has been a widespread misconception that China operates a nationwide and unitary social credit “score” based on individuals’ behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low. Media reports in the West have sometimes exaggerated or inaccurately described this concept.[7][8][9] In 2019, the central government voiced dissatisfaction with pilot cities experimenting with social credit scores. It issued guidelines clarifying that citizens could not be punished for having low scores, and that punishments should only be limited to legally defined crimes and civil infractions. As a result, pilot cities either discontinued their point-based systems or restricted them to voluntary participation with no major consequences for having low scores.[7][10] According to a February 2022 report by the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS), a social credit “score” is a myth as there is “no score that dictates citizen’s place in society”.[7]
I have some sources on the child and slave labor, if that helps.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/01/china-carmakers-implicated-uyghur-forced-labor
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/nz0g306v8c/china-tainted-cotton
This last one is ‘Western propaganda’ but is very helpful in identifying the types of products to avoid. It’s near impossible in the US, unless you make your own textiles/clothes or only buy second-hand.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods-print
Your first link is a few paragraphs with no sources whatsoever.
The second one sources Human Rights Watch, who got bodied even on reddit the last time they tried to spread this line. They pretty much source only from Zenz (a far-right anti-semitic christian evangelical who thinks birth conrtrol is genocide).
The third link has Zenz again as its main source.
Its so exhausting to have to debunk the same recycled sources over and over, so here’s a megathread:
https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#whats-going-on-with-the-uyghurs
I appreciate a someone making the effort to debunk but your megathread is absolute garbage, I checked a couple links, got redirected toward twitter and quora threads, so ty but don’t spread misinformation.
I need to check a lot of those links and archive them, because predictably a lot of the ones posted to US run websites like twitter get removed for going against the US-zenz narrative.
Also does the fact that these ppl use twitter or quora automatically mean they’re misinforming people?
Your sources have to come from an US State Dept approved news media like the New York Times.
It certainly doesn’t signal credibility
So all of the nations with a free and open internet are pushing propaganda, and we should just take the firewalled nation of oppressively regulated speech at their word?
No nation should allow the US surveillance arms like Facebook, twitter, instagram, youtube and reddit to operate within their borders. These are US controlled entities that serve to push pro-US foreign policy, and hoover up all global communications.
For example, the most popular social media platform in India, is facebook. The US controls the main communication platform of a country with a population much larger than its own.
Countries should realize what a dangerous threat it is to have US companies control your social media.
It’s funny that we’re arguing this on a platform that’s legal in the US, and banned in China. Is lemmy.ml a US surveillance op too? Are you? Am I?
There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation.
No one is forcing you to use US corporate social media. Everyone needs internet access.
There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation.
There really isn’t a fundamental difference here. US capitalists run the country, control its media, and stand above it’s political system. It’s military/defense apparatus, and police function as their hired goons.
US corporations are the US government. They outright own it. US media is state media with extra steps.
You don’t need to use social media to access the internet.
How many times must I write the difference between corporate controlled platforms and governmentally controlled internet?
dude, the CIA controls everything. Probably since at least the 60’s. Use your brain. Why do you think the most far right and “far left” media agree on the SAME THINGS when it comes to US foreign policy? US media is JUST as free as Chinese media, which is not at all. Read about the twitter leaks. Feds just emailed them to take shit down and they did it.
Yeah? Do a quick search on how to overthrow the government. Can’t do that in China.
No nation has “free and open internet” in reality. Some are just more open about their biases while others try to obfuscate how they censor.
Do you know the difference between the internet and the World Wide Web?
Accessing the dark web is illegal in China, for example. They reduced access to the internet to government regulated websites, who must apply and be approved by the Chinese government to be accessible within the Great Firewall.
https://www.goclickchina.com/insights/the-complete-guide-to-the-great-firewall-of-china-gfoc/
Sure, and in the US companies like Google heavily distort search algorithms to make it so that the vast majority of people see only what’s already approved.
You’re still confusing the internet and the web.
So you don’t like that your point was disproven and are now comparing corporate manipulation of their own services to governmental control of the entire internet?
Get real.
dunno what your talking about ive never been blocked by government mandate only corporate mandates, and I can just vpn around those.
Chinese users use VPNs all the time. Additionally, western countries deliberately distort search results so the most approved sources are front and center.
I’ve been to China. VPN access requires jumping through insane hoops and disguising your traffic as different traffic. Tor is blocked. Most commercial VPNs are IP blocked. HTTPS proxy or HTTP proxy over SSH tunnel gets blocked very quickly due to traffic analysis.
uh obviously? do you not understand the distinction between corporate and government mandates? I can explain it if you need me to because its kind of critical to this whole conversation. and if you do understand the difference, then wtf is your point.
