cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/22332949
JD Vance said that ‘American power comes with certain strings attached’
So… extortion then?
Yes, that’s the word.
Europe is about to experience what africa and south america have been experiencing for decades.
Buckle up.
The difference is that Europe should be more capable of resisting America. We’ll see if that actually happens but given how things have gone before when the EU went after American companies I don’t think they’ll budge easily.
Not when combined with “completely unrelated” tarrifs and psyops from china and russia.
10 years until europe falls.
Not being able to access American sites will allow local competitors to appear. Back in 2005-2010, before Facebook, there were many local social platforms and forums. For example, these are all from Romania.
He’s just being honest about US foreign policy for the last 80 years.
Holding Western stability hostage in the name of the oligarchs, good job voting everyone…
The sad part is that that also describes what the Democrats did to get us into this mess.
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You have data to back that up I assume?
Biden had polling in his hands that said Trump would get 400 electoral votes against him on the day he decided to run for a second term. Then he held on just long enough to make certain we would have no primary and be stuck with a candidate who couldn’t shake the stink of his presidency.
Harris lost the popular vote by over 4-million votes. There aren’t that many “leftist extremists” in the whole damn country, and only a small subset of those wouldn’t have voted for Harris.
The vast bulk of those who stayed home were left leaning apolitical normies. Most of the country fits in that group.
A candidate who couldn’t make it to the first primary in her last campaign for this position too! I felt what I could only describe as “meta-unease” about her.
If I felt so unmotivated, how uninspired was everyone else?
Also I think the racial rhetoric from the Dems is turning some Black voters off.
You are delusional
These autocrats have always wanted to drop NATO.
Let’s not pretend like X is their reason. Supporting autocracy is their reason, and now they’re trying to come up with excuses to get the public onboard.
Yes, but they need to repay the rat elon for all his support during the campaign. This might even be true
These autocrats have always wanted to drop NATO.
NATO is a terrorist organization led by USA. If any USA rulers want to disband it would be only to com up with a bigger and more evil organization.
So, NATO had a problematic operation, trying to establish (and coordinate the establishment of) guerilla stay-behind troops to use in the event of Soviet takeover - and the operation went especially problematic in Italy during the Years of Lead, where some of those guys associated with right-wing terrorists. The year was 1969 or so.
Basing on this, how do I conclude anything about the NATO of today?
Disclaimer: I was asked to hold an anti NATO speech during a protest event during a NATO summit. Being a moderately honest anarchist, I held a speech denouncing the practises seen in Afghanistan (the year was 2012), but emphasized that collective self defense is a valuable thing to have (a common attitude here in Eastern Europe), and added that if the alliance would bother doing what it says on the sticker, I would support it.
NATO is an alliance of various countries. Some of them aren’t nice or democratic (classic example: Turkey). Mixed bag, and constantly changing. Membership in NATO is not a letter of indulgence for a member state to do anything - allies are obliged to help only if someone attacks a member state. If a NATO member attacks someone else, allies can ignore the affair or even oppose the member (example: Turkey recently bombed Kurdish troops in Syria so sloppily that threatened US troops shot down a Turkish drone).
“According to several Western European researchers, the operation involved the use of assassination, psychological warfare, and false flag operations to delegitimize left-wing parties in Western European countries, and even went so far as to support anti-communist militias and right-wing terrorism as they tortured communists and assassinated them, such as Eduardo Mondlane in 1969”
Based on this conclude what you want about the NATO of today.
Based on this, I conclude: the NATO of today is a mostly defensive alliance with some taints in its history.
It is currently very busy doing a real job - opposing a conquering dictator named Vladimir Putin.
I wish it luck, as long as it sticks to its declared purpose. If it oversteps, I will revise my opinion.
Your opinions are certainly grounded in reality at least. It’s refreshing to read something sensible for a change.
It is currently very busy doing a real job
Yes i’m sure they are doing a very busy job like they were in their tainted history (false flag operations to delegitimize left-wing parties in Western European countries)
If it oversteps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Response
“Several of the operations were along the coast in the borders between sea and land, and together with roads and populated areas. Surveillance, patrols, road control posts, vehicle inspection, control of air space, minesweeping, evacuation of civilians, and riot control were important part of the exercise.”
