Especially since it’s fundamentally a social activity. Why wouldn’t you consider your presentation if the main part of your hobby is hanging out with other people?
I’ve spent a lot of time with Open Source Programmers and other nerds, including in person, and I believe at least some of the issue is that some of them feel grooming and hygiene is purely aesthetic, bordering on “shallow”. Like the way many of us think about Looksmaxxing or cosmetic surgery.
Like, you spend a bunch of time and money doing your hair or washing your clothes? That time didn’t improve your card playing, it didn’t teach you anything new. Shouldn’t people be judged by what’s inside instead of what’s outside? Shouldn’t people be judged by their skill or merit rather than their looks?
And I intentionally wrote that last one to feel borderline, because I think a lot of people do feel that way, and do believe those things, but not to the same extent. Their boundary for “hygenic enough” requires clean. And maybe the folks I’m characterizing don’t know that it’s actively unpleasant to be around someone who smells bad? Or maybe they’re so steeped in it they don’t know how bad it is?
Tangentially, this is one of the reasons some fem people struggle in these spaces. Any amount of eye-shadow, nice shirt, or hair-style is deemed as “superfluous”, and so any person who spends their time and money on such things is regarded with suspicion. They’re an idiot who wastes their time on looks at best, not to be trusted making other decisions, or a charlatan trying to trick lesser men with their wiles at worst. Those are the only two choices, because there’s no other imaginable reason someone could do these things.
Funny thing is that they end up dressing and styling in a similar manner while looking down on people who deviate from the unspoken dress code. By rejecting fashion they are making a conscious choice in the way they dress and are therefore participating in fashion.
I’m sorry but that type of think is delusional. Like because, taking a shower or washing your clothes doesn’t make you better at cards (why would it??) you don’t need to do it, why would these things be related? They serve completely different purposes. It sounds more like justifications to not do something they don’t enjoy or don’t want to do.
It is, yeah. It’s also what they believe. It’s sort of a sour grapes situation.
For most people, this kind of behavior is socialized out of them by the time they reach adulthood. But a lot of YuGiOh players, and players of other kinds, do not leave their house. To such a person, getting ready to go out requires maybe an hour or more of prep time, mostly because they don’t know what they’re doing, for what feels like 5 minutes of play at grocery store. They would think of this as superfluous and pointless.
A point of similarity I know will ruffle a few feathers: do you make your bed every day?
No I don’t. Why should I? My bed sheets being made or messy doesnt impact anyone else and it barely impacts me. It’s just not a valid comparison to having simple bodily hygiene when going outside.
Hold your horses, there’s no need to get defensive.
I didn’t bring that up to suggest people should—I don’t—I’m just provoking a bit of thought.
You don’t see any similarities at all between making sure you’re shaved, showered, well-dressed, maybe perfumed a bit, before going outside; and making sure your bed is clean, well-kept, and presentable?
You probably don’t invite friends into your bedroom.
So let’s ask a similar question: do you clean your living room before inviting guests over? What is the purpose of that? There’s a good chance you care about it being clean more than they do, so why bother?
That wasn’t in a defensive tone lol. Sorry about not writing clearly enough.
I don’t really see many similarities between making sure I’m clean before going outside and keeping my bed made. Keeping my bed clean? Sure. But spesifically keeping the bedsheets made? Not really. (Messy bedsheets doesnt make a bed “dirty”)
I would clean my living room before inviting guests, yes, however I still dont think thats much of a comparison to bedsheets specifically. The purpose of cleaning the living room before having guests is so that I have a nice space for my guests. There’s a social incentive. I ain’t presenting my bed to anyone often, so there isn’t really a social incentive for me to make the sheets.
I guess it comes down to what makes an individual feel orderly and clean. We clean our bodies to be presentable, but also to feel clean (and be healthy). The former reason isn’t very applicable to making the bedsheets most of the time, but the latter can be.
Edit: I just realised the absurdity of my end conclusion somehow being “I guess ppl have preferences huh”
It’s been so many hours, so I don’t know if I really remember my purpose, but I think it was something like: can you get yourself into a headspace where making your bed seems like a pleasant thing to do?
'Cause I can, even though I don’t.
I don’t live in the 1600s, so it’s hard to imagine what consequences not making my own bed would have; and though I think they’re wrong, the unshowered yugioh player probably feels similarly. They’d have to be taught otherwise.
Your whole premise relies on them failing basic biology class (or somehow skipping out on the microbiology part?) because hygiene is also just about basic health.
So either they’re all very stupid when it comes to basic health, or there’s multiple issues or some other major one.
But they’re not people–they are other players. What they look or smell like is absolutely irrelevant next to more IMPORTANT details… like if you’re playing a speedoid deck against an archerine, are you really going to have the mental bandwidth to be thinking about stuff like hygiene?
