still not as aesthetic as Waterman butterfly projection
(and relevant XKCD)
Came here to make sure that xkcd got posted. Well done.
Faithfully projecting a globe onto a flat surface is impossible and all projections have to balance a number of compromises. Mercator retains compass directions and the shapes of land masses but entirely sacrifices relative scale between equatorial regions and polar regions. This makes it great for navigating a 17th century vessel. Other projections strike a different balance, like this one, and sacrifice compass direction and land mass shapes in order to perfectly retain scale. On this map, my little Arctic island looks like someone stepped on it.
IMO a balanced projection will compromise on all the nice properties a projection can have, and if that isn’t acceptable, then get a globe.
By signing the petition you take a stand against a false narrative that downplays Africa’s vast size and diversity as the second-largest continent, reducing its perceived importance in global politics and economics. You can correct the narrative.
I’ll be real here, I have no idea what these people are talking about. The way Africa looked on maps has never had any bearing on my or probably anyone’s thinking of how important the continent is in global politics or economics. If someone thinks “country/continent looks small so they must be unimportant,” they are either a child or a fool. Or both.
I somewhat agree, Africa never looked small imo. However Russia, Greenland, Canada etc are so comically oversized that it absolutely makes a difference imo.
Its a distorted representation of what the Earth looks like, and regardless of the way the sphere of our Earth is displayed on a 2D plane, it will always be distorted.
I don’t see any tangible benefit from changing what has already worked and is globally accepted for many decades. It seems kinda nitpicky, or like these people are clout chasing or something.
Worked for whom? The countries that are over-represented in the current map? Or the countries that started this petition?
Uhh… everybody.
If it was working for everyone, there would never be a widespread movement that got Mercator largely phased out of education.
The way Africa looked on maps has never had any bearing on my or probably anyone’s thinking of how important the country is in global politics or economics.
Africa isn’t a country though, it’s a continent with dozens of independent, distinct and diverse countries in it.
And one possible impact of the continent being represented much smaller than it really is, is people thinking of Africa as a single country.
I meant continent. My bad.
No worries - the general point still stands though I think 👍
The fact that you say Africa is a country kind of speaks against your argument here, wouldn’t you say?
I meant continent, it was a mistake.
Fair enough. Could’ve been a Freudian? Cause it looks so small?? 😀
This is such a garbage take. There is no way to “show our world as it truly is” in two dimensions. I’m all about showing other projects and orientations. Classrooms should have “upside down” maps and Albert maps for example. But we should also teach that each projection has benefits and drawbacks. I was taught that decades ago. Have we stopped?
Its the same take that’s applied to any party seen as a “status quo”. Your boss, the CEO, police, the state, movies, everything is “projected” to show something that it isn’t to subtly manipulate the basis of your decisions.
What? Map projections are not projected to manipulate you psychologically. They are projected to manipulate a three dimensional object onto a two dimensional surface.
I didn’t say they were made for that. They are used for it tho.
99% of people dont know that there other projections. I dare you to ask people which map projection is their favorite.
Ideally yes we should stick to standard and make sure everyone knows thay there are many variants and none of them perfectly represent the sphere were on but thats not happening.
I don’t believe that 99% figure for a second. Unless geography is removed from all curricula worldwide. Even still, that ignorance would not signify what this movement implies. It is a useful map; end of story. If the movement were, “We should increase public knowledge of geography and how projections work,” fine. But it isn’t.
i think the best solution (besides globes which are impractical on screens/posters) is having no standard, expose kids in school to 3 or 4 different projections so they learn there’s no standard and all protections are as valid and all with drawbacks and advantages.
Yeah I had a Peters Projection map when I was young and there wasn’t any big deal over it, somehow I just assumed everyone did.
You’ve unlocked a weird memory. The Windows CD version of Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego did exactly that. It had that map screen where you’d pick where to chase the bad guy, and they used different map projections. I can find screenshots of the game showcasing a Mercator, Robinson and Goode Homolosine projections. And it’s not different editions of the game, it would change between missions.
I don’t get it,
from my memory of geography class in 5th to 8th grade, in elementary, we extensively learned about all kinds of maps, and projections, so teaching kids 3-4 is huge downgrade.didn’t mean only teach 3-4, just to not regularly use one projection. use a handful so no one instinctively learns to accept one.
even though you learned a lot of maps, it’s likely most maps you used when not learning about different projections were the same.
Most likely, because I would guess that >90% of my up to date (after middle school) use of maps was highly localised to plaxe of interest.
Which doesn’t really show projection type (or brings relevance of it to surface).
It’s a bit hard to find out where it actually originated from and who’s behind it. Judjing by their social media handlers, it’s a marketing agency Hello Makeda. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t trust marketing agencies to be good judges on geographical projects.
They are only using the cause to promote their brand social responsibility probably. In any case, the issue with the distorted view of the map that ideologically and politically benefited one side has been known for decades, and most of the countries that were colonies now use the correct one.
The Mercator projection was great for navigating oceans, baring remain correct. There are thousands of other map projections that do a better job preserving size, shape, directions, and distances. Any projection will be a tradeoff between these.
