Battery backed seems odd. I just got a regular induction stove and it’s great. No idea why someone would choose to use gas. Oh well, their lungs are not my problem.
Very probable that the apartment doesn’t have enough amperage to support typical electric induction stoves.
Oh yeah, weak US grid.
That said my house is 62A and doesn’t have any problems, even with a heat pump. I had my gas connection removed.
The battery means you can run a 4-burner stove on 120v, which avoids the need to rewire apartment buildings
It can also keep the fridge running in an outage so there is that as well.
Will they have good enough cookware? And not thin aluminum dollar store junk without the steel insert?
Probably. Induction-ready cookware is cheap and widely available.
I love electric stoves. So much more efficient, and you don’t have to pay a monthly bill just to have the option to use it. You pay for what you use when you use it. Wish they were available in more places.
I’d consider the health benefits a bigger benefit than the energy savings. Less chance of getting asthma and/or cancer is a pretty big boon.
It’s also a safety upgrade, as the risk of fires is much diminished.
The battery induction stoves are pretty neat. You can plug them into a normal 120v outlet instead of needing to rewire. Plus they can be battery backups in the event of power outages.
How long can you run them before they run out of juice, though? I’m not sure I’d want to have “range” (pun intended) anxiety making Thanksgiving dinner.
You know, I’m not sure.
But “range” anxiety gave me a giggle so thanks for that.
How long can you run them before they run out of juice, though?
They run by either an electrical outlet or by battery. Another article stated the battery backup for its induction oven was one hour. Hardly worth being a feature.
Just a shame how expensive they are. Copper stoves (the ones that won the contract in the article) start at $5,999. They’re a small start-up without economy of scale on their side, but that still just seems wildly overpriced for an induction stove with a lithium battery stuck inside.
To put that price in perspective, an electric convection toaster oven that can handle most oven needs can be had for $150 to $250, and a high quality countertop induction cooktop can be had for $116 (or less used), both of which run on standard 120v outlets.
Standard 240v induction
ovensstove start at around $850.Still probably cheaper than retrofitting a building with gas pipes 🤷♂️
For a larger building, that definitely could be the case.
Induction oven? How does that work? Is it better than a classic electric oven, does it ‘just’ heat up faster?
Sorry, I guess I meant stove, not oven. I tend to conflate to the two. I think all induction stoves have standard heating element ovens.
Ah that makes more sense 😁 cheers and a happy new year!
Also some newer ones have temp sensors so you can keep a thing at the exact temp you need.
I saw one with magnetic removable knobs to make cleaning easier.
Also the outlet bits make installs drop-in for anyone, no electrician needed.
Also some newer ones have temp sensors so you can keep a thing at the exact temp you need.
I swear by induction cooking (for both soapmaking and food) for this reason - precise temperature control, even low temperatures that aren’t even possible to get on a gas stove.
- Setting the heater to exactly 40C means you can melt chocolate reliably, without the hassle of a bain marie
- At 60C you can combine cetostearyl alcohol and vegetable oil for moisturizer without boiling off your glycerine
- At 80C you can cook soap to trace without overcooking it and making it lumpy
- At 100C you can evaporate moisture and reduce a sauce with minimal effect on other ingredients
- At 100-160C you can cook a sugar syrup to a precisely desired level of concentration (as the boiling point goes up as the concentration increases) for making different types of candy
As an added benefit besides the environmental ones - you can’t blow out a wall and collapse a house with careless use of an induction cooker. :)
This is important for those replacing gas or propane stoves and don’t want to add the cost of running a 240V line that most resistance and induction ovens require.
OK this makes sense. It answers my WTF reaction at the thought of a battery-backed range.
Still doesn’t make much sense, though.
Induction stoves are $1000. 5kwh of batteries are $500, retailing around $2000 in the form of a power station. So, let’s call it $3000 total. The Copper Charlie goes for $6000. That extra $3000 is enough to have a 240v circuit installed by an electrician.
For real? In Europe one can get induction for less than €200. Significantly less. And a “real”, full size one, 4 spots. And adding an oven adds additional €200.
I think you’re comparing the price of a cooktop to a cooktop/oven.
You’re right, I’ve updated my post.
To answer your question, induction stoves are a premium product in the US. Only newer houses are wired for it, and they’re more likely to be configured for separate cooktops and ovens. So there’s not much available on the low end. If you’re on a tight budget, you’d want gas, which is far cheaper to run, and gas stoves start around $300.
For comparison, in Australia, gas and induction are at price parity (a budget 4-hotplate setup costs about $200-300 either way). You can buy a single-plate induction cooker for $50 that plugs into the wall and has a temperature configurable from 60-200 C.
Edit: Stopped markdown converting Centigrate to Copyright symbol
PS: Also, electricity is cheaper than gas in Australia, because we have so much rooftop solar, electricity is soon going to be free during the midday peak.
I also see those batteries going bad and complications in the future with such a complicated system rather than a dedicated 240v circuit.
What makes it seem convoluted? It’s slightly more complex than a standard electric stove, but we have and use countless devices on a daily basis with this technology. Very rarely do they have any issues with the charging/discharge circuit.
Yes, the batteries will eventually need to be replaced, and it could be an issue during Thanksgiving (etc) when a ton of power is needed all at once. But I really think you’re overestimating the usage it will get.
In any event, this is why they’re running it as a pilot. Any real-world issues will come to light before a larger rollout.
Has the text changed? I can’t find any reference to 240v
I think this is the new section?
The winning submission came from Copper, a California-based company which designed a battery-equipped induction stove that plugs into a standard 120-volt outlet. That means the units can be used in existing NYCHA kitchens without the need for major electrical upgrades.
Ditto. I wonder if it could be more of a big capacitor, or if it is.
