- cross-posted to:
- opensource@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- opensource@lemmy.ml
It’s only a proof of concept at the moment and I don’t know if it will see mass adoption but it’s a step in the right direction to ending reliance on US-based Big Tech.
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I wonder how much work is entailed in transforming Fedora in to a distro that meets some definition of the word “Sovereign” 🤔
Personally I wouldn’t want to make a project like this be dependent on the whims of a US defense contractor like RedHat/IBM, especially after what happened with CentOS.
I read the sovereign to mean something like an unified platform for EU institutions, that you can dev and train people on.
dependent on the whims of a US defense contractor like RedHat/IBM
A very good point.
Shame that Brexit happened, otherwise they could go with Canonical’s Ubuntu
Why restrict it to EU and not Europe?
Or better still, somehow make it universal and not subject to the whims of one political nutbar.
I didn’t know red hat was working for the US government. Can you tell me in what way?
At the same time, Red Hat released the first version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 2.1. The Army deployed Red Hat’s operating system in its Blue Force Tracker system, which lived in jeeps and tanks on the battlefield. Major General Nicholas Justice, the man responsible for Blue Force Tracker, said later:
“When we rolled into Baghdad, we did it using open source.”1
To this day, the U.S. Army remains one of Red Hat’s largest customers by volume. Red Hat was recently made part of the Army’s Common Operating Environment, which is their enterprise standard.
Thanks I’m gonna have a deeper look into this then😇
I didn’t know red hat was working for the US government. Can you tell me in what way?
tldr: https://www.redhat.com/en/solutions/public-sector/dod
Various documents in (what wikipedia now calls) the “2010s global surveillance disclosures” showed that many components of NSA (and other Five Eyes partners) infrastructure is run on RedHat Enterprise Linux.
According to a 2008 study by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, private contractors make up 29% of the workforce in the United States Intelligence Community and cost the equivalent of 49% of their personnel budgets. RedHat is part of that industry.
It’s often illuminating to search a company’s job listings for words like “clearance”. There are currently only eight listings for that query at RedHat but sometimes they have many more. Here (archive) is a current one. Here is another one archived last year.
Here is the text, in case the archive site loses it
Consulting Architect, TS/SCI + Polygraph Clearance Required (Fort Meade)
remote type Remote
locations Remote US MD
time type Full time
posted on Posted 30+ Days Ago
job requisition id R-038935
About The Job
Red Hat’s Public Sector Consulting team is looking for a Consulting Architect with a solid background in Linux, container platforms, IT Automation, virtualization technologies and an active TS/SCI + Polygraph security clearance to join us remotely in Maryland. In this role, you will help Intelligence Community customers design and operate core infrastructure that can scale to the demands of the modern digital marketplace. You’ll work with customers in small teams to build, test, and iterate over innovative application prototypes attached to real business value. You’ll use a variety of modern application development practices, along with emerging technologies from open source communities to get it done. As a Consulting Architect, you will help us become the defining technology company of the 21st century built on open source principles. You’ll also help us to fulfill our vision by guiding the strategic success of our customers using Red Hat’s solutions by building the industry’s best team of open source developers and partnering with our customers to build the premium software systems of tomorrow.
This position requires frequent on-site work at Fort Meade and an active TS/SCI + Polygraph security clearance.