The US government literally just effectively banned a social network through government mandate.
true! of course your hand waving why it was banned and the options they were given. tiktok could have divested from chinese control in the US region they chose not to. in no way has the US government censored information from individuals as a result of that bill. they censured the business operating procedures. two very different and distinct issues when it comes to access to content.
In no way have americans been prevented from accessing the information within tiktok. compare and contrast that with say trying to find tiananmen square information in china.
in fact i’ll help everyone out, here is the ruling
lol “free and open internet” have you not been reading the news the last two decades, or especially the last year? USA has its own set of “great firewalls”, the latest one built against tiktok
wow you have a LOT to learn. I recommend you start at the grayzone on youtube.
Are you aware the channel you’re recommending is blacklisted China?
Way to prove my point. Lol
It really is astounding how much every sinophobes source is inevitably just Wikipedia.
Which in turn its Adrian Zenz 😂
More and more I see them just sending either a duckduckgo search, or the first few links from that search, which is of course always from anglo-supremacist news sources.
To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear. You can talk about Pooh, just not in the way westerners tend to want to.
As for the Social Credit system, the version reported in western media is false and exaggerated. There is a credit system, but it’s largely for businesses and other social entities, not some Orwellian big brother system.
To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear.
Really? Because all sources that I can find trace the origin to Xi’s visit to the Philippines back in 2017.
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2018/11/21/2003704655
It originated as a group picture of Obama as Tigger with Xi as Pooh in 2013, not 2017. Your own sources dispute what you’re saying. What has come from that isn’t a continuation of that trend of group pictures, but a singular insistence of depicting a Chinese man as a yellow bear.
I missed that. Thanks. So does that meme from the west outweigh Xi’s entire Philippino welcoming and barrage of memes, prompting the banning of the word Pooh in Chinese media, justify your claim that it’s overwhelmingly Westerners?
“Pooh” is not banned in China. Taking down racist attacks against Xi happend prior to the visit to the Phillipines, read your own articles. Some users used it in the Phillipines to protest Xi because the racist caricatures were taken down, which was a western thing.
You evaded the question with semantics. Is one meme ‘overwhelmingly’ more than a nation of Philippinos?
I didn’t evade anything, you’ve been fundamentally wrong about reality several times. Secondly, it wasn’t “the nation of the Philippines,” it was some users, and the fact that the yellow bear caricature is overwhelmingly western does not mean non-western users don’t exist.
You’re going to massive lengths to defend depicting a chinese man as a yellow bear.
Did you read your own link, or just grab the headline from a google search and call it “good enough?”
It’s true that, building on earlier initiatives, China’s State Council published a road map in 2014 to establish a far-reaching “social credit” system by 2020. The concept of social credit (shehui xinyong) is not defined in the increasing array of national documents governing the system, but its essence is compliance with legally prescribed social and economic obligations and performing contractual commitments. Composed of a patchwork of diverse information collection and publicity systems established by various state authorities at different levels of government, the system’s main goal is to improve governance and market order in a country still beset by rampant fraud and counterfeiting.
Under the system, government agencies compile and share across departments, regions, and sectors, and with the public, data on compliance with specified industry or sectoral laws, regulations, and agreements by individuals, companies, social organizations, government departments, and the judiciary. Serious offenders may be placed on blacklists published on an integrated national platform called Credit China and subjected to a range of government-imposed inconveniences and exclusions. These are often enforced by multiple agencies pursuant to joint punishment agreements covering such sectors as taxation, the environment, transportation, e-commerce, food safety, and foreign economic cooperation, as well as failing to carry out court judgments.
These punishments are intended to incentivize legal and regulatory compliance under the often-repeated slogan of “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.” Conversely, “red lists” of the trustworthy are also published and accessed nationally through Credit China.
Yes, I have. Have you read beyond that point? The West distorts the scope and nature of the credit system to ludicrous degrees, nobody claims that there’s no such thing.
It’s besides the point how it is talked about. The Second screenshot literally says “Social credit. We don’t have this at all” and your link very much proves that they do. Therefore propaganda in my eyes.
They very much have a credit score that is not anywhere comparable to the Orwellian depiction in western media, and furthermore the credit system is largely for businesses, not individuals. The western depiction simply does not exist.
The western depiction simply does not exist.
I can and will not argue this point since I lack the proper knowledge on the subject.
We all agree on the fact that a system exists.
From the post:
“Social credit. We don’t have this at all” is a lie. Again, I am not saying anything about how to system works or how it is preceived. I am saying that it exists and the post claimed it does not, nothing else.
That makes it propaganda to me.
TL;DR:
- The post claims that something that exists does not. This is a fact.
- I believe this to be propaganda in some form. This is an opinion.
It’s overwhelmingly clear that you need to do more legwork to prove that that user genuinely thinks there is no credit score, and is not directly responding to the Orwellian version. This is clearly taking a dogmatic reading of one sentence to come up with the absurd claim that Chinese citizens believe that publicly stated policy doesn’t actually exist.
