If she is saying this at this point it feels like she feels that he is neglecting her to play video games
So the line ‘While you are obviously more important to me than some silly games’ is not obvious at all, to the point where she feels like she is not important to him at all and thus worth ending the relationship over (since there is effectively no relationship)
In fact I’d argue this is a complete strawman of a meme and designed entirely just to make 1 person look bad and the other feel smug and superior 🤓
It seems like you’ve never had a partner who tries to totally monopolize your time, and treats any time not spent focused on them as neglect. I can assure you this is no straw man.
Literally sitting on the same couch with her leaning on me, I’m reading a book and she is watching tv; “I don’t feel like we spend any time together anymore.”
So!
You might have some neurodivergence. I was diagnosed with ADHD (Inattentive-Moderate) and I recognise this situation.
You are happy and fulfilled by ‘parallel play’ where you are with someone but you are each doing your own thing.
It sounds like your partner is asking for dedicated quality time. With active interaction.
So here’s what you do: Buy LEGO.
Nothing major (at first). The Botanical sets are lovely. Then you pick an evening, put on some background music and sit across from each other building your own set and talking about stupid garbage.
Once you’re done, order some food in and cuddle on the couch with a comfy movie. (WALL-E, Spirited Away, Hot Fuzz. Something like that).Maybe, if you’re a giga-chad, you sneak some fancy dessert into the house earlier in the day.
Or… the partner could use their words, and describe, clearly, what qualifies as ‘spending time together’.
Maybe they could do as you’ve done, and suggest some particular activities, that they would enjoy.
No one in a two party relationship needs to be neurodivergent… for two people to have different attachment styles, love languages, etc.
Also, is it up to member one of the relationship to… figure out what member two … wants?
Why is member two not responsible for understanding themself to the point they can describe what they want in a meaningfully precise way?
Is… member two… cognitively impaired?
Too shy to … communicate?
Then they shouldn’t be in a relationship.
My ex wife did this. Also, didnt allow me to go to bed until she was ready, which meant that I’d be going to bed at 2 am every night, which is terrible when you have to wake up at 4 to be at work by 5:30 every morning.
Suffice to say in reality there would be context to indicate who in that partnership would be the unreasonable one. As presented, no way to know if he gamed once in a while and she is annoyed because she is disdainful of the activity, or if he is marathon gaming and never engaging with her.
I took it as a non serious joke riffing of a common meme.
See and I took it as the same neurospicy toxic culture that seems to be growing from all these young men that are just generally immature and angry.
Though god forbid you highlight that because many of them will rail back because they have all the time in the world because they’re all losers and some of them are mods and will delete your comments anyways.
Literally none of this is about neurodivergece.
Its about at least one partner being terrible at communicating their actual wants and needs and boundaries… then growing resentful… then issuing a total ultimatum.
A scenario like this can only happen if at least one person is terrible at telling their partner want they want and need and expect out of the relationship, out of the other person.
It can be that both are terrible at communicating, but it has to be at least one, the ultimatum issuer.
Take memes seriously and get into arguments on the internet!
That is quite literally 90% of what I’m here for.
You’re right - it may feel obvious to him but not her. But saying “sometimes I feel neglected, let’s figure out how to fix that” is much healthier than saying “stop or I’ll leave”
No, it’s not.
I’ve had women bring this up to me. I was not neglecting them. They simple HATED video games and thought they were awful and terrible. They were a ‘waste of time’. Meanwhile her scrolling on her phone hours a day is not.
Often it’s because the other person is insecure and controlling and has double standards.
It is a strawman but giving an ultimatum is also a nuclear option in a relationship and it’s over when the other person said “it’s me or…”, that is the last argument of a failed relationship. Does the first person have an unhealthy habit that they are unwilling to change, possibly, but if you’re trying to change someone to fit your wants and needs then you’re not ever going to be in a healthy relationship.
Maybe you or they change or develop a new habit during along relationship, well then everyone has communicate in a healthy manner and then there’s possiblity of breaking off the relationship.
But I’ve seen this scenario more than once where the partner went straight for the ultimatum and the obvious defense to me would be to not engage or deflect because that’s a Kobayashi Maru.
Its not a strawman.