What You Will Do
- Deliver successful discovery, analysis, and design workshops for teams of technical and non-technical backgrounds that shape the customer use cases and architecture design decisions
- Scope delivery projects and guide customers through successful pilot and production deployments
- Oversee the design, creation, and delivery of content that enables the broader Red Hat teams to sell (presales), service (consulting), and support our cloud solutions at scale
- Work closely with product business, product engineering, consulting, technical support, and sales teams to ensure excellent customer experience with Red Hat’s offerings
- Contribute to the development of repeatable methodologies and tools designed to scale Red Hat’s services capabilities, promote repeatable customer engagements, and lower delivery risk
- Demonstrate expertise in cloud and DevOps communities by producing outstanding whitepapers and webinars, code contributions to relevant projects, and speeches at industry-leading conferences
- Work with customers on the writing of business justifications if needed
- Work with the open source community to engineer labs-based software solutions designed to further accelerate our customers’ success at Labs
- Become a trusted adviser to our customers, helping them achieve business success in an ever-changing technology landscape
What You Will Bring
- Active Top Secret w/ SCI security clearance + Polygraph
- Broad knowledge of Red Hat OpenShift, Red Hat Ansible Automation Platform, and Red Hat Enterprise Linux
- Broad and deep technical experience with virtualization, container, and cloud technologies
- Solid Linux system administration skills; Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)-level Linux skills or better; certifications are a plus but not required
- Experience with cloud technologies, especially Red Hat OpenStack Platform, Amazon Web Services (AWS), Microsoft Azure, and Google Compute Platform (GCP)
- Extensive technical experience with virtualization, especially Red Hat Virtualization, VMware vSphere, Microsoft Hyper-V, and Citrix XenServer; VMware Certified Professional certification is a plus
- Solid debugging, troubleshooting, and general problem-solving skills
- Great customer service skills and desire to make users successful
- Positive attitude, ability to work as part of a team, and excellent written and verbal communication skills
- Deep understanding of working with DISA, FISMA, NIST, and STIG security guidelines and how to adhere to them
- Experience working within the US Department of Defense (DoD) and US Intelligence Community (IC)
- Ability to make on-site customer visits
The following are considered a plus:
- Practical experience with Red Hat Satellite or similar systems-management technologies
- Experience with Red Hat Ansible Automation Platform or other IT automation and configuration management tools like Puppet or Chef
- Experience with datacenter automation tools and processes
- System administration or datacenter architecture experience
- Windows system administration
- Ruby, Python, or PowerShell programming experience
- Ability to study and learn quickly and put new topics into practice
- Passion for open source software
#LI-REMOTE #LI-AL2
The salary range for this position is $138,350.00 - $228,310.00. Actual offer will be based on your qualifications.
Pay Transparency
Red Hat determines compensation based on several factors including but not limited to job location, experience, applicable skills and training, external market value, and internal pay equity. Annual salary is one component of Red Hat’s compensation package. This position may also be eligible for bonus, commission, and/or equity. For positions with Remote-US locations, the actual salary range for the position may differ based on location but will be commensurate with job duties and relevant work experience.
About Red Hat
Red Hat is the world’s leading provider of enterprise open source software solutions, using a community-powered approach to deliver high-performing Linux, cloud, container, and Kubernetes technologies. Spread across 40+ countries, our associates work flexibly across work environments, from in-office, to office-flex, to fully remote, depending on the requirements of their role. Red Hatters are encouraged to bring their best ideas, no matter their title or tenure. We’re a leader in open source because of our open and inclusive environment. We hire creative, passionate people ready to contribute their ideas, help solve complex problems, and make an impact.
Benefits
- Comprehensive medical, dental, and vision coverage
- Flexible Spending Account - healthcare and dependent care
- Health Savings Account - high deductible medical plan
- Retirement 401(k) with employer match
- Paid time off and holidays
- Paid parental leave plans for all new parents
- Leave benefits including disability, paid family medical leave, and paid military leave
- Additional benefits including employee stock purchase plan, family planning reimbursement, tuition reimbursement, transportation expense account, employee assistance program, and more!
Note: These benefits are only applicable to full time, permanent associates at Red Hat located in the United States.
Diversity, Equity & Inclusion at Red Hat Red Hat’s culture is built on the open source principles of transparency, collaboration, and inclusion, where the best ideas can come from anywhere and anyone. When this is realized, it empowers people from diverse backgrounds, perspectives, and experiences to come together to share ideas, challenge the status quo, and drive innovation. Our aspiration is that everyone experiences this culture with equal opportunity and access, and that all voices are not only heard but also celebrated. We hope you will join our celebration, and we welcome and encourage applicants from all the beautiful dimensions of diversity that compose our global village.
