Just putting this here cause I found it a good overview of a pretty confusing situation I had no prior knowledge about

  • @porl@lemmy.world
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    151 year ago

    I absolutely love Hyprland but have no respect for Vaxry beyond his coding ability.

    I really hope someone starts a good fork of it, I haven’t found another wm I like as much but I hate to be seen as supporting that awful person.

    • Rustmilian
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      1 year ago

      It’s FOSS, just don’t donate to the project or promote it and keep using it anyway. That’s the beauty of FOSS, the devs dumb opinions shouldn’t effect your personal use of quality tools. Imagine if you stopped using hammers just because “communism”, it’d be a pretty stupid self inflicted inconvenience.
      If the project itself goes to shit and he starts using it to push his stupid agenda, then abandon it. But until then it’s completely understandable to keep using it for your personal workflow. Everyone uses GNU utilits, that doesn’t mean we agree with everything Richard Stallmen has ever said.
      Hopefully Vaxry will learn and clean up his act.

  • daddyjones
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    121 year ago

    Does this have any impact on the future viability of Hyprland as a project? Should it affect (on a technical level) whether users should start using Hyprland if they don’t already?

    I literally installed it for the first time yesterday to take a look, but don’t want to get invested in something that may fizzle out…

    • @intrepid@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      I have seen people describing the code base to be ugly. However, the project itself looks like it will sustain. But don’t go to their discord server for support if you belong to any sort of minority group.

    • @nivenkos@lemmy.world
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      -121 year ago

      American culture warriors have decided that their ideology is more important - you see this a lot where their ideology’s goal becomes the “greater cause” worth sacrificing the mission: e.g. in journalism.

      • @gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
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        141 year ago

        Oh those dang culture warriors, amiright. *shakes fist*

        Unlike say you, who would never post an article about how NPR isn’t right-wing enough (lol) on a Linux forum.

      • Old_Geezer
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        -111 year ago

        Totally agree. Started with the Me-Too movement where we saw people accused and convicted without due process. It seemed to spin out of the Jian Gnomeshi acquittal.

    • @priapus@sh.itjust.works
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      121 year ago

      4Chan is obv worse, as was said in the video, but the discord can be pretty obnoxious. Just a lot of humor you’d expect from the average middle-schooler.

  • @penquin@lemm.ee
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    71 year ago

    It always baffles me why some people can’t just fucking live and let live. If someone doesn’t appreciate your “joke”, then it should be a very clear indicator that you need to STFU, otherwise, it’s obvious you’re a dickhead.

  • @fl42v@lemmy.ml
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    51 year ago

    Yeah, whatever. If you don’t like the community, you leave it. Or make your own unofficial community with blackjack and hookers. As simple as that.

    • @intrepid@lemmy.ca
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      221 year ago

      That’s a very low effort way of underplaying the effect of these communities on the broader FOSS communities. There is a good reason why most FOSS developers/maintainers prefer to keep their personal and unrelated politics away from their project communities. For one, unchecked bigotry in isolated communities can turn bad for the general public - for example, 4chan, kiwifarms, etc. I have heard from more than one source that community engages in hate speech and brigading against people outside the communtiy - one example is visible in this video itself. This is why laws specifying limitation to free speech exists.

      Now, even if you neglect the brigading, there is still the problem of support and contribution. Hyprland is a widely used project. Many end users and developers are going to stumble into the discord server either seeking support or with intent to contribute. If they belong to any minority group, they might inadvertently expose themselves to bigotry, bullying and harassment. Now you may be compelled to label this as hyperbole and fearmongering. But this is well known, highly underplayed problem in FOSS communities with numerous examples. There are so many cases where women stopped FOSS contributions because they felt insulted and harassed. This problem is why CoCs exist in the first place.

      Nobody can force others to follow CoCs. But as Brodie says, it has become very important for end users to evaluate the projects they use - to see if it is a community they want to ever interact with. Similarly, distros need to decide if they want to expose their users to such a community.

    • TXL
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      71 year ago

      But it was the blackjack and hookers that got us into this in the first place.

  • @reddithalation@sopuli.xyz
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    41 year ago

    why do we need to drop hyprland over the lead dev’s views, they are pretty bad, but its an open source project, and I joined the discord server and didn’t immediately see any issues. vaxry even made a point of saying that they will accept PRs as long as they are good quality, regardless of personal views.