All you’re doing here is demonstrating that you are not a serious person, probably someone whose never had a cyber dragon summoned against them, someone who has really never known true risk.
You take your showers. Blow dry your hair. Apply your deoderant. Then see how you fare against this deck.
So, in my experience, it’s less unhygienic, and more a problem with not covering up their natural smells. Sounds similar, different things. I’ll explain me experience with TTRPGers.
All the ones I know who fall into the funk trap are autistic folk, and the issue isn’t that they don’t bathe, it’s that they can’t stand those strong chemical smells they associate with body washes and deodorant*. So they bathe, but they use mild soaps, soaps designed for children, or unscented soaps, and they don’t wear deodorant.
Which creates a situation where the hygiene is okay, but the funk is still there, once they’re all in a group together. One on one, you really don’t notice, but get 10 folks in a room for game night, or a couple thousand together for an event or convention, and the funk becomes overpowering.
That said, I do know two that have just a general aversion to bathing, and consistently reek
*Edit to add
Also an issue with texture on the skin. One of my best friends is autistic, and he cannot handle the feeling of deodorant on his armpits. It tacks the hair down, it’s apparently sticky feeling, and he just goes into total meltdown until he can get it off. He can’t focus on anything else.
I appreciate the perspective but would like to point out that encouraging strong masking scents is not going to help the situation. There are plenty of workplaces with “no strong scent” policies that manage to have conference meetings without triggering gag reflexes or migraines.
I’m autistic and I find showers overwhelming because they’re loud and they are touching you all over, it’s definitely a real thing but between unscented options, wipes and product choices like, spray deodorant for example, it’s still very possible to be hygienic and not “smell natural” if a person has symptoms so bad they literally cannot tolerate cleaning themselves it should be treated like any other symptom that they’d need to stay away from people for and they should abstain from attending.
I don’t know if it’s the soap thing so much, it more comes down to people in significant gathers have a smell to them that being in a small room or convention space amplifies. Showering and soap use is important but I think scrubbing is just as important. As well regularly clean clothes and just a little care for one’s body.
Most of the time people spend on Warhammer for example is spent alone painting little figurines or reading lore. The social part of actually playing games is a minor part of this hobby.
Man, what is it with table top games attracting the most unhygienic among us?
Especially since it’s fundamentally a social activity. Why wouldn’t you consider your presentation if the main part of your hobby is hanging out with other people?
I’ve spent a lot of time with Open Source Programmers and other nerds, including in person, and I believe at least some of the issue is that some of them feel grooming and hygiene is purely aesthetic, bordering on “shallow”. Like the way many of us think about Looksmaxxing or cosmetic surgery.
Like, you spend a bunch of time and money doing your hair or washing your clothes? That time didn’t improve your card playing, it didn’t teach you anything new. Shouldn’t people be judged by what’s inside instead of what’s outside? Shouldn’t people be judged by their skill or merit rather than their looks?
And I intentionally wrote that last one to feel borderline, because I think a lot of people do feel that way, and do believe those things, but not to the same extent. Their boundary for “hygenic enough” requires clean. And maybe the folks I’m characterizing don’t know that it’s actively unpleasant to be around someone who smells bad? Or maybe they’re so steeped in it they don’t know how bad it is?
Tangentially, this is one of the reasons some fem people struggle in these spaces. Any amount of eye-shadow, nice shirt, or hair-style is deemed as “superfluous”, and so any person who spends their time and money on such things is regarded with suspicion. They’re an idiot who wastes their time on looks at best, not to be trusted making other decisions, or a charlatan trying to trick lesser men with their wiles at worst. Those are the only two choices, because there’s no other imaginable reason someone could do these things.
Funny thing is that they end up dressing and styling in a similar manner while looking down on people who deviate from the unspoken dress code. By rejecting fashion they are making a conscious choice in the way they dress and are therefore participating in fashion.
Same thing with the “punk rock” look. It’s so not punk.
I’m sorry but that type of think is delusional. Like because, taking a shower or washing your clothes doesn’t make you better at cards (why would it??) you don’t need to do it, why would these things be related? They serve completely different purposes. It sounds more like justifications to not do something they don’t enjoy or don’t want to do.
It is, yeah. It’s also what they believe. It’s sort of a sour grapes situation.
For most people, this kind of behavior is socialized out of them by the time they reach adulthood. But a lot of YuGiOh players, and players of other kinds, do not leave their house. To such a person, getting ready to go out requires maybe an hour or more of prep time, mostly because they don’t know what they’re doing, for what feels like 5 minutes of play at grocery store. They would think of this as superfluous and pointless.
A point of similarity I know will ruffle a few feathers: do you make your bed every day?
No I don’t. Why should I? My bed sheets being made or messy doesnt impact anyone else and it barely impacts me. It’s just not a valid comparison to having simple bodily hygiene when going outside.