Equal Opportunity Policy (EEO) Red Hat is proud to be an equal opportunity workplace and an affirmative action employer. We review applications for employment without regard to their race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, ancestry, citizenship, age, veteran status, genetic information, physical or mental disability, medical condition, marital status, or any other basis prohibited by law.
Red Hat does not seek or accept unsolicited resumes or CVs from recruitment agencies. We are not responsible for, and will not pay, any fees, commissions, or any other payment related to unsolicited resumes or CVs except as required in a written contract between Red Hat and the recruitment agency or party requesting payment of a fee.
Red Hat supports individuals with disabilities and provides reasonable accommodations to job applicants. If you need assistance completing our online job application, email application-assistance@redhat.com. General inquiries, such as those regarding the status of a job application, will not receive a reply.
(source)
Thanks I’m gonna have a deeper look into this then😇
But it’s a good starting point. Better than inventing everything from the scratch.
If the EU were concerned about the US jurisdiction of Linux projects it could pick:
- OpenSuSE (org based in Germany)
- Mint (org based in Ireland)
- Manjaro (org based in France/Germany, and based of Arch)
- Ubuntu (org based in UK)
However if they didn’t care, then they could just use Fedora or other US based distros.
I think it would be a good idea for the EU to adopt linux officially, and maybe even have it’s own distro, but I’m not sure this Fedora base makes sense. Ironically this may also be breaching EU trademarks as it’s masquerading as an official project by calling itself EU OS.
Mint and Ubuntu have Debian as an upstream, don’t they?
Debian is a US legal entity, so if it was required to sanction countries, it feels that software built with it would likely be restricted.
Debian is open source though. So unless they make it closed source we can keep using it.
Making it closed source would probably kill it and a fork would take its place.
Well, all the distros being discussed are open source - it’s kind of a requirement when making a linux distro because the licences require it and you wouldn’t be able to make it closed source. (Unless there’s a huge shift in the law)
And being open source doesn’t necessarily prevent it falling under sanctions legislation. I have seen a linux distro being legally required to “take reasonable steps” to geo-block Russian access to its repos, and I’ve personally read disclaimers when installing linux that “This software is not allowed to be used in Russia”. (That distro is ‘owned’ by an organisation that was controlled by a single person, so it’s probably not comparable to Debian) We’re all technical people so we can all probably think of half a dozen ways around that, but it was still ordered by the US Government (even before the current government)
And you may be right in that it would be excempt. Debian isn’t owned by anyone, but its trademark is(Software in the Public Interest), and it feels possible that those who help distribute foss (by mirroring repos for example) may be restricted if they fall under US jurisdiction. I don’t know for certain - and unless someone here is a qualified lawyer specialising in software licences as well as how software rooted in the US relates to sanctions - we’re all probably guessing.
Three months ago any of this would have felt ridiculous - who would want to stop free software? But now? In this era of the ridiculous? I certainly feel unsure about predicting anything.
I still don’t see how the US can stop anyone from forking Debian etc.
Worst case scenario I can see is “The US implements martial law, no more trade what so ever allowed with anyone outside of the US and they put up a fire-wall to block all internet”
In that scenario we literally just pull Debian from the European mirrors, fork it and create NewDebian.
Problem solved.
Currently we heavily rely on Microsoft, Apple etc. If the US does the same thing, we’re fucked because we can’t just fork MS or Apple software.
We’re an ingenious and motivated bunch (See all the Redhat attempts to stop clones, and lots of other examples), so yes, I think we’d absolutely work around the problem if it was to happen.
And fedora is controlled by IBM. What’s your point.
Point? I was replying about Mint and Ubuntu - what has Fedora got to do with them?
How about systemd ? Aren’t all distros kinda fucked?
Fair point about systemd, or any of the other core components - I don’t know.
But I don’t think we’d be fucked - we’re ingenious and motivated and have a proven record of adapting and innovating to solve problems that stop us playing with our toys.
