I recently moved to California. Before i moved, people asked me “why are you moving there, its so bad?”. Now that I’m here, i understand it less. The state is beautiful. There is so much to do.
I know the cost of living is high, and people think the gun control laws are ridiculous (I actually think they are reasonable, for the most part). There is a guy I work with here that says “the policies are dumb” but can’t give me a solid answer on what is so bad about it.
So, what is it that California does (policy-wise) that people hate so much?
It absolutely has a lot to do with Right wing/Republican propaganda, California, Chicago, and New York represent everything they hate so they constantly use both states and that city as negative talking points.
One point they constantly make is that New York City is a crime riddled hellhole, meanwhile NYC has one of the lowest crime rates in the entire country, and one of the lowest murder rates, it’s just a massive city with a massive population and everyone there has cameras so when stuff happens it goes viral. Also the Red States tend to have much higher crime and murder rates.
All in all this is usual conservative/right wing tactics, they constantly want to isolate and segregate themselves from other ideas, and aren’t afraid to take over where other people live to exclude the people already living there. This is why Idaho, Texas, Florida, and Utah have similar campaigns about “don’t California my state” and by “California” they mean don’t bring your “liberal/socialist/Communist/woke/progressive/democratic” outlook to their states, because they don’t want to be responsible for cleaning up the racism and various other problems that the red states seem to have adopted as their identities.
Also I know quite a few conservative Californians and New Yorkers that recently moved to Texas and Florida, and as conservative as they thought they were they actually talk about moving back to where they came from because of how it is in their new states, except for the fact that they moved to the new states because they can afford so much more than what they could in California.
Overall my point is, if you consume right wing media then you are conditioned to hate blue states, and particularly those blue states are Cali, NY, and the city of Chicago as well as DC, I’m not saying these places are without flaws, but I am saying that the propaganda and disinformation about those places has amplified the hate towards those places and their residents.
As a very left leaning individual who does not like California my reasons basically come down to all the benign neglect of the homeless (leaving people to rot in the streets with their fentanyl addictions isn’t progressive, assholes) the militant oppositions to building housing anywhere (progress is being made but it’s like pulling teeth) and the huge focus on performative laws that effect 0 actual change.
… Notably these are all problems in other states too. Most of them just use police to lock them up instead. Not better.
But California rubs me the wrong way because they act smug about it.
California also has more homeless than other states… Reasonable weather and they don’t get thrown in jail? Homeless people migrate here for those reasons.
I also wish we did a better job… It’s not that California doesn’t spend money on the problem… It’s just the money we have spent has been ineffective. If we could get more housing first options maybe it would be better? It sucks though to go downtown sometimes.
California is also the dumping ground for Republican states who ship their homeless and refugees out of state. Every one of them does it so they can claim there is no homeless crisis.
The amount of Californians who blame everywhere else doesn’t help.
90% of the homeless in California were there when they lost their houses. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_California
And the problem is y’all refuse to build housing or shelters. 2/3rds of them are unsheltered. Housing costs are why they’re homeless.
NYC has the other concentration of the homeless (and a lot of problems with the housing market as well) but at least 90% of the population has shelter.
I don’t disagree. We should be building low income housing and we should approach homelessness with housing first.
I love affordable housing but I’ll settle for market rate.
It’s a national problem but it’s definitely more pronounced the more a place has grown, and Cali just keeps growing.
As California goes, so goes the nation. Conservatives don’t like this.
If it wasn’t for the high cost of living, I’d move to California as well. Still hope I’ll make it there some day.
Poor republicans are butthurt
They watch a lot of Fox Entertainment.
Same reason people don’t like Florida. Lots of targeted negative media coverage. Conservatives think California is a shithole where homeless people are everywhere and people don’t get arrested for robbing a store at gunpoint. Non-conservatives think Florida is full of hard-core Trumpers who want to ban all gay people from existing and is like a redneck 1984.
Reality is more nuanced. Both states are very large populations with a diverse makeup. But nuance is hard to convey in headlines. I personally live in Florida and love it, even though I hate DeSantis with a passion. The people here make up for the shitty politics. And the pendulum will inevitably swing back to the other side.