I personally know a fair number of guys that have had nearly this exact interchange.
With the addition of… after the ‘well im displeased by the ultimatum, that you would do that’… then the woman begins screaming and becomes physically violent, destroying property, assault, etc.
Roughly 2/3 as many men are victims of female domestic violence as women are victims men.
Its… pretty common actually.
Even reasonable needs typically only go straight to an ultimatum when the person giving it understands on some level that it’s not something the other person will give easily or happily.
For example my ex decided polyamory wasn’t working for her, but I thrived in it in a way I hadn’t in monogamy. I can’t imagine she didn’t understand on some level that it was an irreconcilable difference.
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The meme is a bit wordy, but uh no, plently of people in relationships are not great at communicating, setting clear expectations and boundaries…
But issuing an ultimatum is a power move, that if acquiesed to, sets a precedent where that can be done for anything. This is antithetical to a relationship where each person respects the other one. After an ultimatum like this, such mutual respect is impossible going forward.
The only correct choice, for both people, is that if an ultimatum like this is issued, or one person genuinely thinks they have no other option?
You two are done.
You do not work as a couple, wrap it up.
Instructions unclear.
Married a woman who plays video games with me.
My wife is currently breeding an army of factory workers for me in exchange for a ton of ammo and raw materials in Palworld.
The last two words of that sentence are the most important ones.
“…in Palworld” is the new “…in Minecraft”
*in Rimworld
If you squint a little the rest of the description does apply to the real world…
Hot
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Some of us have dated dozens of people and never met one what enjoys or is OK with video games.
women who enjoy video games are not exactly abundant.
I’m not sure what your point is? Ive dated people who didnt like video games too.
that you are lucky and statistically that isn’t an option for most folks.
I’d love to date a woman who mountain bikes. The ratio of men to women in mountain biking is about 100 to 1, far worse than video games. my chances of finding a lady who wants to do that with me is astonishingly low.
however what is very common, is for meet a woman who lectures me on how stupid and dangerous and dumb mountain biking is and that i should stop doing it. that’s like 1/4 ladies I meet.
Given the ratio you’ve listed, it should be extremely easy to find women into mountain biking. Though I suspect you meant the inverse of what you said.
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It’s not fine. and it is a pandemic, due to the hyper fueled social media gender war bullshit that so many single people consume. it’s also escalating. 10 years ago nobody was, on a first date, telling me in my face what a piece of shit I was to my face for not having a high enough salary for them, when my salary is higher than theirs, now that’s like every 4th woman I meet, and pretty much every other woman i meet demands to know my ‘stats’ off the bat.
it is not a small subset of women at all, it’s the vast majority of dating profiles I see who loudly and proudly declare their sexist double standards and abusive behaviors. men, at least, get called out and socially punished for it, women, get celebrated and their victims get punished and called out. women’s abuse and violence towards men is considered ‘corrective’ or ‘justice’. this morning I must have swiped left like 30 times alone, simple due to toxic sexist weird shit on profiles.
the small subset is the women who aren’t toxic, who actually take accountability for their emotions and their actions, and actually communicate with their partners. and who have realistic expectations for their lives, rather than being perpetually embittered their life isn’t a social media reel. and they aren’t on the dating market because they are largely coupled up. I meet many nice women at events this way, but they are never single. The single ones are the ones who are in the corner, and act with hostility and snide remarks if you try to interact with them, so you leave them alone.
in the past 5 years I’ve only had like 1-2 normal nice dates (who were not american btw), the majority were one flavor of hostile and angry or another, who absolutely blamed me or other men for their ‘unhappiness’, which really is a product of their their own poor choices and shallow pursuits. But you can’t call them out, so you just sit there, listen to them rant, and say ‘thanks, hope you find someone nice’ and then they scream at you or sometimes attempt to hit or throw something at you. because HOW DARE YOU REJECT THEM, they are suppose to reject you you worthless man!
That said, 10-15 years ago, the majority of my dates were nice and normal folks. But that was also before social media warped everyone’s brains. Things didn’t used to be like this, but now everyone is so drugged up on rage and hostility and hate, well that’s all they can see in the world and all they bring to it. And I, for one, want nothing to do with that shit.
