They apparently announced they would delete all posts related to homosexuality back in 2018 but backtracked after outrage but I guess they’ve felt its been enough time that people won’t be paying as much attention now =\

  • Muad'Dibber
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    153 years ago

    This is current line of struggle, especially between the younger and older generations. Interestingly, different sectors of the media have different approaches: CGTN for example is very progressive on LGBT issues, while weibo seems more regressive. Some good vids:

    • NXLOP
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      43 years ago

      hm, interesting thank for the links

    • @fruechtchen@lemmy.ml
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      33 years ago

      honest question:

      my understanding of china so far is that the solution to that is basically discussion in the party of china. So parties in china are very big compared to other countries and thefore the political discussion happens inside the party. big demonstrations for instance which would encourage such discussions are not that common.

      i don’t know much about how these discussions are in practice but i imagine that the older generations have much more actual power in these discussions, altough the younger generation might be present. For instance because the older generation is represented by powerful positions (Xi Jinping or Li Keqiang or something).

      Another example for this kind of struggle is (i imagine) structural sexism or female persons in power positions. For instance, i saw the list of government people on wikipedia which all are male or use male pronouns. There are zero female politicians in positions of high power it seems, for instance the president.

      So i assume the struggle works very similar to other struggles in other countries, for instance germany - politicians in power like to talk about such things but don’t actually want to change something because change usually decreases their power.

      This lack of political power leads sometimes to riots, for instance the stonewall riot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots - and i think in china something like that would be very impossible because it would be seen as danger of counterrevolution and the persons in power would say that persons can participate in the political debate in the party. therefore such demonstrations would probably be shut down very soon and people would be thrown into prison and such.

      So when people want real change (so for instance female politicians in high positions of power) instead of endless debates without changes, in “western” countries the solution to that is to start a riot to gain attention and force a response. When your voice is unheard, your only solution is to start a riot. and this is what happened at the stonewall riot.

      So in short: this is a good example why i don’t trust china. communism/socialism is interesting but the big authoritative rule in china is bad because riots and demonstrations are healthy for democracies. So for me it is very clear that communist states also have problems but my impression so far on the discussion regarding communist states is not to be open about these problems and instead give “china is great” vibes because they view people being critical with being non-communists. And to be honest i don’t know what i should think of that.

        • Muad'Dibber
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          33 years ago

          big demonstrations for instance which would encourage such discussions are not that common.

          There are plenty of LGBT groups, and they all have full rights to protest and raise awareness, just as much as unions do. One of the vids I posted above references one such group.

          i don’t know much about how these discussions are in practice but i imagine that the older generations have much more actual power in these discussions, altough the younger generation might be present.

          I’m not too aware of internal party discussions on this, but the NPC, the largest and main governing body of the does have younger members, but it does skew older and male.

          There are zero female politicians in positions of high power it seems, for instance the president.

          The NPC is currently 25% women, so they do have some work yet to do in that area. However when you compare that number to other countries, its about average. Also doing better than the US, Ireland, Greece, and a lot of others. And of course socialist Cuba is the model for all countries to emulate with respect to women’s rights.

          Also wanna mention that ever since the cultural revolution in China, the societal focus on women’s liberation has been astounding: women have received free birth control since the 1960s ( this isn’t available in the 2020s in the US), communal kitchens and child care.

          This lack of political power leads sometimes to riots, for instance the stonewall riot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots - and i think in china something like that would be very impossible because it would be seen as danger of counterrevolution

          Strikes are a fairly common occurrence in the PRC, and usually get the support of the government.

          So when people want real change (so for instance female politicians in high positions of power) instead of endless debates without changes, in “western” countries the solution to that is to start a riot to gain attention and force a response.

          This is true in all bourgeois democracies, because there is no democracy for anyone but the rich, and recourse through government channels is impossible, so only riots outside the system can address its ills. That’s not the case with the PRC, which has a fluid working class democracy. I apologize for not being as well read on those internal debates as I can’t yet read Chinese, but I’m sure they’re happening, otherwise its clear that even the state-run media like CGTN wouldn’t be so pro LGBT. And again, this is mostly a generational issue that’s not isolated to one country.