I’d add:
- Mageia (French)
- Zorin OS (Ireland)
- Ufficio Zero (Italy)
Last option but better for an easy migration: linuxfx.org
Why Fedora? They’re basically Red Hat in a trench coat. I’d go with a EU based distro like Suse.
I was wondering the same when I came across it a few hours ago and decided to look into it, apparently it’s because it was decided to use an atomic distribution as a base and Suses is apparently not considered stable enough by them. (I can not argue the validity of these statements given either way, that’s just what I found in one of their gitlab issues . if someone wants to look at it for themselves, searching for Fedora on the issue tracker should bring it up)
Having seen SuSE destroy collaborators like OL, CNC and probably Turbo, I’m okay never even working with them as a customer. I intend to avoid them until death.
Well, companies like Valve, they are a bit more worried if the distro are community or organization driven. So, for government, perhaps that same philosophy should be considered which is not the case of Fedora or Suse. They check distros such as Arch or Debian and derivatives.
Well, I don’t know about Valve being worried about community distro.
Did something change?
The idea of a “distro for EU public sector” is neat, but even the PoC has some flaws when considering technical sovereignty.
First of all, using Gitlab & Gitlab CI. Gitlab is an American company with most of its developers based in the US. Sure, you could host it by yourself but why would you do it considering Forgejo is lighter and mostly developed by developers based in the EU area?
The idea of basing it on Fedora is also somewhat confusing. Sure, it’s a good distro for derivatives, but it’s mostly developed by IBM developers. The tech sovereignty argument doesn’t hold well against Murphy’s law.
For me, it’s a perfectly fitting compromise, because Fedora is a community that is detached from RedHat and IBM, but it is also the best distribution out there.
They are pushing the envelope and have been for some time. If it weren’t for Fedora devs we wouldn’t have seen Wayland, PipeWire, Nouveau, etc be pushed to the general public. Also Fedora a libre distribution built by community. If that were ever to change they’d hemorrhage devs.
Compare that with Ubuntu. They want a vendor lock-in via Snaps (and in one point in time Mir), they’re currently replacing coreutils (copyleft) with uutils (copyright) and have what I would say is a pretty bad and convoluted GPU stack.
OpenSuSE could probably be a better alternative, if they took the Linux desktop seriously. But they play second fiddle to Fedora and have not even been close enough to push the envelope like Fedora has.
In conclusion Fedora is the best libre Linux distributions out there.
Now if Eelco Doolstra wasn’t fucking around, we could have had a super LTS NixOS - but NOOOO.
Fedora is not that detached from IBM.They dictate it’s development hence the removal of codecs. If it was a community addition why would it matter? And why would they remove the codecs. After that it was obvious fedora was not a community dustro but driven by Redhat.
If it was a community addition why would it matter? And why would they remove the codecs.
You don’t have to be a corporation to be held liable for legal issues with hosting codecs. Just need to be big enough for lawyers to see you as an attractive target and in a country where codec patent issues apply. There’s a very good reason why the servers for deb-multimedia (Debian’s multimedia repo), RPM Fusion (Fedora’s multimedia repo), VLC’s site, and others are all hosted in France and do not offer US-based mirrors. France is a safe haven for foss media codecs because its law does not consider software patentable, unlike the US and even most other EU nations.
Fedora’s main repos are hosted in the US. Even if they weren’t, the ability for any normal user around the world to host and use mirrors is a very important part of an open community-friendly distro, and the existence of patented codecs in that repo would open any mirrors up to liability. Debian has the same exact issue, and both distros settled on the same solution: point users to a separate repo that is hosted in France which contains extra packages for patent-encumbered codecs.
France is a safe haven for foss media codecs because its law does not consider software patentable
TIL there is a country that sees reason about software patents
In conclusion Fedora is the best libre Linux distributions out there.
Aha.
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Probably since it’s the main redhat upstream and they want the advantage of already widespread usage.
Although at that point why not OpenSUSE for the same reason you mentioned.
Suse is the first thing that came to mind
if you’re not paying it doesn’t really matter. open source belongs to everyone; it’s a disservice to put it in the same bag as, say, a Microsoft or Apple OS.
plus how far removed is enough? are we going to scrutinize what programming languages were used and where they originated as well?
