cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/33704049
Wanted to add, “Fuck Cars!!”
Car payments for decades of one’s life are not the way to go.
I remember talking with some Americans a few years ago, they worked in the tech industry, so definitely on the upper side of the income range. And even they said they were feeling the crunch around 2022-2023. I can only imagine how it felt for the regular people.
Quite the contrast with the official numbers which claimed the American economy is growing. Let’s just say that the election outcome was not surprising.
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$150k household income is not enough to afford a house, middle class standard of living, children, and retirement savings since you don’t have a pension. at least in my area.
it’ll get you lower middle class, maybe.
I’m not saying these people should be having money issues, they need to budget appropriately. but what used to be possible 20 years ago just isn’t now, you need to choose one big thing to drop, whether that’s a detached house, children, expensive hobbies, trips, etc
there’s too much shifting of the goal posts for what middle class is, I think it has slipped too far downwards
Imo the entire concept of the middle class should be abandoned as capitalist propaganda. There’s the rich and there’s the working class. Anything else is a distraction to keep us from focusing on the rich stealing from the workers. Bezos owns a $500,000,000 yacht while thousands of his employees rely on government assistance programs which are funded by taxes he doesn’t even pay.
Owning class, working class and then you do have a mid point of worker/owner class. Their money comes partly from their labour but also partly from their wealth
Those at the midpoint still have to work to live, so they are working class. 🤷
At some point it’s more that they want the extra money than they have to work, and they own so they are also the owning class
If they don’t have to work to live, they’re no longer working class (Musk still works at Tesla, but clearly doesn’t need to). But I’m not sure what your point is. Are you saying that those who derive their wealth from the labor of workers but who can’t afford a yacht should be treated differently than billionaires? I’m not arguing that we shouldn’t have progressive tax rates, I’m only saying that an arbitrarily defined ‘middle class’ exists solely so that you and I are distracted by exactly these discussions, and provides no benefit to determining what is justifiable economic policy.
What this article fails to mention is that all houses within 2hrs of the San Francisco Bay Area are close to a million dollars plus at least 1k a month in property taxes. With insufficient public transportation cars are a necessity
Yeah public transit in the bay area is famously trash. You just need one more lane.
Move to sacramento and spend six hours each morning on the commute so you dont have to use amtrak like some cucked little bitch who likes to sleep and read.
I qualified for a needs based preschool for the kid. The cutoff was 11k a month. They consider anything less to be struggling. It seemed laughably high, but it must be based on what they’ve surveyed.
Credit cards and car payments must be part of that. We have neither type of debt and get by with a fraction of that need cap! But the average car I see around here is either a new F150 pickup or a Dodge Charger, neither of which come cheap.
I was curious what this might look like, so I ran some numbers. It would be easy to hit this in a high cost of living area where rent will easily run 5-6k per month, but what about a medium cost of living place? I assumed a family of 4 with both parents working for 75k each and a 20% total tax rate (FICA, federal, state). All of this is based on what I know of typical cost of living items in the US.
After Tax Income (monthly) 10000
Housing 2500 Child care 1500 2 Car Payments (25k each) 1000 Groceries 800 Medical (incl. insurance) 800 401k (6% deduction) 750 2 Student Loans (30k each) 700 Utilities 400 Auto Insurance 300 Total Core Expenses 8750 Leftover for Discretionary 1250
So, you’d have 1250 per month to cover clothing, auto fuel, dining out, pets, fun money, subscriptions, activities for the kids, gifts, etc. You could easily run that to zero or below every month.
Now, there may be some room to cut in this budget, like not funding your retirement and giving up your 401k match or living in a much smaller home. But I would also say some of these numbers are very generous. Rent could be over 3k, most people don’t have a 25k car loan, if you own your home you can get hit with random major repair costs, and probably most parents would laugh at my estimated child care cost.
I think a key takeaway here is that kids are really expensive. Aside from the child care costs, most people with kids will want a little more living space than is doable in an apartment and kids go through food and clothes like crazy. You could probably chop at least 2-3k per month off this budget if it was a couple living in an apartment closer into the city core, with shorter commutes and maybe even options for public transit, biking, or walking.
Childcare is closer to 1500 per child, FYI, at least in Jersey.
It’s $500/week/child near me.
I have friends who quit working. Two kids in daycare, you got a clear 30k take-home to make it work, and if you’re barely making it work with that, on top of killing yourself, that income stream just doesn’t make sense. It’s dumb.
I had a friend who was the director of a YMCA daycare, and I have no idea how they kept functioning. I crunched numbers and they barely had enough to pay their teachers. She made jack shit. It was crazy. And we still paid a fortune to go there.
Yeah, I was guessing that one might be way worse than that. When my kids were born, it was cheaper for my wife to quit working than to pay infant rate child care, but that was a long time ago.