But nuance is hard to convey in headlines
This 100%. I’d also like to bring up that population distribution has a lot to with it. Across America, rural communities tend to agree with each other and urban communities agree with each other. A person living in Miami and someone living in LA would probably agree with each other politically than someone from LA and someone living in a rural community in North California.
The main issue comes from whether or not the majority of the state’s people live in cities or the countryside. I live in a mid-size city in TN and almost everyone I know, including our
governormayor and local leaders, are very left-leaning. But because most of the state lives outside the cities, it doesn’t really matter. Sorry, this comment turned into a rant haha 😅deleted by creator
Whoops, meant mayor. No, fuck Bill Lee for a hundred and one different reasons
Yeah wtf is this dude smoking? Bill Lee isn’t on the Trump or DeSantis level(yet). But he’s wayyy right leaning. Outside of Nashville, Memphis, Chattanooga, and Knoxville this state is as red as it gets.
Yeah meant to say mayor, I corrected it in the original comment haha my bad
deleted by creator
Is there an alternative to DeSantis?
Not this last governor election but the one before it was a close race between DeSantis & Andrew Gillum. Gillum lost by a very small margin although some months after the election he was caught having sex with a male prostitute in a hotel room smoking meth. This was obviously unpopular, especially since he espouses family values and is married with kids.
The next election DeSantis won more or less unopposed and the electoral map of Florida looked like one of Reagan’s maps where he painted the whole country red.
DeSantis’s popularity seems to be dropping like a rock, however. A) he’s trying to challenge Trump, which has been a bad idea for any Republicans who want to be elected in the last few years B) he’s engaging very heavily in culture war which is financially hurting Florida and people are starting to see it
He’s trying to fight Disney, one of the main reasons Orlando is a major city. He’s passing anti-illegal legislation where Florida has some of the highest rates of illegals and Latinos in the country - essentially guaranteeing price increases and inflation for all sorts of manual labor intensive services. Ie construction, landscaping, etc
And of course housing prices are skyrocketing with Florida having the highest inflation in the country, topping 10% last year.
And while Floridians are struggling to pay rent, his messaging is focusing on “anti-wokeness” and he’s turning down federal aid money.
Essentially DeSantis had a chance to be relevant nationally and he’s throwing it all away while also pissing off his entire base in Florida. He thought he was untouchable and his overconfidence, I think, is backfiring.
So going forward what will happen in Florida? It’s hard to say. If there’s a good candidate from the Democrat side, they have a chance. However Gillum did stain the Dem reputation for a while in Florida.
Covid brought a lot of “anti-vaxxer / anti-lockdown” migrants so the Republicans have a good ~400k highly politically motivated new voters. However like I said, the Republicans policies are hurting Florida economically and that’s never a good way to win elections.
From what I’ve observed it has to do with the fact most people do not know how to party, something California knoes how to do very well.
As a tourist from Canada, my wife and I drove through parts of the US for about three weeks in 2018, and we absolutely hated California. It was our least favourite part of the trip. It is clear that LA is struggling with massive homelessness. The roads were the worst ones we encountered on our road trip. The beaches were littered with garbage, to an amount that we just found disgusting. They were also incredibly overcrowded, though that is what happens in heavily populated places. We went to Disneyland, and that was nice. However, we did cut our California stay short and moved on.
Now, I don’t have many places to compare California to, as we were only in about four states. However, we have travelled extensively in Canada, where we have been to most of the provinces. We enjoyed the states and provinces we have visited. However, California is definitely in our no-no zone for vacations.
Again, this is a tourist perspective. I do not really know what it’s like to live there.
Everyone is just bringing up economic reasons, but none of them are really policy directly. The economics are a good reason to hate California, but they dont have policies that really drive this. The real key is that California is a massively desirable place to live. The beaches are only second to Hawaii. The weather is arguably the best in the world. Some of the most beautiful state parks. It’s one of the only places you could surf in the morning and snowboard in the afternoon. Supply is limited, and demand is high, so you get high prices.
As for actual policy, California has a progressive mindset. This leads to a lot of progressive policies. The problem tends to be that the policies that get enacted are often designed to sound progressive, but actually just limit the citizens without fixing the problem. Examples:
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Coal rolling was bad for the environment. So they outlawed a large amount of car tuning. This causes damage to the car culture and a good hobby for a large number of citizens.
