Beating mouse + KB is hard and people already have good enough Xbox/ps controllers to justify buying another
This is the correct answer. I use a controller on console because I have to. There are very few game genres (imho) where a controller is superior to a mouse.
To add onto your point, a lot of games where mouse+keyboard isn’t the best set of inputs, neither is a controller. Things like flight games or racing games.
Exactly, honestly fighting games are the only genre I can think of where a controller is better than keyboard/mouse… maybe platformers?
Edit: again this is my personal opinion. I knew a guy back when lan parties were still a thing that would play shooters with a trackball and he would annihilate everyone. We all got our preferences :)
I actually bought a Logitech trackball mouse shortly after I got my PC. My grandpa used to use one and I thought it might have been good for some gaming, but it had been too long since I last used it so it didn’t feel right.
It’s just a personal experience thing for some games. I use controller (8bitdo Pro PS style) for FFXIV, Monster Hunter games, and a few smaller games that use third person overhead (Isometric?) as well as general turn based RPGs, but almost never for anything that feels similar to a shooter. Ark, Warframe, BG3, and a bunch of other survival/builder games, X4 etc are all keyboard and mouse.
There are some that may seem like they’re in the wrong category, like the Horizon games are controller for me despite having a lot of aiming mechanics, but again it’s all personal feeling of comfort. I don’t argue for either one to other people; just use what feels good to you.
I have a third-party Xbox controller that’s my main gamepad, and I bought a PS3 controller a while back for emulating PlayStation games (there was one game I played that I literally needed the controller for a specific mechanic/functionality).
My Xbox controller actually has a couple extra buttons on the back/bottom that you can program to be other buttons; I set them to be alternate bumpers so I don’t have to hold the controller in that weird claw way.
lol I too know the pain of relying on PS3 controllers for games with pressure-sensitive button inputs.
Mine was a motion control mini game that I couldn’t just skip
At least gyro is a pretty ubiquitous feature at this point, but I wouldn’t be surprised if pressure-sensitive face buttons die with the PS3.
The absolutely unplayable stick drift in my last 3 Xbox one controllers says otherwise.
Everyone is busy maximizing profits instead of fucking innovating meanwhile valve is over here hunkered down like a mad scientist
Valve just realised that killing the golden goose, for a quick buck, is a bad plan.
A smooth, efficient customer experience keeps us around.
A low friction, but not aggressively in your face sales setup makes getting us to pay them very easy.
Streamlining the developer toolchain and sales path means more games to sell to us.
It’s not a hard formula, but apparently MBAs can’t keep with it long enough to let it snowball. They keep trying to cash out early, and cook the goose.
Not being a public company and having executive compensation be dictated by the results of a handful of quarters probably helps
Still bummed about the 100 dollar price tag
I think I’ll try it if there’s a sale, but that’s a hefty price for a controller. I’m fine with just running m&k for now
$149 for Canadians…
I don’t know the internals of their price decision, but IMO the controller should be sold at close to margin or at a loss. Their real money maker is in selling games and steam item trading. Their hardware should be accessible. The goal shouldn’t be to get a profit out of the controller, it should be to make people stick with the platform and create brand loyalty.
But who knows, maybe the costs of making one is just that high.
Isn’t xbox one is like 150?
Ah, I was looking at pro, which is 170 euro where I am right now https://www.xbox.com/de-DE/accessories/controllers/elite-wireless-controller-series-2
wow, that is a lot for a controller.
They have different controllers at different price points, but my opinion is that a first party controller should only cost about as much as a AAA game at MSRP. A controller should be 40 to 70 usd. Retailers can adjust their price. Third party manufacturers can have more lenience in how they price
I really don’t see how that follows, a controller and a game are different things, why do they have to cost the same. I think the cost needs to be tied to price of manufactoring
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/20298494
Oops here’s my point in a clearer manner. I don’t mean to tie it to the price of a game. Im just using that as a reference point
I hate to tell you, but AAA publishers have been trying to push $100+ games for a while now…
I guess I’m old enough to remember that there were a plethora of joysticks and game pads during the 80’s and 90’s that were designed for PC. So many options for PC back in the day.
