By this i mean, grandma checking her email and the IT pro with 10 NAS setup are the perfect linux users.

But us in the middle who pretend we’re smart…its a damn hard road. And then helping others to switch when youre not yet a pro is even harder, though a good learning experience.

Getting games to work perfectly, audio issues, Bluetooth issues, vr setups are far harder to do, running older obscure software, hooking up obscure hardware, using external drives, music production, these are some examples of things that will be extremely hard on linux vs windows for the majority of middle users.

However id say it is worth it if you like learning thousands of weird terms and phrases and putting in many hours of frustration to solve a problem. (Have you tried using floop to Docker the peeble?). It is very satisfying fixing an issue and figuring out why it happened!

Still, when im forced to use windows I see how bad its become, so im sticking with linux!

  • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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    2 days ago

    Wait until you see what a headache Windows is. Half the time it can’t log me in without a restart.

  • Hawke@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    It seems only natural…

    • the “grandma”/casual users never try anything complicated or different so nothing goes wrong.
    • the “pro” users either know what they are doing well enough to not make a mistake or to fix it when it goes wrong.
    • the middle users will always have it harder, they are trying things beyond the margins of “easy” so of course things go wrong and they don’t know how to fix it.

    Anecdotal example: just yesterday I found out that I broke my file picker function in five out of six web browsers, by loading an Xcompose file with some definitions that GTK apparently doesn’t like. It took me about 5 hours of poking at things to figure out that a change I did a week ago, broke a function I hardly ever use. So I did fix it eventually but I it took me a week to notice and then hours to track down what was going on.

    Is there any chance at all that the casual users would be using a compose key, let alone loading a custom definition file for it? Hell no!

    But here’s the secret: there is nobody out there who is the perfect expert who never makes a mistake and knows all things. We’re all out here pushing boundaries; the only difference is where those boundaries are.

  • utopiah@lemmy.ml
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    4 days ago

    and the IT pro with 10 NAS setup are the perfect linux users.

    Well I’m closer to that. I’m an “IT pro” (I pay my bills by writing software) and I did learn CS at uni… and yet it’s STILL damn hard!

    I think that might be the part that “grandma” (bit sexist and ageist there but going with the example) finds it hard is a given but that professionals are struggling daily is somehow hidden away.

    I can give you examples from just yesterday :

    • my deGoogled Android phone rejected my SIM card yesterday “SIM 1 not allowed”
    • my home IoT server stopped working

    and few others smaller problems. So… I had to find ways to fix that which lead me to learn that :

    • some bug into HomeAssistant (my IoT server gateway) led me to restart its container, without having to restart the device itself
    • my Android ROM has a “Reset Network Settings” within the “Reset Options” menu

    The irony is that some people who are not professional might even know about the later one but I didn’t. So… my whole point :

    TL;DR: IT is hard for everyone because it’s complex (lots of moving parts) and always changing (“updates” are not just “better” but different) so we ALL must keep on learning.

  • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
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    5 days ago

    You’ve used Windows for so long that you don’t remember how it was when you first started using it.

    This isn’t different than what you are doing with Linux. The flow gets better and better and you will acquire the experience needed to navigate the issues. It takes time, that’s all.

  • MimicJar@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    But us in the middle who pretend we’re smart

    The trick you’ll learn is that everyone is just pretending. The more your learn the more you realize you don’t know.

    • Hawke@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      This applies outside of IT just as much, maybe more. It’s the rare person who will admit it though.

  • monovergent@lemmy.ml
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    5 days ago

    Still, when im forced to use windows I see how bad its become, so im sticking with linux!

    That’s the right attitude. A lot of the comfort of Windows comes down to habit and mere exposure. Every Windows user who dives beyond the surface also spends a lot of time learning, but with the added burden of having to sift through every forum post suggesting sFc /ScAnNoW. And if you keep the same hardware for a few years, the Linux experience ages like a fine wine as drivers improve and features get some subtle polish.

    Sometimes I wonder if my health takes a toll each time I help someone set up Windows. I can literally feel my heart rate increase as I go through the privacy-related settings.

  • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
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    4 days ago

    all that said, linux could use some more “intermediate” tools.

    windows is surprisingly decent in that aspect too. service managers, cron managers, startup managers, a good task manager, all by default.

    this would help intermediate linux users quite a lot.

  • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    I had a crisis too some years ago, when Windows 7 was the shit, I heard Windows 7 was very good (for Windows).
    So I tried to dual boot Windows 7, goddam a load of crap!! I’ll never believe anyone claiming Windows is good again.
    The structure of security is a bloody mess, providing worse security, while taking control away from the owner of the system.
    And lack of package manager makes it ask for updates at the most inopportune moments. Just a tiny program like Adobe reader was super invasive, and was a major pain in the ass.

    Windows is not in any way user friendly, it’s just what most people are used to.

    • N0x0n@lemmy.ml
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      4 days ago

      Window XP was probably the best and last good Windows version… 10 was kinda okay without all the telemetry shit and bloatware.

      Windows 11 feels like macOS with extra steps + spyware on every move, click, clipboard copylpast… Wouldn’t go near that stuff even with full protection and debloat ^^ Just remove that shit and install linux instead.

        • N0x0n@lemmy.ml
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          1 day ago

          Yeah I feel you… Sorry about that :/ ! At work you probably don’t have a choice, however at home, you are free to choose whatever makes you comfortable.

  • gray@lemmy.ml
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    5 days ago

    I keep breaking my setup when I update my Nvidia drivers. Feels like shit, but I am never going back to windows

  • Tehhund@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    This is very true. Linux is great if you just want to check email, or if you want to compile your kernel or dig into incredibly esoteric config files. But if you want to do something between those 2 extremes, the learning curve is extremely steep. My Windows box and Mac Mini both do all the things I want them to, but my Linux box keeps breaking and I don’t trust it with anything important. I usually try to do things on Linux first, but when it inevitably breaks I switch over to Mac and get it done in a tenth of the time.

    I’m sure I could get my Linux box to do everything I want. I’m busy and I don’t want to fight with it and spend all my time learning about its eccentricities. I want to point and click and occasionally modify a text file.