It’s still open source
As far as I’m concerned, open-source has no nationality, even for a public-sector project. Yes, Red Hat is American. They also don’t own Fedora.
From the very start, we’ve been built on the contributions of people from every corner of the globe, why should we care about petty geographical squabbles like this?
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I’d rather they used SUSE
But is it Enterprise Grade and Web Scale? RedHat has a lot of marketing legacy behind it.
Edit: I realize I probably should have specified the /s I’m making fun of RedHat marketing.
I would think that SUSE’s supported distro is enterprise ready. I don’t have personal experience on it though. I’ve only ever used Tumbleweed once. I hope a SUSE admin can respond.
EUbuntu?
They should call it EUROS.
Fedora based actually
EUdora, since I don’t think the mail client is still under development
Family Feudora
Is this made by European union I wonder
No. It’s one dude.
Ah okay
Based on a US distro whose versions are supported for 1 year, and “built to the requirements for the EU public sector” (because the EU public sector has one coherent set of requirements and the dev knows them, even if he doesn’t list them out).
This is most probably good-intentioned and it is admirable how the dev sprung into action, but it’s naive at best.
I thought it was naive as well, but because they based it on a mayfly distro that has really great validation and reliability but it’s gone in a fortnight.
Wither Almalinix or Cloudlinux or PCLinuxOS or Mandriva? Three of them have really solid support structures and at least one of them has amazing compatibility options with libraries for services.
There are options. A few of them could be better than fedora while fedora is still owned by redhat as redhat dies from suffocation – hell, its all just fucking ancillary bull (Ansible) they sell now, as its metastatic cancer (Systemd) eats it alive.
As much as I love what they’re doing, tieing an OS to a specific region via name seems like the opposite of Open Source values… Then again, I suppose it could just be forked into a more generalized version
This is specifically for the public sector. The fact that it is open source make it adaptable to different scenarios.
Europe isn’t a region, it’s a brand.
Europe isn’t a brand, it’s a life/style.
See? That’s great branding.
Fedora Origin: USA
No, thanks. 🙅
I read EUDORA for a split second and got all excited that the best email client ever was getting reborn!
But this is cool too… i guess.
In my opinion, If sovereignty is the goal i think GTK based DE will be safer than QT based DE.
I am aware of The Free QT foundation And its relation to KDE but in a long term there is possibility of things might get complicated if there is change in policy . And even the QT trademark is not totally free. I’m not trying to start DE war, i love both KDE and GNOME.
The Qt foundation tried to get fucky once already, and KDE and some other major companies that rely on it were about ready to fork it if they persisted. Qt seemed to calm down after that.
Not a great relationship to be in though, constantly suspecting that your toolkit might do a rugpull at some point if the shareholders demand it. But I think they could pull off a fork if they ever did.
Why not use the existing Distros?
Most distros, not all, are based in, or run by, American legal entities.
Redhat, Rocky, Alma, Debian, etc - all legally American. This is a problem if the US requires sanctions against another country. All of those cannot legally supply products to Russia now, but in the future who’s to say what other countries the US will sanction? People are only now starting to realise that sanctions can be applied to software too, and many countries are entirely reliant upon US Software. (Seriously, do a quick audit - 90% of our tech company’s stack is US originated)
Alternatives: Suse (German) Ubuntu (UK, but based on Debian, so likely subject to supply chain restrictions).
Can’t we just keep going with Ubuntu and fork it the moment the US wants to do anything funny
No, because forking a distro and updating some hundred thousands of PCs is not done in a week.
Edit: and why would we go with Ubuntu…
They’ll stop receiving updates, but we don’t have to switch over in a week right?
Ubuntu is just an example {{insert any Debian based distro here}}
Meanwhile https://www.europarl.europa.eu/petitions/en/petition/content/0729%252F2024/html/Linux%2Bstatt%2BWindows just closed with 2474 Supporters