That all changed and dried up after Doom came on the scene and M+K and the precision that it gave became the norm and there was no real need for PC gamepads and the market for that dried up plus with console controllers moving to work with PC’s there was really no need for something PC specific since for most games, M+K is still better suited or at least more than serviceable so the PC controller market is niche still at best.
I played Descent II with both a Microsoft Sidewinder, and a Spaceorb 360.
Holy crap! I just saw that Linus Torvalds wrote in 1999, and is still maintaining, a Linux SpaceOrb 360 driver.
Holy crap 2.0! Here’s a guy selling a complete hardware and software solution to get a SpaceOrb 360 working on a modern computer: https://www.etsy.com/listing/4380741525/vectorbridge-usb-adapter-spaceorb-360?sts=1
Last time I looked, I couldn’t get Windows drivers for it, so I just gave up. Not on Windows anymore.
Decent and that sidewinder. Wow. That is a long time ago. But I remember!
“I play video games with the same input as Microsoft Excel.”
Factorio players: “I play video games with the same input, output, and gameplay as Microsoft Excel.”
My favorite video game is Microsoft Excel.
My favorite e-sports event is the Microsoft Excel World Championship.
This cannot, CANNOT be real. Is this real?
Oh there are highlight reels online. The competitors are crazy good.
yes.
I think what people will look back on and say was so successful about this design as it relates to the steam deck joysticks and trackpads is that it cemented a control pattern that I think will become a standard for high quality pc gamepads/handhelds.
The market is ripe for someone to make something very similar but flip the joysticks and touchpads for people that prefer that layout, for one…
I think the market is kind of stagnant, the Steam Controller should help shake that up a bit hopefully. I’m looking forward to getting 2 of them myself.
Honestly… To me, any controller that can connect to my PC is a PC controller.
Like yeah, I get the Steam controller; now people can play games that would usually require mouse input. But in my case I’d just… Use the mouse…
I have a controller from 8bitdo (the one that looks like a SNES married to a DS4) and I use that one for games that work best on controller.
I remember a time there was plenty.
Well…
Microcomputers had joysticks before they had Microsoft. On the PC platform with the 15 pin game port, a 4 axis (XYZ + throttle) and 8 button plus hat switch form factor arose by the late 90’s such as the Microsoft Sidewinder and Logitech Wingman series. Later models made the transition to USB, there were a couple attempts at force feedback about the time the game industry shifted.
In the early 2000s, flight sims like the Janes series, Microsoft Flight Simulator etc. and other vehicle sim games like Descent and Mechwarrior faded away in favor of first person shooters like Half Life 2 and MMORPGs like World of Warcraft which are best controlled by mouse and keybaord. Interestingly enough, PC games designed for joysticks like Mechwarrior and Crimson Skies moved to consoles to be played with controllers; both saw their final entries on Xbox 360.
Microsoft discontinued the Sidewinder series in 2003. In late 2005 they released a Windows driver for the Xbox 360 controller along with Xinput, making the Xbox 360 controller the de facto standard for a PC game pad. This arrangement has remained more or less intact to the present day, with Microsoft adding support for the Xbox One controller to Windows 10 in 2015, though 360 controller support remains.
tl;dr: The standard issue Xbox controller has been the first party supported gamepad on PC for 20 years.
Logitech produces the cheap Player Two ones you use to pilot billionaire crushing submarines. Valve tried with their original Steam Controller, which was kinda weird and had niche appeal. More recently the likes of Gravis have tried? But the average unwashed mass is going to walk into Best Buy and pick up an Xbox controller, or use the one that he already owns for his Xbox.
If I could have the valve touchpads on a controller made by 8bitdo or gamesir that’d be great. I’ll probably buy it, but I haven’t held a Valve device which had buttons or ergonomics that felt as good as the ones from those other two companies.
I’m not sure. I use a controller for any game where it makes sense. It’s more ergonomic for me–my fingers get angry at me if I use keyboard and mouse to, say, run around a map for too long. Gamepad doesn’t hurt the same way.
I’m also team “invert the y-axis because my character is a helicopter”.
Isn’t the 8bitdo a PC first controller, for around $50ish bucks?
That doesn’t really look like it’s useful outside of video games though. It just looks like a good controller with slightly more features than normal controllers. The track pads on the steam controller really look like a game changer to me, I use them all the time on the steam deck for games that are awkward to use with joysticks.
