Man, what is it with table top games attracting the most unhygienic among us?
Especially since it’s fundamentally a social activity. Why wouldn’t you consider your presentation if the main part of your hobby is hanging out with other people?
I’ve spent a lot of time with Open Source Programmers and other nerds, including in person, and I believe at least some of the issue is that some of them feel grooming and hygiene is purely aesthetic, bordering on “shallow”. Like the way many of us think about Looksmaxxing or cosmetic surgery.
Like, you spend a bunch of time and money doing your hair or washing your clothes? That time didn’t improve your card playing, it didn’t teach you anything new. Shouldn’t people be judged by what’s inside instead of what’s outside? Shouldn’t people be judged by their skill or merit rather than their looks?
And I intentionally wrote that last one to feel borderline, because I think a lot of people do feel that way, and do believe those things, but not to the same extent. Their boundary for “hygenic enough” requires clean. And maybe the folks I’m characterizing don’t know that it’s actively unpleasant to be around someone who smells bad? Or maybe they’re so steeped in it they don’t know how bad it is?
Tangentially, this is one of the reasons some fem people struggle in these spaces. Any amount of eye-shadow, nice shirt, or hair-style is deemed as “superfluous”, and so any person who spends their time and money on such things is regarded with suspicion. They’re an idiot who wastes their time on looks at best, not to be trusted making other decisions, or a charlatan trying to trick lesser men with their wiles at worst. Those are the only two choices, because there’s no other imaginable reason someone could do these things.
Funny thing is that they end up dressing and styling in a similar manner while looking down on people who deviate from the unspoken dress code. By rejecting fashion they are making a conscious choice in the way they dress and are therefore participating in fashion.
Same thing with the “punk rock” look. It’s so not punk.
I’m sorry but that type of think is delusional. Like because, taking a shower or washing your clothes doesn’t make you better at cards (why would it??) you don’t need to do it, why would these things be related? They serve completely different purposes. It sounds more like justifications to not do something they don’t enjoy or don’t want to do.
It is, yeah. It’s also what they believe. It’s sort of a sour grapes situation.
For most people, this kind of behavior is socialized out of them by the time they reach adulthood. But a lot of YuGiOh players, and players of other kinds, do not leave their house. To such a person, getting ready to go out requires maybe an hour or more of prep time, mostly because they don’t know what they’re doing, for what feels like 5 minutes of play at grocery store. They would think of this as superfluous and pointless.
A point of similarity I know will ruffle a few feathers: do you make your bed every day?
No I don’t. Why should I? My bed sheets being made or messy doesnt impact anyone else and it barely impacts me. It’s just not a valid comparison to having simple bodily hygiene when going outside.
Hold your horses, there’s no need to get defensive.
I didn’t bring that up to suggest people should—I don’t—I’m just provoking a bit of thought.
You don’t see any similarities at all between making sure you’re shaved, showered, well-dressed, maybe perfumed a bit, before going outside; and making sure your bed is clean, well-kept, and presentable?
You probably don’t invite friends into your bedroom.
So let’s ask a similar question: do you clean your living room before inviting guests over? What is the purpose of that? There’s a good chance you care about it being clean more than they do, so why bother?
That wasn’t in a defensive tone lol. Sorry about not writing clearly enough.
I don’t really see many similarities between making sure I’m clean before going outside and keeping my bed made. Keeping my bed clean? Sure. But spesifically keeping the bedsheets made? Not really. (Messy bedsheets doesnt make a bed “dirty”)
I would clean my living room before inviting guests, yes, however I still dont think thats much of a comparison to bedsheets specifically. The purpose of cleaning the living room before having guests is so that I have a nice space for my guests. There’s a social incentive. I ain’t presenting my bed to anyone often, so there isn’t really a social incentive for me to make the sheets.
I guess it comes down to what makes an individual feel orderly and clean. We clean our bodies to be presentable, but also to feel clean (and be healthy). The former reason isn’t very applicable to making the bedsheets most of the time, but the latter can be.
Edit: I just realised the absurdity of my end conclusion somehow being “I guess ppl have preferences huh”
Your whole premise relies on them failing basic biology class (or somehow skipping out on the microbiology part?) because hygiene is also just about basic health.
So either they’re all very stupid when it comes to basic health, or there’s multiple issues or some other major one.
But they’re not people–they are other players. What they look or smell like is absolutely irrelevant next to more IMPORTANT details… like if you’re playing a speedoid deck against an archerine, are you really going to have the mental bandwidth to be thinking about stuff like hygiene?