“most folks” = “me anecdotally”
k
Yeah, that sucks, man. I mean, it is a dangerous hobby, my nephew is really into mountain biking and I keep hearing about his hilarious but serious injuries.
However, if you love it, like you clearly do, that’s just part of the game. It’s not surprising that you have trouble finding a gf who can be okay with that part, and ideally you would indeed want someone who you can worry about equally because she keeps falling off mountains and breaking ribs or getting concussions or whatever.
The answer to most ultimatums is no. It’s one thing if it’s something you need to change and is reasonable to demand, but even then by the time it hits an ultimatum the relationship is often in a position where the damage runs deep.
I’ve ended an engagement over an ultimatum and it’s one of the best decisions I’ve made
What blows my mind, is everytime I was issued one of these… it was from a person who was objectively like way worse or had way bigger issues than I did.
Like, yeah I have to stop playing video games, but you have to pay off your $50,000 in credit card debt.
And the reply was, no, you have to quit video games, so you can work more, and make more money and pay off my debt for me.
And naturally friends/family took her side, because I have the penis and it’s my job to pay off her debts, or some bullshit.
anyway, good news is i’m single and financially secure, and happy, instead of together with someone being broke and miserable all the time and doesn’t allow me to have any joy on my own.
It sounds like you dodged a serious bullet there. I don’t know many people who started their marriages with huge debt who are out of debt or living happily at this point. Most of them are divorced. The smart ones kept enough paperwork to prove their spouses came into the marriage with debt, so they should not be held jointly responsible for it.
Yeah well, according to the women I meet, it just makes me a selfish horrible lazy asshole.
Almost every serious relationship I have had has ended because I was unwilling to pay off debt for my girlfriend. And they also all lied about it and pretended they had no debt. But in their minds, I was the bad person in the relationship…
But true that I am not stupid enough to have married any of them, or gotten them pregnant. One of them tried to get pregnant to entrap me, that was fun! Went off her birth control without telling me and then confessed one night when she was drunk.
And now I meet a lot of ladies who have like 10 million in the bank who think I’m also a lazy piece of shit because I can’t afford to drop 25K on a weekend getaway like they can. But I guess they aren’t in debt, so progress?
either way I continue to have my mind blown how awful and entitled people are when it comes to relationships and naively cling to my idea that we’re supposed to be equal partners who improve each others lives… but it seems that is not a popular mindset these days.
Them: You have to stop playing video games, they’re a waste of money and time and take up too much space
Me: Ok, then you stop collecting funkos
“You need to stop playing video games”
Normal people: says the person that is on Instagram and TikTok for eight hours a day?
I don’t even mind the hours on tiktok… what bothers me is the fact they become depressed and anxious because of it, because they are constantly comparing themselves to the lifestyles of millionaire influencers and thinking that is how they should be living their life or their life isn’t worth living…
almost every major big influencer/streamer comes from wealth, and pretends like they worked to get where they are… no they started there, and just decided to advertise it so they could con poor people into giving them more money, who want to live vicariously through them.
and every stupid streamer plays up that they are ‘just a normal person’. They almost never are. The ones that are normal people… basically live in shitty houses in the middle of no where, they aren’t traveling the globe.
THANK YOU. So glad to be free of that judgment and eating my cat food in peace.
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I appreciate that. Looking back, it really was disgusting that she tried to use “love” as an excuse to try to force me to change my damn diet!?!?
At the time, I was too caught up in raising our family to see her subtle abuses. So when she’d refuse my physical affection over so-called “cat food breath,” I used to really take it to heart. For a long time, I’d honestly almost convinced myself that I really was the problem, somehow.
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Relationships built on ultimatums are very abusive. You’re forcing someone to do something they don’t want to do to fit your expectations.
If you feel like your only recourse to get what you want is to make an ultimatum, maybe it’s already time to move on.
It depends on the more on what is at stake more than just the ultimatum. Get sober or get out is very different than stop your hobby or get out. No matter how you try to get someone to give up their running club, it’s probably an abusive move.
You either never cheat on me or this relationship is over.
It doesn’t matter though, you’re still a massive asshole in the other person’s mind.
Even if it’s objectively something positive, like stopping drinking or other destructive behaviors.