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Water, being a limited resource in California, made it finable to water your lawn or wash your car in a drought, even though farming and business use 96% of total water usage. Normal people water usage isn’t going to solve the problem
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Gun policies that dont allow suppressors, short barrel rifles, etc, but in reality, the vast majority of gun crime and accidents are all based around handguns.
I have oversimplified all of these, but essentially, California is very good at making policies that annoy their citizens, but dont solve the problem just to make it appear like they are doing something.
Coal rolling was bad for the environment. So they outlawed a large amount of car tuning. This causes damage to the car culture and a good hobby for a large number of citizens.
the “downside” you state is actually a benefit to society
Water, being a limited resource in California, made it finable to water your lawn or wash your car in a drought, even though farming and business use 96% of total water usage. Normal people water usage isn’t going to solve the problem
i do agree that agricultural and business uses are a bigger deal than lawns or car washing in terms of water use, and the fact that almonds are farmed in california is a goddamn travesty, to name but one example. however, lawns cause or exacerbate way more problems to a much greater extent than you probably realize, and reducing how many of them we have, ideally in favor of local ecology if not just denser land use patterns, is a much greater benefit than you’re giving it credit for. california’s zoning codes have also been improving in this regard, though they’re still… not great. point is that i do agree with you that that policy doesn’t focus where it’s really needed, but it’s also not as useless as you think.
Gun policies that dont allow suppressors, short barrel rifles, etc, but in reality, the vast majority of gun crime and accidents are all based around handguns.
a fair critique, but also, far fewer californians per capita die to gun violence vs. the national average. i’m sure other factors play into that, but it certainly isn’t evidence that the policy hasn’t helped.
now, i’ll give you two examples of my own. early in governor gavin’s term, he was given a bill called “complete streets” that would have dramatically improved pedestrian and bicycle infrastructure throughout the whole state, and he vetoed it. and that sucked major ass. but then he went ahead and signed sb50, which forces all municipalities in the state to build some actual goddamn housing, and specifically dense housing near transit. and i’m a huge fan of that. san jose has really jumped on it with gusto and has actually had their average rent drop somewhat, although the bill is still relatively new and its benefits aren’t likely to really be felt for a while yet. my main criticism here is how tons of the cities here are so nimbyed out the ass that it took the state government’s intervention to do literally anything about the housing crisis.
there is much to critique about california, but not all california critiques are created equal.
California sounds like if you bought a European Union from wish.com
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California is cool, I just don’t like LA. It’s dirty, crowded, has traffic 24/7, and everything is expensive just to name a few reasons.
Granted i only spent 10 days there in March last year (our air bnb was in Silverlake), but I fuckin loved it. Not so much Downtown, didn’t spend any time in Hollywood either.
I don’t know that California is super disliked (maybe politically if you’re conservative?) - I think its among the great states in the US and while I may have some political disagreements with what California has done (Prop 13 for one has distorted the housing market despite good intentions) and it has awful mass transit and zoning, its the vast majority of the US west coast. It’s got amazing scenery, food, people, and its an economic powerhouse. I am from NY, and love NYC, but its not nearly as important to the country as California and the economic disparity between urban and rural isn’t nearly as bad as in NY state.
It’s more that a lot of people move out from California and trash-talk it to anyone who will listen. This happens with everywhere, but because CA is so populous it has more people doing this than other places.
Though, IMO, the weather sounds terrible to me.
That’s such a nonsensical statement to make about a state the size of California. Just the 3 main coastal cities have vastly different climates, and that’s not even getting into the highly varied ecosystems found inland. Are you thinking specifically about the weather in the LA area?
Might be Fresno area.
LA weather sounds bad, heat and smog.
SanFran weather sounds bad, always the same temperature.
The northern part sounds bad, too much rain.
All of California has a pronouced dry summer with low humidity, no thanks.
Sorry, but that’s just not true. California’s coastal areas are hugely impacted by moisture blowing in from the Pacific. San Francisco’s historical average humidity in August is above 60% and the temperature rarely goes about 80.
If it’s rainfall you want, just go a bit further north. Coastal Northern California receives about as much annual precipitation as Seattle. You can find basically any climate you could want in the state – trying to make a blanket statement is pointless.
The weather is one of the largest reasons people migrate to california.