Seems to be LFP pack. Safe and long-lasting.
What’s so hard about 240v since it takes a thinner wire compared to 110v?
North American 240v is different from the rest of the world. You use single phase, we use split phase, which means our 240v has two hot wires instead of one. To retrofit a 240v circuit in, we need to run a new cable with an additional hot wire from the breaker box to the kitchen, a new set of breakers, and a new socket.
Still sounds easier than fixing old gas plumbing, and again, the current is lower so the wires are not thicker they’re thinner.
And I’m certainly not keen on running a big battery that will be next to heat and needs replacement approved by landlord every 3-5 years, plus having to own expensive pans.
What do I know, I never owned electric stove and I don’t want one.
For new construction, nothing.
For existing construction, it requires you to run a new circuit.
There are some pros and cons like better for environment and health but also some people might think more about electricity being more expensive. Although, because of how efficient induction stoves are, it might be closer than I thought
Those batteries can be used to provide backup power when the grid goes down.
https://electrek.co/2024/02/29/induction-ovens-with-big-batteries-solve-lots-of-problems/
I did not know this exists and I love the idea. However, the author clearly never has used an induction stove: “Because of this, they are more efficient than typical electric resistance stoves and also safer because the surface of the oven doesn’t get very hot.”
I actually thought both of those points were true.
Nope. Had induction. The ceramic gets just as hot, because you heat up the metal on top and the metal is touching the ceramic, thus it gets hot. Enough to cause severe burns.
Sounds like you didn’t have induction but had a normal flat top stove with electric burners.
Your mom says otherwise.
I’m would not trust her to know the difference since she’s never had one.
The video of the stove setup seems great till they get to the part that you have to connect your stove to WiFi and pair it with their phone app. This means I’m never buying the Charlie stove.
If it was just a standard Matter device, I’d be fine with it. But fuck one off apps for smart devices. They are always shitty, and always get neglected or abandoned.
Yeah I’m using homeassistant first thing I do with devices is change firmware or change their phone home server address so they don’t leak data.
I love how all these authorities are stacking 21st century requirements on top of 20th century infrastructure.
it’s like charging your electric car from your 120 year old knob and tube house.
There’s an unspoken racial element to the removal of gas stoves.
If you need to cook with a wok for 15 minutes or char some peppers, you’re destroying the environment. But if you need to run an electric oven for an hour to bake a pie or casserole and create 10x the carbon footprint, you’re saving the environment.
And no, woks don’t work as well on induction, unless you have those spherical induction stoves that aren’t available outside of China. And an oven broiler is no where as good for charring peppers.
Edit: Love it when people who don’t even own a wok will try to explain your own ethnic cuisine to you, whitewash the kitchen, and then pretend to be concerned about your health when it’s always been about control.
I’m from Hong Kong, which statistically has the longest lifespan in the world. We use gas stoves just fine. Stop pretending that it’s anything other than the lack of universal healthcare that’s killing you.
Theyre replacing a bunch of low-end gas stoves that couldn’t do the kind of heat that people use for a that kind of wok cooking anyways.
Why do people act like not using a gas powered stove is akin to stripping away some fundamental right?
I grew up in a part of the world where electric stoves are the vast vast majority and have been since the introduction of electricity. We cook just fine. Chill.
Wanna know where this cruel, backwards part of the world is? It’s fucking Tennessee.
Why do people act like not using a gas powered stove is akin to stripping away some fundamental right?
Because change is bad.
I’m not (just) being snarky. People get defensive when something important to them changes, even if the change is for the better.
And food, and cooking food, is extremely important to most people.
This isn’t just about saving the environment, but sure. There’s also the public health element of removing a major source of indoor air pollution that’s detrimental to the residents of these units. These units aren’t equipped with range hoods that can adequately ventilate the space, even if they’re being used every time someone cooks.
I had no problem buying a portable induction wok “burner” outside of China; they were literally $50 USD at our local Costco a few weeks ago and that was including the kinda-cheap-but-more-than-adequate stamped carbon steel wok. I didn’t even go looking for it and it found me. I’ve also had no problems charring peppers, onions, or ginger by just placing a pan over the stove element and sticking them on the pan when it’s hot.
So? If you can’t figure out how to adapt your cooking methods to other hardware, that’s a skill issue.
Did you know that NYC has a ban on using coal for cooking indoors? Except that there’s a carve out for pizzerias that already had coal fired pizza ovens. New Yorkers are crazy and I just eat pizza in NJ. I ain’t eating coal pizza.
They’re coming for our gassssss
So they are replacing gas stoves because of pollution (article notes it), but adding a bunch of wildly over-priced e-waste (WiFi stove? GTFOOH), adding random fire risk (Lithium-Ion batteries are notorious for this), and doing so at tax payer expense. Nice.
I feel like the $60M (plus labor/install costs) they will spend on these stoves for 10K homes would probably do a good deal of fixing whatever the reliability issues are, in the current gas environment, without wapping 10K stoves. We all know it’s not "for the environment), it’s “who knows someone on the board at that startup selling these stoves”.
fire risk
Some I checked are using LFP batteries. LFP aren’t a fire hazard. Not sure if all of the stoves use LFP but I’d say it’s likely. Using non-LFP is significantly more expensive and they die much quicker.
Fuck the WiFi.
LFP batteries are safer than NMC. But LFP batteries can still catch fire, explode. They can’t be extinguished with water. They produce very toxic gasses. In the event of a structure fire, they remain in place, while a building’s gas supply can be turned off.
Right now everyone is installing enormous batteries everywhere with little concern for fire hazard. My suspicion is that as the number of fires, and death toll, climbs, we’re going to see increasingly strict regulations on large batteries, ultimately outlawing everything from power stations to electric cars from multi-unit residential buildings.