People have to want to change themselves, if they don’t, you’re just being a dick. It’s very different if your partner wants to change habits and lifestyle and asks for your assistance.
It’s part of setting boundaries and letting someone know that they exist. You aren’t being a dick of someone chooses meth over a relationship. No one is entitled to a relationship, there are plenty of acceptable reasons that could be ultimatums to end a relationship.
the methhead thinks you’re a dick though.
ask any of my exes and they will tell you what an awful abusive piece of shit I was, for not ‘fixing’ their addiction issues for them and ‘judging’ or ‘punishing’ them for it. and plenty of their girlfriends 100% took their side.
people are not rational and objective when it comes to relationships when they are in them. They hardly ever look back and go ‘gee that guy who dumped me for my meth problem, he was so great and I was the shitty person in that situation’.
Every relationship is built on ultimatums. Such a weird opinion to say it’s abusive. I’m leaving if my partner cheats, picks up a drug habit, or spends all of our money, for instance.
I think there’s a difference between a hard boundary and an ultimatum. The former exists before it needs to be said, and the latter is a “do/stop this or the relationship is over”. It’s often associated with existing relationship issues or a sudden change in the relationship.
It’s also associated with an expectation that one gets their way. Rather than approaching as a conversation about “are we still compatible” it becomes a cudgel. When I rejected my ex’s ultimatum it resulted in her begging me to change my answer and later yelling at me about my being willing to end the relationship.
yep, been there. I had one ex crash out at me 6 months later, because they found out I had found someone else… while they were also dating someone else. Like we broke up in Sept than one random day in March I had multiple ranting voicemails that I woke up to one day about how I ‘betrayed’ her and how I had ‘clearly never loved her’.
She was the one that initiated the breakup over an ultimatum, but her ‘plan’ was that I would come crawling back to her or something. Because it’s only True Love if you’re completely broken and subordinate to the other person, including abuse.
There’s a difference between ultimatums and boundaries
There really isn’t. You’re just adding a connotative difference if it’s a socially acceptable reason.
Boundaries are healthy limits set to protect oneself, while ultimatums are demands that pressure others to change, often with a threat.
Boundaries respect both parties. Ultimatums prioritize one’s own needs.
Using the meme as an example, “if you don’t stop playing video games I’m leaving” is an ultimatum, putting herself first. It neglects the fact that he enjoys playing video games, and forces him to choose between her or his hobbies.
“I feel neglected when you play video games so much instead of spending time with me, what can we do to find something that works for both of us. If we can’t find a solution, I worry about the sustainability of our relationship” would express her feelings, identify his behavior that is causing those feelings, and respect the fact that his hobbies are important to him and give him space to continue enjoying them. And the boundary is “if we can’t work together on this, this relationship won’t work”.
There is nothing in what I said that suggests connotation or social acceptance are a factor - polyamory exists, couples could enjoy drugs together, and money is important to everyone. What you listed are your boundaries, and that’s cool - I have the same ones. But they’re not universal (though definitely some of the most common). What matters is how they are communicated.
Such an alpha move when, if someone sits you down, you first get up and sit down on the other side of them before you respond.
Also pushing the book shelf across the room and rearranging all the books
And replanting the trees outside so they face in the opposite direction!
Don’t be ridiculous. The alpha move is to get a mirror and place it facing of both of you.
Yes, but:
Three hours later
OMG so why did you guys break up? You were so perfect for each other!
He chose his video games over me…
Wow what a loser, you’re so much better than him
I’m sure he’s devastated that his ex’s friends are supporting her.
Not uncommon for couples to share friends. No matter who it is, no one likes getting bad mouthed behind their back
“Can you believe she had the gall to accuse me of choosing video games over her‽ Anyway, back to the campaign…”
So many on here are critical of the lady without knowing the full circumstance. Some people have a huge game addiction problem to level like alcohol or drugs and cannot regulate/manage appropriately. She may have tried more conservative options. If she said either you quit alcohol or gambling or I am leaving…no one would bat an eye. I play video games, have for decades, and know I can neglect my daily life if I let myself. So it isn’t black and white.
So I’m a woman and I play a lot of games. But I don’t disregard my other responsibilities over games.