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Amazing. Class war between poor and middleclass while billionaires laugh all the way to their private jet
POV: You’re a USian on disability benefits who is just assumed to be able to survive on 12k a year whilst being literally disabled and unable to do most things healthy people can. And now people with 150k a year, 10 times my income, are complaining. 👁️👄👁️
There’s room for all of us to be angry. I think it’s reasonable to complain if you work 50 hours a week for that income, have to be away from your family, who also need to be housed and clothed and to eat and care for their health, and all you have is scraps left over and aren’t saving much, if any.
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The system is designed to keep everyone living cheque to cheque
Felt that when the UK started talking about the cost of living. I remember someone on TV crying about how they couldn’t afford food on their £35k salary. This was several years ago too.
At the time I was having to live off £8k in apprenticeship wages.
Disability benefits? That’s not real. I think you’re thinking of “bureaucratic dead ends”.
Only 3 718$ payments left on my car and I paid off 4/5 credit cards. Turned them all off to. Just being slow with my Best Buy credit card.
I know this is going to go against the “everything is terrible” narrative. But unpopular opinion - these people are just dumb. If you are making 150k per year and struggling to pay your bills, then that is your own fault. Live somewhere cheaper. Buy a cheaper car and learn to do your own repairs and maintenance. Cook your own food. Dont rack up credit card debt. And dont have kids if you can’t afford them.
I’m sure some people in the comments will all be like “no, no, you dont understand - it’s impossible to save money even at $150k incomes!” Bullshit! There are people who manage to get by on minimum wage. Or on $50k per year. Or hell, on $100k per year. I managed to retire at 31 and never broke the six figure mark. Now, I’m a cheap bastard and basically dedicated my life for 8 years to giving my cubical the middle finger - but if it is possible for me to do that, then yes, it is completely possible for people making $150k to not go deep into debt. It is absurd that I have to not only say this, but defend it against delusional doomers who just want to say that literally everything is hopeless and no one can ever get ahead.
Yeah, no. You know all the brand spanking new lifted pavement-princess pickups you see everywhere? Those were bought on credit. You know how DoorDash and McDonalds continue being profitable despite being absurdly expensive these days? They can do that because people keep paying them! Or the shopping malls that continue churning out shit fast fashion clothing that will disintegrate in 6 hours? Lots of them are packed on the weekends!
Straight up: outside of some very unusual circumstances, if you are bringing in $150k and still can’t keep up with your bills, You. Are. A. Dumbass.
I agree except the reason they are making $150k is because they aren’t living someplace cheaper. Move to cheap rural and there’s no job. Companies are forcing back to office even when it makes no sense.
Our housing shortage is a serious issue, and we should work on resolving it.
But at the same time, this is still not a real reason. After all, many people live in these same places with lower wages and still don’t go into debt.
Again, there are certainly people out there for whom it truly is not their fault. Like, they’re underwater on a house they bought in SF when prices were at their highest and have to stay there to take care of their ailing mother who can only see one specific doctor in the whole country - or whatever. And while these cases are tragic, they are not the majority.
The majority of these cases are going to be people who made a conscious choice to live beyond their means, who are unwilling to tighten their belts and give up their luxurious lifestyles. Yes, there are outliers. But most of these people are, like, suburban moms working as project managers in Omaha who are driving their new Buicks to Starbucks every morning. Sorry, but I don’t have sympathy for these people. Buy a used Toyota and brew your own coffee, it’s not that hard!
Not to detract from the statement being made but many people will sign away all their money regardless of their income.
Yeah, this seems like part “things are bad” and part “I’m bad with money.”
If you are free of debt and have just $10 in your possession, you are financially ahead of approximately 70% of Americans.
We don’t make this much but do make enough it seems like we ought to be easily comfortable (two good salaries, cars paid off) but -
How did we get here? Nobody comes out the gate making that much, we each started out making little to nothing, then went to school, had kids, got school debt and a credit card for the monthly deficit, paid off the school debt, the credit card still paying on so long after. It’s still the deficit debt, for emergency situations that come up. I funded HSA so those are not usually medical now but dogs, car repairs, house repairs. We are making progress but it’s dead expensive and slow to do so.
Basically those people making so much and credit card debt may be paying off their path to making so much.
And I know better than to complain, having been in much worse situations.
I find car insurance more outrageous than car payments.
Uh, if you’re struggling making $150k a year you’re just piss poor at managing money. My wife and I make less than that and have almost paid off everything and we are about to go pay cash for a new vehicle in the $70k range.
Wtf are those goons doing?!?
Yes and no. I lived in the Bay Area of California, 150k salary would not fly in some parts. Fifteen years ago I knew a gal in college that lived in SF, she and 3 others were splitting $5k a month for a pretty standard 3/2 house.
I now live in small town Texas (much happier). For $150k a year I could live like a king.
Having medical problems. Paying for kids in college. Surviving past financial mistakes they made when they were younger and not as informed.
Or trying to live meagerly in California.
Skill issue. Bought a house recently and our combined income at the time was a little under £50k. Honestly not even struggling, my bike cost £600 once and that was over a year ago.