    • z3rOR0ne
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      1 year ago

      I honestly, but respectfully, disagree.

      Brodie has been playing the apologist lately, and finding himself on the defensive when Nicco criticized Brodie for giving a floor to Lunduk, who is another example of a toxic individual within the Linux community. Brodie basically has played the card , “I’ll hear out anybody because it’s important to get both sides of the story.”

      But imho it shows he lacks spine to take a real stand. I get why, he needs to retain his audience which is a mix of people from different political and social backgrounds. I just don’t respect it.

      This latest video of his shows exactly his own reasoning. He says something along the lines of, if you take a position, you’re going to lose a lot of your audience. He was talking specifically about the FDO iirc, but he might as well have been talking about himself.

      I do have some sympathy for Brodie, I’ve been following him from almost his first video when he was still in Uni showing off his BSPWM configs, etc. And I don’t think he ever thought his channel would become politicized nor do I think he ever wanted to address his own political leanings on his channel. But in my own life I’ve just noticed you can’t avoid that, even in a public platform. Everything is political, and if you don’t show people who you stand with, (like solidly, on one side or the other, you CANNOT have it both ways) then you just are saying you’ll sit on the sidelines while the people you’re supposedly advocating for (the Linux community) burn from within.

      Until he’s willing to have Danielle Fore (Trans Developer on the Elementary OS Distro) on his Tech Over Tea Podcast, I’m going to say he’s giving a lot more attention and positive exposure to toxic people than not. And he’s not exactly actually on Both Sides, like he wants us all to believe.

      • @drwankingstein@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        61 year ago

        But imho it shows he lacks spine to take a real stand. I get why, he needs to retain his audience which is a mix of people from different political and social backgrounds. I just don’t respect it.

        I really don’t think he should take a stand, This is why I actually like him a lot more then pretty much any other linux youtuber. With him I don’t need to worry about retarded distro takes, stupid drama takes. Just information.

        Until he’s willing to have Danielle Fore (Trans Developer on the Elementary OS Distro) on his Tech Over Tea Podcast, I’m going to say he’s giving a lot more attention and positive exposure to toxic people than not. And he’s not exactly actually on Both Sides, like he wants us all to believe.

        Im not sure who that is, Was there some kind of drama involved here? It never made it across my feed personally and being honest, due to my recent findings of new time, I’m partially suffering terminally online syndrome. Not to sound demeaning, but I genuinely have no idea who Danielle Fore is outside of the small tidbit you just brought up. Can you tell me more about them?

        • z3rOR0ne
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          1 year ago

          I really don’t think he should take a stand, This is why I actually like him a lot more then pretty much any other linux youtuber. With him I don’t need to worry about removed distro takes, stupid drama takes. Just information.

          That’s fair. I just don’t see this as stupid drama. If someone is being a hateful bigot, and that is not an opinion it is simply a fact here, then that is the information Brodie should report, using rhetoric that reflects that. From my point of view, Brodie is either avoiding the certain left leaning politics because he’s actually right wing, or he’s too afraid to admit he’s left wing because he’ll lose a good chunk of his audience. Either way he’s lost my respect.

          Im not sure who that is, Was there some kind of drama involved here? It never made it across my feed personally and being honest, due to my recent findings of new time, I’m partially suffering terminally online syndrome. Not to sound demeaning, but I genuinely have no idea who Danielle Fore is outside of the small tidbit you just brought up. Can you tell me more about them?

          Danielle Fore is a lead UX/UI developer on the Elementary OS Distro who has documented her transition on Mastodon. She fields both technical and sociopolitical questions on her Mastodon account. She recently received some attention due to SwitchedToLinux spouting anti Trans rhetoric on his channel specifically referencing her, with both Trafotin and Nicco responding very negatively against SwitchedToLinux for that.

          Her technical chops are up there with the best of them, especially when you consider ElementaryOS being known for their clean UX/UI design. If Brodie wants to truly take the mantle of an unbiased information only Linux influencer, then he should be covering the facts across the board, including her or at least someone who can speak from experience on the more than occasional occurrences of misogyny and transphobia that crops up in the Linux community.

