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Yes.
Rationale?
Venus fly traps are not animals.
/end thread.
That’s the whole debate, OP. It’s solved with this short exchange.
But they eat animals.
Fungi are more closely related to animals than plants. Are they vegan?
I think you need to look up the definition of of “vegan.” It’s not based on what your food eats: you can’t call eating a grass-fed cow “vegan.”
Fungi is also not animals.
Veganism is about sentience
If you could operate a series of trolley problems regarding sentience for the average vegan, would a somewhat quantifiable hierarchy arise?
For example, would a vegan save one human over three pigs, or over 100 pigs?
If a vegan could use vegan means to prevent the death of all mosquitoes without upsetting the ecology of the planet Earth, but the mosquitoes would then start infecting more humans with hazardous but non-deadly diseases, should the vegan attempt those means?
Yes
Fungi are more closely related to animals than plants.
I bring this up too. What my kid asks, “what is vegan?”, and my wife says, “someone who eats plants”, then I shout from across the room, “and fungi!” Tbh no one is amused but me.
There’s nothing hypocritical about eating fungi! I just want recognition for the fungal contribution.
Vegan here. Interesting question! I think you’re going to get a different answer depending on the vegan you talk to. Personally, this is the definition of veganism I subscribe to:
“Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.”
By that definition, for me, it is not vegan. If the VFT has been grown by humans, and fed insects, then that is non-vegan, because there was a lot of animal suffering that went into growing that VFT. Furthermore, VFTs are not required for sustaining the human body, so the only reason to do this is for human pleasure or something.
Edit to add: if the VFT was found in nature, I probably still wouldn’t consume it, because 1) I don’t even know if VFTs are edible 2) if they are, I’ve got better food with me that probably caused less animal suffering, and are less morally ambiguous.
Thanks! A legitimate answer, other than people calling me a moron.
I’ll admit, this was a ‘is a hotdog a sandwich’ kind of question.m, but I learned something too!
I believe there are some vegans who won’t eat figs because they absorb the body of a certain type of wasp. I forget the details, but the point is - it probably depends on the vegan
One key detail of that is that the figs contain the bodies of that type of wasp, so you’re technically still eating an animal if you’re not extremely careful.
Is that not also true of the fly trap?
As far as I know, the vegan prerogative is to avoid harming any living creature, and avoiding eating animals comes downstream of that. I think other vegans believe eating any animal for any reason is immoral, but I’m not really sure of their rationale.
So on the one hand, you might be able to convince a vegan to eat roadkill…
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Yes. They aren’t digesting meat, they are absorbing potassium and fixed nitrogen. The plant cells are, well, plant cells.
Maybe a better case study would be figs since people actually eat those. From what I’m seeing in search results there is some difference of opinion, but maybe the prevailing opinion is that figs are fine for vegans because they are not intentionally exploitative or cruel to animals.
If the VFT was grown for human purposes such as eating then no it would not be vegan, as they require a small but steady stream of bugs to grow. Though if you found a feed alternative like a nutrient pill then I guess it could be vegan. As for a VFT found in the wild then yes it would be vegan, anything it has consumed in the past wasn’t done so for your sake.
I think you made a typo in your first sentence. I think you meant to say it’s non-vegan in that scenario.
Thanks for letting me know, fixed.
Yes. It’s a plant. Made of plant things. In the same way that plants that are fertilized by dead bodies would also be vegan. You aren’t eating meat. The plant is receiving sustenance from breaking down that organic material but you aren’t.
Meat is literally dead bodies, which we derive sustenance from.
Harvested plants would be considered dead (plant) bodies, so where is the difference?
The best argument I’ve heard so far is the one around sentience, but that gets confusing too, since plants react to stimuli and grass can signal other plants it’s being eaten.
No no. I mean if a plant is nourished by dead animals who have died near them. Or in some places where animal bodies are used in fertilizer.
I feel like whatever the answer is, it has to be the same as “is eating mushrooms vegan?”
In the same way as eating a cow is not considered vegan even though the cow only eats grass, yes eating a plant that eats flies would still be vegan.
Which side of the debate were you on, OP?
Both, but with a leaning towards ‘not vegan’
Edit: thank you for all the thoughtful replies from the people who downvoted but left an explanation!
The more I think about this question, the more complexities it creates. I am not a vegan, so I can only guess what the average vegan would think…
- If you eat a plant that causes harm to a living being like an insect, are you doing a moral good from a vegan perspective because you are reducing harm?
- Would it be morally good for a vegan to use vegan means to prevent more harm to animals?
- Would it be the ultimate moral good for vegans to hunt down every wild Venus flytrap and consume them?
- What if the Venus flytrap only ate insects that significantly harmed animal or human populations by spreading diseases?
- If vegans could alter the environment using non-vegan means, in such a way that bats stopped eating mosquitoes without upsetting the overall ecosystem, but these mosquitoes started spreading a terrible but non-deadly disease in humans, would it be moral for them to do so, or would it be immoral for them to avoid it?
Unfortunately, I don’t know the calculus a vegan uses when placing value on the life of a human versus an animal, so the bat mosquito thing is entirely up in the air for me up in the air for me
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