Hold your horses, there’s no need to get defensive.
I didn’t bring that up to suggest people should—I don’t—I’m just provoking a bit of thought.
You don’t see any similarities at all between making sure you’re shaved, showered, well-dressed, maybe perfumed a bit, before going outside; and making sure your bed is clean, well-kept, and presentable?
You probably don’t invite friends into your bedroom.
So let’s ask a similar question: do you clean your living room before inviting guests over? What is the purpose of that? There’s a good chance you care about it being clean more than they do, so why bother?
That wasn’t in a defensive tone lol. Sorry about not writing clearly enough.
I don’t really see many similarities between making sure I’m clean before going outside and keeping my bed made. Keeping my bed clean? Sure. But spesifically keeping the bedsheets made? Not really. (Messy bedsheets doesnt make a bed “dirty”)
I would clean my living room before inviting guests, yes, however I still dont think thats much of a comparison to bedsheets specifically. The purpose of cleaning the living room before having guests is so that I have a nice space for my guests. There’s a social incentive. I ain’t presenting my bed to anyone often, so there isn’t really a social incentive for me to make the sheets.
I guess it comes down to what makes an individual feel orderly and clean. We clean our bodies to be presentable, but also to feel clean (and be healthy). The former reason isn’t very applicable to making the bedsheets most of the time, but the latter can be.
Edit: I just realised the absurdity of my end conclusion somehow being “I guess ppl have preferences huh”
My point exactly. :p
It’s been so many hours, so I don’t know if I really remember my purpose, but I think it was something like: can you get yourself into a headspace where making your bed seems like a pleasant thing to do?
'Cause I can, even though I don’t.
I don’t live in the 1600s, so it’s hard to imagine what consequences not making my own bed would have; and though I think they’re wrong, the unshowered yugioh player probably feels similarly. They’d have to be taught otherwise.
Your whole premise relies on them failing basic biology class (or somehow skipping out on the microbiology part?) because hygiene is also just about basic health.
So either they’re all very stupid when it comes to basic health, or there’s multiple issues or some other major one.
But they’re not people–they are other players. What they look or smell like is absolutely irrelevant next to more IMPORTANT details… like if you’re playing a speedoid deck against an archerine, are you really going to have the mental bandwidth to be thinking about stuff like hygiene?
All you’re doing here is demonstrating that you are not a serious person, probably someone whose never had a cyber dragon summoned against them, someone who has really never known true risk.
You take your showers. Blow dry your hair. Apply your deoderant. Then see how you fare against this deck.
/s
biohazards:
Super Smash Bros also seems to have the same problem.
Plus a ton of pedophiles!
Actually?
They tend to attract autistic people, who can have trouble with bathing for various reasons.
What are those reasons could be?
So, in my experience, it’s less unhygienic, and more a problem with not covering up their natural smells. Sounds similar, different things. I’ll explain me experience with TTRPGers.
All the ones I know who fall into the funk trap are autistic folk, and the issue isn’t that they don’t bathe, it’s that they can’t stand those strong chemical smells they associate with body washes and deodorant*. So they bathe, but they use mild soaps, soaps designed for children, or unscented soaps, and they don’t wear deodorant.
Which creates a situation where the hygiene is okay, but the funk is still there, once they’re all in a group together. One on one, you really don’t notice, but get 10 folks in a room for game night, or a couple thousand together for an event or convention, and the funk becomes overpowering.
That said, I do know two that have just a general aversion to bathing, and consistently reek
*Edit to add
Also an issue with texture on the skin. One of my best friends is autistic, and he cannot handle the feeling of deodorant on his armpits. It tacks the hair down, it’s apparently sticky feeling, and he just goes into total meltdown until he can get it off. He can’t focus on anything else.
I appreciate the perspective but would like to point out that encouraging strong masking scents is not going to help the situation. There are plenty of workplaces with “no strong scent” policies that manage to have conference meetings without triggering gag reflexes or migraines.
The rest of your comment was read in a pirate voice in my head.
That was the intent.
I’m autistic and I find showers overwhelming because they’re loud and they are touching you all over, it’s definitely a real thing but between unscented options, wipes and product choices like, spray deodorant for example, it’s still very possible to be hygienic and not “smell natural” if a person has symptoms so bad they literally cannot tolerate cleaning themselves it should be treated like any other symptom that they’d need to stay away from people for and they should abstain from attending.
I don’t know if it’s the soap thing so much, it more comes down to people in significant gathers have a smell to them that being in a small room or convention space amplifies. Showering and soap use is important but I think scrubbing is just as important. As well regularly clean clothes and just a little care for one’s body.
Mineral deodorants exist.
It’s a place they are kind of accepted.
Most of the time people spend on Warhammer for example is spent alone painting little figurines or reading lore. The social part of actually playing games is a minor part of this hobby.