          So in short: this is a good example why i don’t trust china. communism/socialism is interesting but the big authoritative rule in china is bad because riots and demonstrations are healthy for democracies.

          Actual working-class democracy is so incomprehensible to westerners that they can’t imagine a system that’s responsive to its people without riots. This is because governments are not neutral, multi-party bourgeois democracies are in fact capitalist dictatorships, while one-party socialist states are worker’s dictatorships. I suggest reading this thread on worker’s congresses to learn about just one such organ of China’s responsive democracy.

          • @fruechtchen@lemmy.ml
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            -23 years ago

            Actual working-class democracy is so incomprehensible to westerners that they can’t imagine a system that’s responsive to its people without riots. This is because governments are not neutral, multi-party bourgeois democracies are in fact capitalist dictatorships, while one-party socialist states are worker’s dictatorships. I suggest reading this thread on worker’s congresses to learn about just one such organ of China’s responsive democracy.

            please, don’t call me westerner, altough i live in such a country. This term doesn’t differentiate between any political spectrum and simplifies a lot. Please don’t use it, at least not for me.

            For instance i organize in some leftist anarchocommunist organization and therefore i know how alternative decision making systems can work. I have experienced difficult times where these alternative form of organizing can survive. (so no power abuse and such).

            So its not about lack of imagination, its about trust. Belief in anarchism means for me the belief that every person with big power probably will abuse this power in some kind of another. I don’t think this is different in any countries.

            An actual example from i think soviet russia: i think emma goldman as well as other anarchists have visited the early days of the russian revolution (so i refer here to a book from 1924). There, she writes that there have been some politicial disputes in the communist party and instead of solving them with good consensus the bolshewiki tried to remove those people from power positions.

            The above mentioned anarchocommunist organization has not done that even with heavy conflicts. That’s the reason i trust them.

            But i don’t trust regular stalinist/leninist organizations because they have the political history of solving dispute with power abuse. I don’t trust them because the only way of preventing power abuse from any person is to simply not give one person much political power. That’s the reason why i don’t trust stalinist/leninist organizations, because they usually have a very centralist strategic approach.

            I don’t trust them because they have a strong belief that their viewpoint is the correct one, for instance when i view the work of the local Marxist leninist party. So when faced with criticism, instead of trying to understand the criticism and fixing it, they react with “this divides leftists”.

            Because of this political history, i have deep deep trust problems. It’s not about excluding rich people (that would be fine for me), it’s about actual decision making power by workers.

            The NPC is currently 25% women, so they do have some work yet to do in that area.

            I am not sure who “they” refers to, but in case it is women: i disagree, i see the most responsibility in the people having most power. Xi Jinping or Li Keqiang could stepping down from their position with the condition that a poor working class female worker can fulfill this position.

            But they don’t do it because then they would have much less political influence. And that is what i mean by political power. Xi Jinping or Li Keqiang have political power and they use it for their moral beliefs, as long as they don’t loose political power.

            That’s the reason why i am anarchist. i think many many people would act very similar as Xi Jinping or Li Keqiang in this position. Therefore the only good alternative is to reduce such positions of power or at least regularly change it.

            According to wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Keqiang this person has had political power for 10 years. That is a very long time, very similar to for instance some western government. So china has to me very similar problems in terms of power and democracy.

            Also doing better than the US, Ireland, Greece, and a lot of others. And of course socialist Cuba is the model for all countries to emulate with respect to women’s rights.

            Yes, that is no suprise and i completely understand that. But still, i see structural sexism in casea of china because i expect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Keqiang or some person in a similar powerful position to be replaced by a female worker.

            in the above anarchocommunist organization, it is very common to regularly change positions of power (for instance people talking to the press or something). This is active work against power abuse because people are not used to be in positions of power. But when you are 10 years in the same position of power, this changes your viewpoint.

