Additionally, what changes are necessary for you to be able to use Linux full time?
Shit never works and I basically have to become a programmer and expert in CLI to get shit to work… until it breaks again. So after having to Google everything on how to do supposedly simple shit, I always end up going back to Windows and GUI’s because I don’t have time to become a developer.
I have to have a computer science degree to install a peice of software… I just wanna double click the installer icon. I don’t want to have to write out some long String in terminal to install software. And sometimes it’s different depending on distro.
Most major distributions come with a software center of some kind. And with Flatpaks, AppImages, and gag Snaps, it pretty much is just click and install these days.
What’s wrong with snaps? I’m giving Linux another go so I’m still learning. I’m trying Ubuntu on an ancient iMac right now but I also have Pop!_OS in a vm on my windows pc to play with. I haven’t installed anything on pop but I noticed Ubuntu had snaps.
Snaps are proprietary to Canonical (Ubuntu). Historically, they were larger, slower to load, and generally slower overall to use With a good SSD and system, I’m not sure that’s the case anymore though.
Ohh. Thanks for that info. Proprietary stuff and forced ads are two of the biggest things pushing me away from windows right now so that’s good to know.
"I don’t want to have to write out some long String in terminal to install software. "
I’m no expert, but isn’t it literally just apt get (name of software) to download and install through terminal?
It just doesn’t work. It’s a simple as that. Things are constantly breaking. When they do I look up support articles that are written in fucking Klingon and sent to the terminal to type in commands that always return some sort of generic error “command not found” or some shit because the solution is written for a different one of the 862700422 available distros.
I have no idea how to install all the different program types (flathub, db, appimage, etc.). Windows has exe. I click “install” and boom, it’s done.
Sometimes I try to remove software in the package manager and it acts like it is uninstalled but it’s still fucking there.
I can’t even select a file because there are no previews. Just a gazillion blue squares with names like “dlcosn_3947912947”.
And other reasons, but I digress. I don’t have time to learn a new career, I just want a computer that works.
Necessity. When most of the software you use is reliant on Windows it’s hard to make Linux your daily driver. That being said, the changes needed to make it worth it are already done in limited contexts. Steam deck is pure Linux, the user interface and everything is implemented in a way that the user does not have to deal with the complexity, but the underlying mechanisms for doing wonky shit is still there if you want to mess with it. It’s kinda the best of both worlds in that sense.
If we wanted a desktop experience to replicate that, you would just have to do the exact same thing. Abstract the user experience such that the layperson does not need to engage with the complicated bits, but leave them there for those that do want them. And arguably that is being done with some distros, but it’s just not quite there yet.
Steam works flawlessly with Linux now. If you have an Nvidia GFX card then you can even get a Pop!_OS install with the driver pre-configured. It’s pretty rad!
I think it comes down to my level of proficiency with computers. I’m a photographer and an artist. However, I am above average tech literate but with absolutely no formal training compared to anyone in the computer sciences.
When I use a Mac or PC I am a power user and most people think of me as very tech inclined there. I used terminal or command prompt for commands that I have learned from Google for a specific tasks and can follow most guides and tutorials online, but I can’t come up with strings of commands creatively to fix a problem.
With Linux, there’s all these weird little problems that might be unique to me and looking them up is really difficult and when someone says “oh it’s easy. Use the terminal” as if this incredibly confusing thing that I have zero fundamental knowledge of can solve my problem. A genuinely feel illiterate when I use Linux. I can write sudo though 🤷♂️
I feel like saying “just use terminal” is like telling a kindergarten kid to just use creative writing, algebra and calculus. The fundamentals have not been taught yet, I have no idea what to do.
When I learned Mac or PC, I was shown how to use a mouse, I could read and just clicking around and opening things and reading help files let me intuitively learn on my own what to do. With Linux, this way of learning achieves nothing. Maybe I can turn wifi on and off assuming it works when I install it.
And then when an update breaks everything and I have to mess around and terminal for hours or days between doing actual work, It’s a nightmare. The only Linux thing I’ve managed to keep running for years on end is a Synology. I use it for a bit of backup things but thank goodness the OS updates and app updates all work. Nothing is broken and I barely touch the machine. It just grabs my files from the network and backs them up. You should have seen how shocked I was when I was trying to install something on docker and it took days for me to realize I just type the name of the thing I want and it grabbed it from the web and installed it automatically. I spent way too long trying to figure out how to grab the actual package files and open them like installing something via an MSI file in windows.
I am literally a Linux system admin, I bang on a command line interface for a living.
But I don’t use Linux at home, it’s just so much work. Every single thing is complicated. Last time I really tried in earnest to switch to a full Linux setup I was somewhere in the middle of a quick and easy 24-step process to get my webcam working, compiling the drivers from a modified source - and it was just a moment that broke me. Like, I’ve been working on this for an hour and I know I can do it but this is stuff I don’t even think about with windows.
So I broke down and bought Windows 10. It’s what I was trying to avoid, being a tight ass and didn’t want to buy an new OS.
I just don’t have the patience to troubleshoot every tiny thing like a big endeavor. I can, I just don’t want to. Everything I install, every peripheral I connect, it’s always a big deal getting it to work. Heck with that, not worth the trouble.
And here I use Windows and get into a blind rage within 5 minutes at how much fucking around there is getting devices working properly, and then they just drop out for no apparent reason.
I don’t think anything like this has really been the case for a long time. How long ago was this?
Bullshit… I honestly can’t believe half the comments here… so much conjecture, straight up bullshit, or opinions outdated by like 10+ years. Yours is another… if you are actually familiar with Linux, there is absolutely no way that you would put up with the lack of control and customization, the god-awful workflows, and knowing there are ads and telemetry data being sent from Windows.