          Unlike Trafotin and Nicco, Brodie has chosen to handwave away this serious problem as drama while continuing to give a platform to those that are the toxic perpetrators of said rhetoric. All I ask is where is he platforming those who offer up counterarguments? People who are going to call it out for the toxicity it is? No? Nobody… Guess that speaks to the company he’s willing to keep and the company he’s not willing to. And honestly that doesn’t appear to be unbiased and willing to hear both sides. And it’s not even just presenting the facts. It’s hand picking them.

  • @woelkchen@lemmy.world
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    11 year ago

    Who is that guy and why would he have the authority to demand a talk? From the looks of the thumbnail alone he seems to be super full of himself.

  • 𝘋𝘪𝘳𝘬
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    -281 year ago

    Code of Conduct enforcement team

    Yeah. This sounds like a truly free and open thing.

    • Pussista
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      261 year ago

      Also called moderators elsewhere. Without those, the internet would be unusable for anyone not a cishet white Christian fundamentalist.

        • @eskimofry@lemmy.world
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          -21 year ago

          You’re trying to argue reality is the same for everyone. But as a CisHet Guy It’s kind of obvious I get treated better than women and it just gets worse from Woman to then any of the LBTQIA+ community.

          I am not even white and christian and I can tell the difference. Please don’t try to argue about it being equally bad for everyone if moderation was taken away.

          • @taladar@sh.itjust.works
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            91 year ago

            No, I am trying to argue that moderators are relevant long before any of that (discrimination based on race, religion, gender,…) even starts to matter.

        • Pussista
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          -71 year ago

          Depends on your perspective I guess. The way I see it: Moderators are (partially) there to limit the spread of hate so if you are a hate spreader, you would thrive without moderation, but if you are a hate receiver, you’re better off when moderation rules are enforced.

          • @taladar@sh.itjust.works
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            131 year ago

            Without moderators most spaces would be completely unusable due to spammers, trolls and others whose behavior and motivations have very little to do with their sexuality, politics, their skin tone or their religion.

            • Pussista
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              11 year ago

              That’s true and is the reason why I said “moderators are (partially) there …”.

            • @eskimofry@lemmy.world
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              01 year ago

              You’re trying to dismiss an assertion by submitting a superset of the assertion. Which is usually done to belittle or ignore the orginal point in the argument, which is that a majoirty of those pushing back against CoC also romanticize the old boys group of experts.

              • @taladar@sh.itjust.works
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                51 year ago

                The original point was to argue for CoC which is fine and can be done without antagonizing people with the tired old “white cis-het,…” nonsense in this context.

      • 𝘋𝘪𝘳𝘬
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        -81 year ago

        Moderation of illegal/forbidden content is not equal to enforcing arbitrary soft-skill based rules.

        • @gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
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          51 year ago

          You think being a bigot is a skill issue do you? Like everyone deep down is just a bigot (self-inferred I assume?), and some people just have the social skills to hide that better? Have you tried not being a bigot instead of just hiding it?

          • 𝘋𝘪𝘳𝘬
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            -11 year ago

            Like everyone deep down is just a bigot (self-inferred I assume?), and some people just have the social skills to hide that better

            Basically this. Yes. This is how socialization works. This is also how a society works.

            I have no problem with Vaxry since I don’t know him personally. I don’t think we could be friends, based on what he says online. But to me this is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to using the software he maintains.

        • Rustmilian
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          1 year ago

          If you walk into a job interview and they find your tweets of you saying the nword over and over, and you don’t get the job, that’s a you problem. Nobody wants to work with people who’ll bring negative PR.

          • 𝘋𝘪𝘳𝘬
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            -61 year ago

            This is true. But iuf they enforce a rule that I have to wear a frog hat with googly eyes at home they can kindly fuck off, though.

            • Rustmilian
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              1 year ago

              That’s not what’s happening here. They are barring him from participating in their project, he can still say whatever the fuck he wants on his own project. They just don’t want to work with him.

              • 𝘋𝘪𝘳𝘬
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                21 year ago

                Oh, okay. Yeah. If it’s their project they can do whatever they want.

                I just remembered the issue as they want to enforce their policies on the Hyprland community.

                • Rustmilian
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                  31 year ago

                  That’s the way Vaxry spun it to try making them look bad while he downplays his own behavior and malpractice. Basically he just lied and spread misinformation, he really needs to get his act together if he ever wants to work with them again.

    • @prunerye@slrpnk.net
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      -11 year ago

      This is a popular opinion outside of Lemmy. You won’t find many lowercase “l” libertarians here though.