I dated a guy gamer many years back and he played literally every single day for at least 4 hours usually more.
Mostly in the evenings. Most of the day on his days off. But he definitely would make excuses why he couldn’t help me with things all the time just to go and play games instead.
I sure would have liked to be able to fuck around all the time too but things have to be done.
He basically lived with me so it was frustrating to always be cleaning up after him because he just played games in all of his free time whereas I had to clean and do my studies when I wasn’t working. And the little free time I had to maybe go out and do something, he just wanted to play games.
Idk if I would call it addiction. But he just prioritized it over time with me. And I wasn’t even asking for much as I worked full time and went to school half time. He had a part time job.
I dated him way too long. 2 years.
He mostly played league of legends. He didn’t really play anything else. Which I also thought was kinda meh.
Zero other hobbies or interests.
As I said I myself play a lot of games. I’m not against video games as a pastime. But for some it’s literally the only thing they do and they prioritize it over experiencing life or being present for anyone else. Use it as an excuse to not help out their partner or take care of themselves.
I was always cleaning up after him.
It wasn’t a video game issue per se. It was him being incapable of putting in effort. And using games to avoid responsibilities. But I could see how someone might think it was the gaming causing the problem.
I agree with you, it isn’t black and white and every situation is different. It may not have been a full addiction but it was a major problem. Sometimes it is a full addition as wel but not the sole addictionl. You made the right decision, his excess video gaming was likely a manifestation of his overall behavior pattern. You likely wouldn’t have fixed him even with him playing games.
Yeah I didn’t break up with him over the gaming. He was a bad partner in many ways. The gaming thing to me was just him trying to excuse his poor behavior.
Agreed with most of what you said. Don’t like the gatekeeping over what a person plays though.
Pvp helped when i was mourning the loss of a fam member. That’s aside from other therapies though. And it wasn’t where I dropped all other responsibilities including handling estate.
Him shirking is bad enough regardless of what game he played. You had strong enough points on that.
I Just don’t like the gatekeeper shit in the gaming community. We got enough of that. Let’s do better than this. To each their own.
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I just mean he only played one thing. That’s it. Like it’s kind of boring to only like 1 thing in the entire world to spend your time on.
What he plays is up to him though. Not you.
I think you are missing the point.
had you read my original post it was on point. with one caveat. you have decided to concentrate on the caveat. so no, factually i never missed your overriding the point and even addressed it saying i agreed with it.
it is you who wanted to go this tangent. this is your show.
i take this to mean you done your little power trip down this lane?
I have nothing against league.
My point was he had zero other interest in life.
He was a bland boring person. He played one single game only.
I don’t know what kind of insult you thought I was implying about league players.
I don’t know any aside from this ex who played all the time. I was only talking about this one specific person. I never said he was “just like all other league players” nor did I say anything implying generalizations of any kind.
If you are a league player who plays no other games, IDK what to tell you. The post wasn’t about you. If you felt personally attacked because of a description of my ex… Yeah again. Idk what to tell you.
Yeah, but those kind of people rarely end up with significant others in the first place. You know… because the do nothing but play videos games all day.
It’s rarely a good idea to give an ultimatum. Obviously state your concerns. Set some boundaries on yourself. If you’re at your breaking point, just leave.
Ultimatums just build resentment even if they choose you. They should want to pick you over video games. It’s just a short term fix otherwise.
Reverse the sexes/genders, and write that again.
Everything you just said would still be true, right?
If the man was issuing the same ultimatum, and the woman gave the response?
FR. If a relationship gets to this point it’s for a reason.
If the partner is prioritizing games over their relationship or responsibilities, and is making the other feel like they have to compete for attention and time with their partners habits or addiction. They have every right to desire to leave that relationship because their needs are not being met.
the number of people who are addicted to gaming is 3.5%, of people who game.
the number of people who are alcoholics in the USA is 10%, among the entire population of the USA.
One of those is vastly more prevalent than the other.
I have played video games my entire life, and never once have they ever caused me to neglect anything in my life.
And yet, most every woman I have dated thinks playing video games is a disgusting gross embarrassing thing, like smoking. Even a few of them who liked to play games themselves.