All you’re doing here is demonstrating that you are not a serious person, probably someone whose never had a cyber dragon summoned against them, someone who has really never known true risk.
You take your showers. Blow dry your hair. Apply your deoderant. Then see how you fare against this deck.
/s
showeroids win by default because the Serious Stinkers got disqualified for being biohazards
biohazards:
Super Smash Bros also seems to have the same problem.
Plus a ton of pedophiles!
Actually?
They tend to attract autistic people, who can have trouble with bathing for various reasons.
What are those reasons could be?
So, in my experience, it’s less unhygienic, and more a problem with not covering up their natural smells. Sounds similar, different things. I’ll explain me experience with TTRPGers.
All the ones I know who fall into the funk trap are autistic folk, and the issue isn’t that they don’t bathe, it’s that they can’t stand those strong chemical smells they associate with body washes and deodorant*. So they bathe, but they use mild soaps, soaps designed for children, or unscented soaps, and they don’t wear deodorant.
Which creates a situation where the hygiene is okay, but the funk is still there, once they’re all in a group together. One on one, you really don’t notice, but get 10 folks in a room for game night, or a couple thousand together for an event or convention, and the funk becomes overpowering.
That said, I do know two that have just a general aversion to bathing, and consistently reek
*Edit to add
Also an issue with texture on the skin. One of my best friends is autistic, and he cannot handle the feeling of deodorant on his armpits. It tacks the hair down, it’s apparently sticky feeling, and he just goes into total meltdown until he can get it off. He can’t focus on anything else.
I appreciate the perspective but would like to point out that encouraging strong masking scents is not going to help the situation. There are plenty of workplaces with “no strong scent” policies that manage to have conference meetings without triggering gag reflexes or migraines.
I’ll explain me experience…
The rest of your comment was read in a pirate voice in my head.
That was the intent.
I’m autistic and I find showers overwhelming because they’re loud and they are touching you all over, it’s definitely a real thing but between unscented options, wipes and product choices like, spray deodorant for example, it’s still very possible to be hygienic and not “smell natural” if a person has symptoms so bad they literally cannot tolerate cleaning themselves it should be treated like any other symptom that they’d need to stay away from people for and they should abstain from attending.
I don’t know if it’s the soap thing so much, it more comes down to people in significant gathers have a smell to them that being in a small room or convention space amplifies. Showering and soap use is important but I think scrubbing is just as important. As well regularly clean clothes and just a little care for one’s body.
Mineral deodorants exist.
It’s a place they are kind of accepted.
Most of the time people spend on Warhammer for example is spent alone painting little figurines or reading lore. The social part of actually playing games is a minor part of this hobby.
A tale as old as time or at least a couple decades.
is it that they dont’ shower, or is it that they just sweat so much they smell no matter what?
Just poor bodily hygiene in general. You can shower all you want but if you don’t wash your clothes or don’t know how to do it properly, it won’t matter.
Same as aversion to deodorant for whatever reason. Even here on Lemmy there’s lots of people that are against it for some reason.
Idk who needs to hear this, but some people have body oils that react to the ingredients within various deodorants that makes the smell worse rather than masking it (which might be why some people are adverse to it). Some people who have had poor hygiene in the past have difficult bacteria cultures that won’t go away just by soap and water.
Try changing deodorant to antiperspirant. Minimize any perfume or scented products. And if soap isn’t working, acne face wash works great (just don’t use it every time or it dries you out).
Chlorahexadine to the rescue
Yes there are a few I found that make it way way worse. I find the gel stuff to be the worst culprit
We survived a few thousand years or so without deodorant.
If you shower daily and wear clean clothes, you shouldn’t need it.
We survived a few thousand years without showering daily and clean clothes. We had different lifestyles and different expectations.
Most people would have washed daily by some method, we’ve had soap and water for a very long time.
We also lacked indoor plumbing, sanitation, sewage management, and typically had livestock near people as there were no highways or 18-wheelers to deliver meat from a farm in another region.
Life was stanky for thousands of years.
So you’ve acclimated to your own stench, got it
Depends on climate. If its hot, you need deoderant.
If you’re gonna freeze off fits you don’t even have the moment one of your ten layers unzips, you may not.
Modern deoderant is modern. There’s a long history of scent coverings, especially in indoor public spaces like temples. Why the bucket of hydrogenated whale piss do you think incense started being a thing?