  • @null_radix@lemmy.ml
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    103 years ago

    In other news, LGBT people delete WeChat and install federated opensource platforms such as matrix.

  • ghost_laptop
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    -23 years ago

    From what I’ve read somewhere I dont remember they deleted posts from a collective that was against CPC, not everything LGBT related.

      • ghost_laptop
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        -13 years ago

        Because it is different to be against LGBT in general rather than being against a group which opposes communism. Still, I although I don’t know the specifics I feel they should have been more sensible since it probably wasn’t going to be detrimental to the party.

    • NXLOP
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      43 years ago

      why even comment this if your not going to include a source? Just seems like an odd comment

      • ghost_laptop
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        03 years ago

        Because that is what I remember reading, I never said it was a fact?

  • @9toitoi5@lemmy.ml
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    -23 years ago

    this is good news…twitter can do whatever they like and so WeChat. Private company as they say.

            • What you call “communist nations” call themselves socialist. Maybe you think socialism is social-democracy i.e. Scandinavia or some parts of Europe. It’s not, as they are still capitalist.

              so maybe that’s your issue.

              I don’t see where the issue is? I pointed out socialist and communist nations in parentheses.

                • Are you saying China is socialist, not communist?

                  Yes. But first let me point out that you spoke about communism in general, and not China specifically, when you said that “so many in western countries love the idea of communism when this is precisely what it leads to” – I assume what it leads to is lgbt-phobia? Regardless, this specific argument is about that exact part I quoted, that communism precisely leads to something.

                  China does not claim anywhere that they are a communist country. They only talk about socialism, because they are not yet in a communist phase.

    • @m532@lemmy.ml
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      13 years ago

      Stuff like this makes me sad. Why do people hate teamwork? Why do they hate new ideas? Why do they hate progress? Why do they always have to look down on others?

      • @fidibus@lemmy.161.social
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        33 years ago

        I feel like apart from this being a cheap shot many people are talking about the communism of the UDSSR and modern day china when they say communism bad but ultimately don’t oppose the values that communists have.

    • NXLOP
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      -13 years ago

      has nothing to do with communism this is just authoritarians being authoritarian

      • Then is it not authoritarian when the government promotes LGBT rights against popular lack of support? Say if a population was highly phobic and the government said “whatever, gay people can marry now”.

              • We’re just gonna run in circles here so let me just leave with this:

                No. Does the U.S., for example, force gay marriage, or merely say it’s “allowed”?

                That’s obviously a false equivalence. Who is out there forcing people to gay marry lol. Government passes legislation and that is in itself an authoritative act; in the case of passing legislation to make gay marriage legal, this went against the wishes of the homophobes – authority was enacted against them (and it’s a good thing). This is not a judgment, but an observation: all governments are authoritarian by nature.

                • @AlmaemberTheGreat@lemmy.ml
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                  13 years ago

                  Only if you don’t know what being authoritarian means:

                  Authoritarianism is a form of government characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of a strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in the rule of law, separation of powers, and democratic voting.

            • @AlmaemberTheGreat@lemmy.ml
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              13 years ago

              Normally you’d then vote the government out of office (or directly rewrite the law, like it’s possible in Switzerland).

              That is pretty hard though when there’s only a single party to vote for.

            • @TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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              3 years ago

              I do not know about authority, but you seem to be far more than just an ignorant bypasser who wants to act like they know all about communism. I bet your knowledge stems from the Victims of Communism Foundation.

              • @AlmaemberTheGreat@lemmy.ml
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                03 years ago

                Okay. So I’m gonna be here too. My knowledge, in this case, is from my older family members who where alive when Hungary was still a socialist/communist country (hardcode communist until 1956).

                And I’ll tell you, it was not good at all.

                • @TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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                  -23 years ago

                  Yea, Hungary was a colonialist power in partnership with Austria, and was also part of 8 Nation Alliance. Not sure what kind of communism they did, as a country that was through and through coloniaist.

                  Why are you deluding people with your dishonest political “nuances”?