If you are sure about something, then bring evidence of considerable off-label activities.
In response to your response about “Nordic Response”:
Surveillance, patrols, road control posts, vehicle inspection, control of air space, minesweeping, evacuation of civilians, and riot control were important part of the exercise.”
Those are realistic military duties in war time. Every military practises them. Where do you find a fault?
An example from real life: the Ukrainian military has checkpoints on roads near the frontline. Moving with a vehicle, you’d expect to show papers, say a few words and maybe even show transported goods. The purpose? Finding reconnaisance / sabotage groups, which every competent enemy is expected to send. If an opponent doesn’t send recon or saboteurs, they are fools. If a military doesn’t learn how to deter those, they’re fools.
How does one learn? After dry reading in a classroom: one holds an excercise. There’s a home team and an opposing team. The home team checks, the opposing team infiltrates. Both teams report what they achieved, results get compared. If the blue team found the “saboteurs”, good. If the red team “blew up” all bridges and pipelines in the area, people think hard about what they did wrong. If they don’t practise, they don’t get to think hard.
Those are realistic military duties in war time. Every military practises them. Where do you find a fault?
Where do i find a fault in conducting vehicle inspections and riot control at peace time, from an organization with a shady past involving false flag operations, psychological warfare and assassinations aimed at delegitimize left-wing parties.
Dunno buddy let me keep thinking
An example from real life: the Ukrainian military has checkpoints on roads near the frontline. Moving with a vehicle, you’d expect to show papers, say a few words and maybe even show transported goods. The purpose? Finding reconnaisance / sabotage groups, which every competent enemy is expected to send. If an opponent doesn’t send recon or saboteurs, they are fools. If a military doesn’t learn how to deter those, they’re fools.
The ukrainian military also have checkpoints in the west border to make sure any male between 18 and 60 doesn’t leave the country so that they can be forced into war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobilization_in_Ukraine
How does one learn? After dry reading in a classroom: one holds an excercise. There’s a home team and an opposing team. The home team checks, the opposing team infiltrates. Both teams report what they achieved, results get compared. If the blue team found the “saboteurs”, good. If the red team “blew up” all bridges and pipelines in the area, people think hard about what they did wrong. If they don’t practise, they don’t get to think hard.
To me this sound like military rhetoric coming from a military man. You self defined yourself as being a moderately honest anarchist, i suggest you to keep doing your anarchist readings and re-read the works of Emma Goldman and Errico Malatesta.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-preparedness-the-road-to-universal-slaughter
As if the US and a whole lot other countries are not doing Psy-Ops and other behind the scenes actions. pulling strings on the world stage.
Yeah dude! Tell them! Also tell them what was the normal operations at the time! And what are Russia and China doing today!!!
You wanting the same thing JD Vance wants should trigger a warning in your brain before you say anything else.
I said that NATO is a terrorist organization not that i want something
As a European, i say, “Please go ahead.” While I like the idea of Nato, I want my politicians to be forced to take action in creating an eu Military and not rely on Nato for defence.
Also out of curiosity, will you guys be deporting immigrants like Elon Musk? Who invalidated their visa.
Something tells me he’s not going anywhere.
We laugh at this, but I suspect someone on trumps team has seen this and thought " OMG it’s so easy!"
Well of course, we know that reading comprehension isnt strong in the MAGAhole sphere.
Y use word. Picture eazy, make sence.
Can Canada apply to join Europe?
I think we have one free chair left after UK, so…
Pretty please svp
imagine if trump seized everything he can from him and deported him for being immigrant
Not too long ago, this would be a career-ending display of corruption.
Yes, and if called out, they say it happens for freedom of speech, which is absurd given that the richest man on earth provides the infrastructure and has a large presence on the platform himself.
Yup.
In case anyone hasn’t noticed, the goalposts for norms have significantly shifted in the last decade. This is historically how it always begins.
Buckle up. Protect yourself.
Yes, and if called out, they say it happens for freedom of speech, which is absurd given that the richest man on earth provides the infrastructure, (soon) influences the legislative rules and has a large presence on the platform himself.
What a coincidence that Elon Musk paid 100+ million for their campaign
Sure that’s not corrupt at all.
This is why billionaires shouldn’t exist.