The Windows command line is just so far removed from linux/mac terminal. Powershell is the closest Windows has out of the box really, and it’s a poweruser tool exclusively. Not to mention that by default, Powershell comes with aliases for common commandline inputs, so users are still not learning the correct commands and syntax.
This builds an ignorance problem, as you alluded to. I’ve done a lot in android and linux, but not enough where I can hammer away at a linux terminal and do anything but cause damage.
And I don’t think this is a “fault” in linux so to speak, but it’s an issue that needs to be overcome for most users to make the switch from something where the terminal was strictly and “optional” tool for them.
It kept working.
Linux, every time, without fail, commits suicide after a few weeks/months. It’s never something big, always small stuff. A conf file which got fucked by a package. Init.d calls something stupid. Mbr bullshit.
And the same applies to get stuff to work. It’s not hard, but researching the issue and fixing it takes time. Those issues do not exist in windows.
It gets annoying. Windows, for all it’s shit has gotten more and more self repairing over the years.
I want to work. I want to play. Now, preferably.
You have ro spend some time making things work, I don’t always have the time.
Although I’m using WSL2 with Ubuntu because of the terminal.
I tried installing Zorin amd Pop_OS on my laptop, but the mousepad gestures, bluetooth, speakers, and a bunch of other small things didn’t work.
I just don’t have the time to tinker with it. I have an hour or two of free time a day and it’s hard to convince myself to spend it trying to get linux to work whenever I have windows that just works.
Plus, i found that people just weren’t helpful. Unlike some people, i didn’t come out of the womb knowing how linux works. I did research and fixed what i could, but some things i could’t fix. People were rude, condesending, and just not helpful whenever i would ask a question
Just not worth it for me at this moment
I think the biggest thing here is how insular the linux community can be. I do think that Lemmy’s linux communities are much better about being supportive and welcoming however. Less of a dick measuring contest and more a group of people who are passionate and want to engage with the topic.
I definitely felt that. It’s demotivating to feel like you’re being looked down upon for trying to learn an OS that they themselves promote so much
I find the community can be toxic at times; instead of helping newcomers or treating each other nicely, the community can be toxic and alienate the people they want to use Linux.
This is entirely valid and unfortunate.
A few apps I needed didn’t work on Linux without a hassle and a lot of games I play with friends only run on Windows. I also found a lot of things were kind of a hassle on Linux, especially screen scaling. Fractional screen scaling straight up barely works and everything on my laptop screen was usually tiny.
I would totally go back when the experience is a bit nicer, I’m pretty frustrated with Windows. I think the Linux desktop experience isn’t totally ready imo.
Could you mention what apps you needed to run? Also, fractional scaling has been improved a lot in Gnome and KDE, afaik.
Could you mention what apps you needed to run?
I don’t remember which they were exactly but some Adobe products were some of them. Specifically Illustrator.
Also, fractional scaling has been improved a lot in Gnome and KDE, afaik.
I hope so. I’ve last been on Linux like ~2 years ago and I’ve heard some good changes.
Shit just works. I’m not dicking around looking for drivers and stuff. The way I use a computer I’m not really getting a benefit from linux
I’m the opposite. No drivers required in Linux for me. Printer just worked. Wacom tablet just worked. Monitor colour profile just worked. Etc etc etc. Everything has just worked. However, I don’t do bleeding edge video cards, so maybe that’s an issue? I have no idea. Linux though for me, has never needed a driver.
I’ve tried Linux a few times each time would seem to be good apart from gaming but every single time something I Didn’t Even realise I did broke it completely. I’d say I’ve never had linux work for more than a few months.
With windows an install no matter how inconviant and annoying with forced updates has always lasted me years. Don’t get me wrong though I hate Microsoft but I need my games and I want reliability.
To me following linux guides has mostly ended in an unbootable system.
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Quite simple: When using Linux, I tend to play around, try different stuff, switch distros every couple of month… When using Windows or MACOS, I just use it as is and don’t try to break stuff. And while I could use Linux quite easily without breaking it, my inner child prevents me from using it this way…
I just found every little thing so hard in Linux.
Screens, scaling, nvidia drivers, games… Even spent an hour on gnome trying to get my desktop background image to fill the whole screen instead of repeating to fill the space. Solution ended up being download an image editor and resize the image to be the exact same size as my screen resolution. Tried KDE and kept hitting 100% CPU bug
In the end I just wanted a pc that worked, so went back to Windows with WSL.
Seems a perfect combo. Do my dev in WSL, and the desktop just works.
However I’m getting increasingly frustrated at every UI change Microsoft make… Which is what made me try Linux in the first place. If Microsoft Win7 and early 10 was great, I wish they’d stop touching UI and just improve under the hood
I think the main difficulty with Linux desktops is this “all or nothing” approach to the OS.
Recently got a Steam Deck and most of the games really just work, but that’s a handheld where I play solo. On desktop I mostly play online with friends.
I really don’t want to constantly switch OS depending on the anticheat situation when we play something else.
And then there is software (fusion360, simhub) & hardware (3d mouse, joysticks, ffb wheel, maybe VR?) that just works on Windows.So instead of maintaining Windows & Linux on dualboot I just stick with Windows on the desktop.
And I used Linux for a long time on my laptop (and can’t wait to ditch MacOS), still use it on servers, but the desktop is just a whole different beast.Well said. I’m in a similar situation with the Sim Racing stuff. Also my daughter plays Genshin Impact and my son is just getting into StarCraft 2;
SC2 works flawlessly under Proton apparently, but Genshin not so much (anti-cheat stuff it seems). So if you share a gaming PC the question becomes even trickier to answer.