As far as I know the Mercator projection has mostly fallen out of use in education, and I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.
I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.
Don’t give the right any ideas. They’ll be on about “geometric purity” or other such nonsense. Or anything but Mercator will just be “woke.”
“The woke liberal left wants to changes maps to make America smaller! Cause they hate America! We will stand against this liberal assault on American sovereinty with the new Trump Map, which shows the true size of America compared to every other country! Order your new Trump Map today for 399.98!”
Nah they all use the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection
yeah, most of the world already moved on from it, but its still being used in many texts and countries.
DYMAXION MAP OR GTFO
EDIT: details
It has less distortion of relative size of areas, most notably when compared to the Mercator projection; and less distortion of shapes of areas, notably when compared to the Gall–Peters projection. Other compromise projections attempt a similar trade-off.
More unusually, the Dymaxion map does not have any “right way up”. Fuller argued that in the universe there is no “up” and “down”, or “north” and “south”: only “in” and “out”.[9] Gravitational forces of the stars and planets created “in”, meaning “towards the gravitational center”, and “out”, meaning “away from the gravitational center”. He attributed the north-up-superior/south-down-inferior presentation of most other world maps to cultural bias.
This looks like when you see a weird, unflattering picture of a celebrity. Earth just woke up and hasn’t put its makeup on and you put it on blast like this
Each region on a dymaxion map is absolutely fine though, it’s just when you put it all together it becomes god awful.
A butterfly map is a better compromise if you need a world map.
If you have a physical Dymaxion Map, you make each vertex a hinge so you can swing to connect the bits you want to be adjacent for the purpose at hand.
Okay… but doesn’t this just introduce the issue of flat maps distorting anything to the east or west of center in a different way?
If it’s already distorted, switching to a different distortion that’s area-preserving can still be an improvement.
Hm… personally, I think it’s very situational, but generally I feel like a more accurate shape is more important than size. I especially feel like it would be important for children who are just learning the map.
Did you read the website? The Mercator projection is not accurate at all.
Yeah, I did read the website. Did you? Or is it that you didn’t read my response? One of the two has to be true, considering the website is entirely focused on the size of the rest of the world in comparison to Africa, and never once mentions the point I made and you disregarded.
CMV: this movement only matters to stupid people, and does not qualify as something “I should know”.
maybe a little abrasive in tone but i don’t totally disagree, this is kind of fucking dumb and i don’t understand why i’m seeing this everywhere rn.
mercator hasn’t been ubiquitous in decades and when it is used today there’s usually an actual reasoning, however valid one decides it to be.
what the fuck are these people talking about?
a campaign for this? what, are we going to campaign to cease the use of subway maps next because they give a dishonest sense of size and scale of metros?
this feels like weird distraction bait from things that actually matter.
Yeah, I’m open to any valid arguments for why it would matter, but I haven’t seen any. People who think land size should correspond to representation are…to be more diplomatic: not making any effort to think things through.
I’ll split this into two:
only matters to stupid people
People who are interested in geography, geometry, cartography, political science, geopolitics, culture, cognitive biases, ethnocentrism… generally not a low IQ cohort.
and does not qualify as something “I should know”
Ironically this might be true, just not for reasons that are flattering to you…
People who are interested in geography, geometry, cartography, political science, geopolitics, culture, cognitive biases, ethnocentrism
I maintain that none of those people are the ones interested in this movement, and if you believe they are, you haven’t spent any time thinking about it. Again, I’m looking for any actual legitimate argument in support of it. A condescending argument from hypothetical authority isn’t going to cut it.
Why does the map on the website need that draggable divider when both versions show both types of projection?
I was wondering the same thing.
You can’t see the reduced size versions inside the originals? They’re outlined in a different color.
That’s what I’m saying, both versions show both outlines.
The coloring changes, but both show the same information.
Probably a very difficult thing to program? The color changing is a good workaround.
I just thought that it worked well with as a static image.
But maybe someone had a bit of fun doing that divider effect.
Yeah, that’s basically what I was thinking.
it’s still a very strange design
Obligatory West Wing Gall-Peters Projection link
I’m in the one and only line of work where Mercator makes sense, and even I hate Mercator.
what line of work?
Shipping and petroleum - got an old Ikea Mercator map behind me for quick looks and estimations.
I kinda like the Winkel Triple or Kavrayskiy VII projections. They look a bit more natural compared to the Mercator.
Mercator distorts landmass to fit the grid, so it is good for navigation, simply draw a straight line between two points and follow it. Also, the plea on that site is just…weird. Africa is not taken seriously because it is displayed too small on maps - what? It is a large, chunky continent that can be compressed without too much detail loss - Europe, not so much.
Maybe Greenland’s size on the projection is what got Trump all worked up. :P
Yes, but thats only for navigation. The map was chosen to be used as the standard in colonial time, because it brainwashed the colonies to believe that the people subjugating them were from great and big countries on the other side of the world. There would be a lot more revolts if people actually knew that they were being held captives by weak dudes from some small european piece of land that was only a fraction of the size of their country.