I definitely don’t live in a hot climate, I’ll be lucky if the temperature hits double digits today.
We had more space back then LOL. And some middle east area they wore scented deoderants on their head that would waft down and mask body odor.
I can shower, put on fresh clothes and if the temperature is above 20C I’ll be stinky as heck just after lunch. I always need deoderant or antiperspirant if I need to interact with anybody (including myself)
And there they are.
You stink.
I find modern deodorants to be a bit overkill on most days. They are slimy, they irritate my skin, cause acne and take forever to wash off later. Antiperspirants are even worse. I really only use those types of products if I’m outside in humid heat after not showering for a day or two, once the stank has had a chance to build to noticeable levels. And yes I’ve checked with other people who have no problem providing critical feedback.
For me, those products are a solution looking for a problem, but for others, they might be essential. Some have need for even stronger versions that might need a prescription. Everyone produces different levels of stank. It also depends on the social expectations where you live, your climate, activity level, and diet.
After weighing the various factors, your decision to use any product that goes in or on your body is a personal one. People don’t have to use products that don’t actually help. It’s also good to listen to feedback of those around you, but the products available at your average store might not be the universal solution you think they are.
Eta: I say, essentially, “everyone has different needs in this area” and the hygiene gestapo show up lmao
There he is
Oh you’ve never played a tcg.
No, I played then when I was 13 and I stopped because I grew up.
Ah yes, pinnacle of maturity checks notes TubularTittyFrog
So you have, its just coming up on two years since? Its fine I’m jot asking you to bet your life on your yugioh skills; just to remember the people who play these things.
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Went to London Retro games and Card Fair last week. Just about every stall I looked at had some sweaty smelly fucker who just didnt care about hygiene.
The sweaty part isn’t their fault, especially last week in London, but the rest is.
Signed, a
person with a very efficient internal cooling systemreal sweaty BettySweat does not necessarily smell.
It smells when bacteria procreate and poop in it. Which happens when you don’t wash away sweat for too long.Also you can use antiperspirants.
Right, that’s why the rest of it is their fault, but not the sweat.
Also you can use antiperspirants.
Unless I cover my whole body in it, somewhere is going to be sweaty. And I don’t think it’s a great idea to hinder my ability to cool myself.
Are you also really limber? Can you touch your toes and you don’t even stretch every day? Or are you a goddess at yoga?
Do you have a problem knowing when you are hungry or thirsty? Like, sometimes do you put a glass of water to your lips and suddenly you gulp it at once and are surprised? Do you have to gauge hunger by recognizing that you are tired or angry instead of simply hunger urges?
I have both ehlers danlos and adhd, so absolutely, yes.
lol I was reading their comment and thinking yeah this person doesn’t know ADHD makes those body signals basically impossible to notice
Same, girl. I figured you did and wanted to make sure you knew about it. Also, since you’ve hit the bullseye, I’m going to assume you need to make sure and sort out any gender stuff in a way that feels good to you. Did you get to that already too? XD
lol, every tenth comment includes “probably an egg,” you mind reader
Signed, a
person with a very efficient internal cooling systemreal sweaty BettySpeaking as a… sweaty Bernard I guess, I beg to differ on the crossed out part.
Both because sweating is an EXTERNAL cooling system (cooling from the skin in as the body heats up from the inside out) and because, at least in my case, the excessive sweating doesn’t seem to make me tolerate heat better than most people. It’s rather the opposite…
Oh, yeah, I don’t tolerate the heat at all compared to other people, but I always tell myself the sweating is a consequence of that, and I’m actually cooling myself very well. Otherwise, I’ll go insane.
But I mean internal to myself, as in not a separate device.
You can certainly be a sweaty Bernard (or Freddy), but I am also in better times a chilly Willy and I reject the nickname chilly lily. Sometimes I’m also a cryin O’Brien, which sounds more neutral, but I am picturing this.
(Side note:) I think the heat is getting to my brain, I would normally be very embarrassed to share the “baby talk” I use with my husband with people. Maybe my ability to cringe is related to the temperature.
Oh I get that, so much of my social capacity shuts down whenever I’m overheating. No shame, forgetting that I can ask people for things, in general I’m just trying to go semi conscious in the dark as I sweat myself to dehydration
I’m not vegan at all, but as someone who easily overheats, I eat very little or no meat at all in the summer because it greatly cools me down. Or maybe better said, meat heats me up. So I save it for winter
I am vegan, so maybe that’s part of why I’m often chilly in the winter, but eating generally warms me up. That’s fine in the winter, but in the summer it makes eating anything substantial difficult.