It’s stupid, and it’s false. It’s just a cultural stigma because ‘cool’ people don’t play video games. Only ‘losers’ play them. And yet like 2/3 of the adult population plays them.
Even more weird when you think about ‘watching tv’ as an activity. People think you are weirdo if you don’t watch TV, because it’s so universally popular and has no negative stigma as being for socially undesirable people.
I was in this situation with a woman where she would get pissed if I would play games while she watched tv. Apparently we were supposed to watch TV together. Not talk or anything, just sit and watch. That one didn’t last very long.
been there, except in my case it was the same show, over and over and over. she had no interest in watching anything else.
and this is why I hate Parks & Rec forever now. lol
This is a reasonable response, however if his habits are inhibiting his lifestyle then she has every right to bring it up as an issue.
FRFR glitches be trippin
It’s not a reasonable response at all. It’s unhealthy AF.
If the partner is prioritizing games over their relationship or responsibilities, and is making the other feel like they have to compete for attention and time with their partners habits or addiction. The affected partner hss every right to desire to leave that relationship because their needs are not being met in that relationship.
This is what the ultimatum is targeting. His response being intentionally obtuse and flipping it back around to the partner whose needs are likely not being met in their relationship being the problem is extremely toxic and manipulative.
I like how everyone is inventing a scenario to fit the two lines of dialogue and claiming it’s this or that.
There’s no way to definitely say if it’s reasonable or not because they guy could be prioritizing gaming over his life and relationship or the lady could just be embarrassed that she is dating a guy with “immature” hobbies and he may be very regulated about the time spent gaming.
In one scenario it’s reasonable in the other it’s not.
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people are confirming their biases via projection, often into extreme scenarios because those are more emotionally vivid and dramatic, than more mundane ones.
If the two characters were a gay couple you’d see very different replies, and probably a lot more light hearted ones, but a lot fewer of them.
but this one nicely plays into the ‘men who play video games are awful and terrible people’ trope, especially with the headline inciting that the male is the mature one here.
and for some folks in relationships, they MUST be the victim, no matter what. those were my favorite breakups, the classic ‘i am doing this but it’s hurting me more than you so therefore i’m the real victim’ nonsense. classic! you can bet some posters who think that way are totally triggered by any suggestion they might be the problematic one.
plus you know, the weirdos who just have an irrational hatred for people who play video games and think they are all depraved jobless man children who goon to anime girls all day.
anyway, it’s fun because so many folks tell on themselves without realizing it, when you put up these kind of relationship Rorschach tests.
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The whole real men don’t play video games is also unhealthy nonsense constantly pushed by toxic members of our society
https://www.aol.com/articles/dating-coach-reveals-why-video-181930000.html
Honestly this is a contrived conversation, but I don’t think the guys answer is that far off of a healthy response. It is important to shutdown this type of behavior when it happens.
https://blog.couplestherapistla.com/ultimatums-dont-work-do-this-instead/
She would be much better off just saying, “When you ignore me or your chores by playing video games it makes me feel like you don’t care about the work it takes to maintain our home and relationship.”
what a awful shitty lady.
half the women on my dating app matches love golf. it’s incredibly popular right now. it’s the new climbing gym.
Without more context she could definitely be shitty or as the poster I responded to said, it could be a toxic response if he is actually ignoring his chores and the relationship by playing games.
I am probably making more out of it than it is though and overthinking things.
i’m talking about the ‘dating coach’ who is clearly an idiot.
Oh yes, I agree completely.
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no, that’s your interpretation of it. which is mostly projection and your identification of the two people as being ‘good’ and ‘bad’.
I would never date an extrovert or someone with no hobbies for exactly this reason. They need you to entertain them or they throw a fit.
Big yep. Partner ≠ 24-hour therapist. If you can’t be alone with your thoughts, you aren’t working on your shit, and shouldn’t inflict it on someone else just because they’re there.
Why not both? Why not play together? Like… Some kind of… Threesome
Haha no, short answer: too bad for you, it’s video games! ❤️
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A video game addiction is a very real thing. If the context had been that he was developing some dangerous habits, that’d be different.
The oh-so relatable manosphere /s
People’s are equals; you must deal with your own insecurities and worry about other’s later. We’re more similar than you think, and it’s ok to love thineself
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