The other thing I need to mention is that is that Elon Musk is far from the only billionaire with a massively disproportionate influence on elections and society. Or even the biggest. He is just the biggest attention whore of them all.
Democracy voted for this, apparently
It’d be messed up for the government to do this even if he wasn’t a billionaire though. End corporations in bed with government.
Cool, no more need for American military bases in our countries then. Or sharing intelligence with them. Or propping up their arms industry.
There’s still that little issue of building up your own. Most EU countries have been demilitarizing for 30 years more and more, with the strategy being “it’s a new world without wars, and also big daddy USA will protect us, and if not them, then Britain and France will”. Britain has done an exit, and France alone is kinda lazy.
Most EU countries have been demilitarizing for 30 years more and more, with the strategy being "it’s a new world without wars, and also big daddy USA will protect us,l
That’s not the Europe I see now and sounds like a US President trope. I would agree that post-Cold War that was the case, but I’d say in the last decade at least, it’s not.
But, genuine question as I’m open to being wrong, saved this is an area that interests me, do you have sources for this?
Yeah, the person above isn’t being accurate at all.
While here in the UK we rely heavily on the US for control of Trident, the US dropping NATO support would just require additional defence spending and closer alignment with Europe. If Trump is bought by Russia, Putin would see this as a Very Bad Thing, and would want to keep the US in the fold because even with the US NATO would likely steamroll Russia.
The Trump dynamic is somewhat problematic, should it fester elsewhere in Europe. Globalisation was an important trait to maintain for the US, whereas most populist movements move towards buying local or supporting national interests above all else. Europe is largely self-sufficient, even in defence, so Trump would probably cut off huge numbers of imports/exports just to prop up Elon’s shitty cars.
Putin has been working to dismantle NATO for a long time though. Whether he is right or wrong, he clearly feels that the US pulling out of NATO is in his interest.
Nah. It’s a trope all right.
“For 20 years” is fine.
Britain has in no way done an exit. Going out of a trade and economic union has nothing to do with their military commitments.
To defense as part of NATO - yes.
People in Sardinia are going to be happy about this
That would work, if the EU hasn’t been sleeping on their defense, and relying on Daddy USA to protect Europe
God I hate Earth.
Earth is lovely, it’s humanity I struggle with.
Humanity is lovely, it’s politicians I struggle with.
So, the US wants to lose the only influence it actually has on Europe?
I say go for it.
France’s military industry is having wet dreams thinking about it.
If the US pulls out of NATO France becomes the biggest arms exporter of NATO and I would expect other countries will become less enthusiastic at the idea of buying US weapons systems.
Doesnt Germany also produce a whole lot while their own army is rotting away?
Here is the share of global arms export per country.
Germany, Italy and the UK are also big exporters but still behind France.
Im actually surprised that FR is so much higher. Really unexpected.
It’s not that surprising once you know that their goal is to be completely independent for their US for their military equipment.
It includes the nuclear bomb, missiles, fighter jet, aircraft carrier, submarines, even space capabilities (even if this last part has been lacking a bit lately).
They don’t have the US military budget but they want the same level of technology without any ties to the US.
It means that they are exporting a lot to compensate for the high investments they are pouring into military technology.
In his shoes, I would think twice - does their team really want to present their dirtiest laundry to the world - such as owing an election to a media oligarch?
As for the EU, it’s a massive bureaucracy which still follows its own laws. It probably won’t change track. There is no single person to change its track.
However, at this stage of the game, I have the nagging feeling that some American may downregulate Elon Musk directly, far before the EU manages to step on his precious toe.
They do not care. They are the worst people this side of Pol Pot and Stalin and still get all the votes for the republican party.
I think we should collectively block twitter on our routers and be done with it.
Just curious, I left all my tech savvy in 2008. How is blocking Twitter any different from just not using it?
You won’t generate traffic on embedded posts and you won’t inadvertently open the site clicking on links
Gotcha, thanks for answering!
x is a government platform now. Sign onto your government social media account.
Listen, if it were a government website it would be unusable for the vast majority of users, and basically impossibly to navigate, so we got that going for us. Looking at you DTS.
Now that you say this, I’m not afraid they may make all banking transactions go through truth social or x.
This is a key part of fascism, government and industry being one and the same entity.