Maybe you can try some plant fats and high protein? Like a very decadent high protein cake? Though high bioavailable protein is a bit harder as a vegan than vegetarian, but I think it might still be possible to make a very decadent cake perhaps?
I normally eat a bunch of tofu and legumes, so I get a lot of protein generally. Currently I’m doing a lot of (high protein and sugar free) skyr alternative that I mix with oats, almonds, chia seeds, frozen berries, and puffed amaranth, which is pretty nutritious, I just have to eat it very early or very late
This only happens after periods of starvation.
It happens for me no matter what. I’m talking about perceived warmth, because my actual temperature is only relevant if it’s outside of the healthy range, so I only measure it when I’m sick.
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Um it’s a ferret not a cat.
So does Rugby
At least the rugby boys play slap-ass in the changeroom showers after the game
And them being overweight affects others’ enjoyment of the game how exactly? Showering and deodorant are basic courtesy but why exactly is the player’s body shape an issue?
Being overweight itself isn’t an issue, but it does tend to cause more sweating.
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Bingo halls were doing that way before even the transistor was invented. There used to be decorum standards before we lost our collective ability to feel shame. I do not include those that need assistance. You should help those that need assistance.
I’m happy to assist people to feel ashamed.
Even following them around and yelling shame at them?
It’s a rule by Konami. You need to have basic hygiene. Nothing unusual here.
What’s with TCG players and hygiene? I remember my MtG days when you couldn’t attend a single tournament without at least two of your opponent smelling like spicy corpses.
What’s with TCG players and hygiene?
It’s mostly just men hitting puberty and developing glands and pores they didn’t have before.
You’re going to find all the same smells in the locker room and the band van and the construction site. Anywhere you’ve got adolescent men congregating. Especially if there’s bad ventilation and poor AC.
What about the middle aged stinkers? What’s their excuse?
Depression probably.
Drinking, smoking, and sleeping rough are the most common cases I’ve noticed.
You hit puberty anywhere between 11 and 14… I dont think thats the main crowd.
You continue through puberty until you’re around 17. And you don’t stop smelling bad once it’s over. 20 year olds who spent a few hours out in the sun will smell even worse.
(mostly facetious) irrelevant! The last time a TCG tournament player spent a few hours in the sun, we were building decks out of clay tablets!
Is this what activating a trap card is? Everything I’ve ever learned about TCGs has been done unwillingly through shitposts.
Why can’t they be… taught? To clean themselves?
They can. But they also have to be.
Part of the cycle is new kids coming in, smelling bad, getting bullied for smelling bad, and changing their habits as a result. And then more new kids come in, and the pattern repeats. But you do need a baseline.
I’ve been in gyms that smell absolutely foul. And the folks who have normalized the odor simply don’t notice. If nobody says anything or otherwise makes an issue of it, the folks running the place don’t change the policies or put in the legwork to clean the place up.
Definitely not the leading cause of TCG-smell. But that is a complicating factor for that age group
With the construction site, It could just be the corpses in the concrete that are starting to smell a bit.
I have to disagree, from first hand experience I’m mostly talking about grown adults.
As a bigger guy, I started to get that “fat person” smell even after showering. I realized that the smell was coming from not being able to get all the soap off using just a regular showerhead. I got a handheld shower and haven’t had that issue since then. So, that could be part of the problem.
I stopped attending local MtG events many years ago because of this one cadre of assholes who not only had obnoxious personalities but also smelled like they carried old onions and dog shit in their back pockets.
…do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?
During the very early years of a local fandom convention, there was a similar problem.
Then, one year, gift bags with toiletries were handed out.
The hint was taken, and the convention has smelled better ever since.
“You are expected to be clean when you enter a tournament,” the official Yu-Gi-Oh Tournament Guide says.
At the time, this policy was welcomed among players,…
wait, so, it’s not now? are they against showers now??
…and Chronos Games & Gifts is similarly receiving praise from local attendees for keeping its venue stench-free.
what a weird way to put a sentence.
“Yeah I used to be for people showering before tournaments… I still am, but I used to be too.”
So same story since the fucking 90s? Some ccg players are fucking stanky.
Apparently Oregon has been in the 50s, so weather isn’t an excuse.
Indeed, the PNW is pretty cool right now, I’m hating it
It’s perfect don’t take this from me. Last week was brutal
agreed last week was hell
It’s always the one you expect.