Even if your homeless, its of the few states where you could be outside year round and not die due to the more extreme points of weather that you would experience in mamy other states
Exactly. I prefer more variety in my weather. I need the highs and the lows, the sun and the snows, the days when wind blows, y’know?
Yeah, I joke that California does have four seasons - they’re just Summer, Wildfire, and Mudslide. Possible Earthquake to shake things up.
But to be fair, it is a long state. SoCal gets most of the attention, but NorCal gets some great seasons as you get closer to the PNW
Do you think all of California is Death Valley, or what?
Never been to California, don’t hate it, but don’t exactly have a super high opinion of it as an outsider either. My personal reasons are
Much of the state has had a water crisis to one degree or another for most of the last century. That seems like a pretty clear sign that the environment can’t really sustain the amount of people and industry it has, and yet we keep at it.
A lot of the state is prone to earthquakes, wildfires, mudslides, and other crazy shit. Again, seems like a less than ideal place to live.
The climate really isn’t for me, I personally like cold winters with snow, that’s not really a thing in a lot of California.
I’m from the northeast, I happen to like the overall vibe of people from this part of the country, west coasters have a different vibe, not necessarily a bad one, but it’s not one I want to surround myself with full-time. Some (but not all) people get really snooty about the East vs West Coast thing, and while it definitely goes both ways, and I’m certainly biased because my experience is pretty much entirely from the east coast perspective. It seems to me like when that happens west coasters activity dislike the east, whereas the east is more indifferent towards the west.
Politically I overall tend to agree with the trends in CA in broad strokes, but it feels like they go weirdly overboard in some things (like the prop 65 warnings) and take weird half-measures in other. That’s not a unique California problem, but because they’re such a political and economic powerhouse their missteps have bigger ripple effects than most other states. I think overall most of the country could stand for our laws and policies to be more California-like, but we shouldn’t be holding California up as some sort of gold standard to copy exactly, and I think that’s a distinction that is lost on some people.
It’s also expensive.
California has more snow than any state but Alaska IIRC.
Yeah good fucking god it bothers me how people just think California is just Palm Springs and LA. It’s has the most micro-climates in America and the Sierras get shit tons of snow.
I mean you have to live on a mountain to have a cold winter. Thats not exactly realistic.
Basically all of California is on, around, or surrounded by mountains so discounting that is just being arbitrary about what counts. Is California like the plains states? No, but it has snow, it has ice, and it has a lot of it and in more places than you think. The deserts even get snow and can be colder than anywhere.
Cold winter isnt when it snows sometimes. Its a type of climate. Which doesnt exist in california except at the tops of moutains.
I was in the Mojave desert last winter and it was 15° F not including wind-chill. Cherry picking some irrelevant map doesn’t work. I know where I live, and certainly know it better than you and your terrible Google-Fu. I’m leaving this slap fight now. Enjoy your real winter ☃️ 💪
You did it; you confused weather for climate. Next, you can disprove global farming by watching it snow.
It only gets down to like 40-50⁰ where I live. I drove an hour north to my buddy’s house and took the fam to spend some time in the snow.
Or I could drive 2 hours to the ocean.
Went to San Francisco and California in general for the first time this past May. I’ve grown up in the suburbs on the East Coast with a very conservative family.
They were all losing their minds when I told them I was going to go. They were convinced I was going to get 16 times a day.
The city and state as a whole was absolutely beautiful (visited Yosemite and got engaged). There was so much to do that I had never experienced as someone who grew up in the suburbs. There was only one time we felt a bit uncomfortable but we were aware of the situation and had plans to get out if need be.
We rode public transportation (the horrors!) the whole time without any problem.
I know it’s not perfect by any means but to me the problem is fear mongering by the likes of Fox
While traveling in the South I was surprised to hear the exact same conversation in every diner I went into. It was whatever scare point was on the news the previous day. And nobody was debating the merits of the clams they were reciting, they were just agreeing with each other and bringing up the next claim. It was like it was a scripted conversation that they had started every time I walked into a greasy spoon restaurant.
I think it’s more important for people to be up on their current talking points than to look at anything critically, especially not look into what their “news” media tells them is happening. And a lot of that seems to revolve around how terrible California is, I’m not sure why besides creating a very “large and powerful, controls Hollywood and the narrative” other for people to be worried about. (Surprisingly the exact same narrative control that dominates the diners in the South)