I read the whole article, as it went on to describe more of what has been reported as having a “social credit score”, and gave more details about how it’s administered.
Basically, the headline is “no, it’s not at all what you’ve heard”, and then the article goes on to describe exactly what has been reported in the US. I’m not sure your point about “there’s no credit score that is administered by the Chinese government with a mechanism for blacklisting you and restricting you everywhere” is well-supported by an article that describes a credit score that is administered by the Chinese government that operates blacklists that are enforced under the slogan “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.”
If that’s not actually how it works, then you need to provide a credible source that proves that’s not how it works. Providing a source that reports that yes, that’s exactly how it works doesn’t serve your argument. And “well but the West is totally lying, maaan” isn’t proof; it’s an unverified claim by a random internet commenter.
No, it does not describe “exactly as what the western media depicted.” The west reported utterly nonsense and unfounded ideas of facial recognition and tracking, among other ludicrous ideas out of a necessity to sensationalize.
bro is a fed or just an average american who can’t read
Wikipedia
Can you site a source more credible than a crowd sourced encyclopedia run by Americans
*feds. and the criteria for a credible source for them as they need to be western-aligned media. it’s a complete joke.
Can you provide evidence for that claim?
imagine making social media so bad your own citizens actively procure your biggest rival’s networks.
I think there’s a simple desire to move to pastures new. “Use Instagrmam or Youtube Shorts or Snapchat” No, we’ve been there and done that.
Imagine allowing citizens to be so free that they can go to your biggest rival’s social media to read narratives favouring them, get influenced by rival propaganda, and then shit you on your percieved weak points.
It’s never too late to discard your patriotism to a state that doesn’t give a fuck about you. You don’t owe it your allegiance, be it Burgerland or India or whichever shitty capitalist state.
Patritoism?
I suppose it is easy to be patriotic to a state which hides even publicly known events from its plebs.Try to get opinion of the Chinese on RedNote about Uyguirs and Teinman Square. I’ll wait.
Tiananmen square is one of the most popular places in China, it’d be like saying Times square in new york city. You’re referring to what they call the june 4th incident, and you can absolutely talk about it on chinese social media.
That’s actually a cool website. Thanks.
EDIT : Apparently linked by the other commenter, but your work. Thanks.
Lol, that’s the worst attempts at spelling Tienanmen Square and Uyghurs I’ve seen yet, and I’ve seen a lot.
Thanks for sharing.
This paints “massacre” as retaliation against CIA sponsered armed factions. Looks very much like what happened in Bangladesh recently, but unlike China CIA succeeded in Bangladesh.No doubt the US will keep trying. It’s always working to regime change states that it can’t sufficiently control.
dont the uyghur thing get proven false time and time again?
videos and photos inevitably leak of shit like this but theres nothing credible to support a genocide happening in china… why do people believe this?
Few things blew my mind even though I’ve been a big fan of Chinese economic and political policy for a while
They actually really like Soviet Culture, the marching soldiers and flags etc. Soviet rock like Kino and the like is very popular!
They’re casually Marxist, its not something they have to fight to learn about so socialism is a casual existence for them. I figured the youth would be “too cool or hip” but doesn’t seem to be the case
They’re very similar as gamers, they really like shooters like battlefield and cs go. I assume their MMOs are different but I’m asking about that
It truly is a massive cultural exchange the likes of which have never been seen before. I’m trying to find out if they grew up on the same games, Morrowind Deus Ex Thief Ultima Online D&D etc
Oh yeah they really like Soviet culture. My first post on there is of some Soviet artwork and it got 1.3k likes, on a brand new account. Wouldn’t see that happening on Insta or Xitter.
Knowledge will break the chains of slavery!
Norway actually does.
Source: Am norwegiam. Am parent.In the US? Lol, no.
Source: I work with a bunch of Texans.Belgium: 4 months, better than nothing I guess
If only…
Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: MisinformationTruths you find inconvenient are not misinformation, reporter.
I still don’t believe the TEMU bit though
I like how one person said they don’t use child labour because they are inefficient. If they were efficient though …
I totally believe child labour is inefficient.
I also believe it’s cheap and capitalism doesn’t care.
Honestly, I don’t even believe it’s inefficient. There’s plenty of documented/recorded evidence of child labor around the world. Sometimes, all you really need is a pair of hands, and kids are physically capable of doing it. Countries with shitty labor laws are ripe with child labor abuse.
True. Kids were sent up chimneys to clean because it was more efficient.
TBH I expect it to be the same as everywhere where there are a lot of people with imperfect oversight.
There is going to be some children working just like in the southern US.
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You believe the rest lol? I mean it can be true but its just made up internet memes.