Does anyone else have the feeling that Ukraine is safer with no deal?
Yeah, and the EU should immediately step up, and triplicate support for Ukraine.
We (Europe) already did most of the heavy lifting for Ukraine. The US mostly gave old stockpiles of weapons that they would’ve needed to destroy anyway. We are the ones actually paying cash to keep them afloat.
The problem is, in the post-WW2 order, our defense and our defense industry was made dependent on the USA by design. And even up until last November, Europe didn’t want to challenge this arrangement and just went full steam ahead with this arrangement, ordering US made weapons. I think Europe was in denial that Biden could lose or that NATO could ever end.
Only France, and to a limited extent, Sweden and Turkey, have independent defense industries.
In the future, we will have it again. And Ukraine will actually be a key player.
But in the short term, there is no magical button to press that can produce the arms.
Undoing decades of integration isn’t going to be easy.
You just made all of the points that I was thinking about.
Indeed, especially during the first Cold War, the US Military Industrial Complex was everywhere. Germany and Japan were forced to buy out dated shit from the Americans. The magical button, tell the US military to shutdown all their European military installations and leave. What would the US MIC do then? I highly doubt they want to lose business.
I mostly agree, but I think the list needs Germany’s excellent Leopard (2) tanks, the modern APC variants and all their industry.
Europe also has a lot of good marine yards that can make Navy vessels and submarines.
And it can drum up drone production in a rapid tempo where needed.
What’s more, European Steel and metallurgy are out of the door of higher grade than the US, Russia and Chinese productions. This is a boon to produce heavy armor quickly.
So when push comes to shove Europe can no doubt ramp up a unified military industry rapidly, no need for it to take a decade, and keep finances in house. Another factor that works against the Trump economy if he thoughtlessly pulls the plug on NATO
I do agree, but it does take 3-5 years, unless the EU is willing to turn into a wartime economy. But the political will for that is just not there.
If there will be a serious large-scale attack directly against EU as a whole, the politic will will appear.
Putin is going to make a hard move into the baltics during Trump’s first 2 years, including NATO countries. And Europe won’t be able to do shit about it. They need defenses now and European leadership needs to fast track it.
you talk as if Europe doesn’t have agency, or a military.
they do. they have gaps in their capability that have been created by the departure of US. and they no longer have the overwhelming advantage against Russia, but the thing is Russia will still get absolutely smoked.
the only thing that has changed, is it will be a far bloodier fight. Europe and America are both casualty averse. the prospect of things like Bucha Mariupol and Irpin happening in their cities, the population isnt ready for that.
(And to be clear, what happened in those towns and cities were a crime against humanity, after what Russia did there the Ukrainians understood very well this is a genocidal total war, its kill or be killed, and I dont think Europe has understood thats what its going to be.)
Triple*
Any deal with Trump is no deal at all. He’s the kind of guy that, if you give an inch, starts waving his hands around about how you stole 16 inches from him, and how you must be thrown in a hole somewhere.
Granting him anything is telling him that you are weak and ripe to be exploited.
Just like with any dictator deals are worthless. Putin broke the ceasefire and Trump is breaking trade deals.
Yes. USA already knows what its going to do. A hypothetical trade agreement isn’t going to change the decision, so Ukraine should make exactly zero concessions in pursuit of influencing a decision which has already been made.
Exactly, Trump already decided he was going to surrender. Zelensky knew he wasn’t going to get anything, but it was worth a shot I guess
This guy does (he was there too, sitting next to vance, btw)
A man who, by the way, was fully supported by every single democratic senator.
He was supposed to be the “adult” in the room. They all fear Trump… For some reason, I don’t get it.
trump is a good punishment for power-hungry politician types, too bad that it is at everyone else’s expense.
I’m certain Dr Birx can recommend him a therapist who specializes in sold souls…
They’re safer if they develop nuclear weapons on their own.
Libya and Ukraine convey the same warning to non NATO states. Have nukes or perish.
I’d suspect they’re safer with a deal… but they absolutely shouldn’t honor that deal.
They’re safer with a deal with guarantees, but Trump doesn’t want to give any, only take the profit. Otherwise it’s a choice between soldiers dying and soldiers dying with profit sharing.
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fuck you america for voting for this fascist scumbag. nobody should trust you again.
I’m an American and I’m upvoting this. After 2016, I thought that there were some misguided people who didn’t realize what they were doing, but that the first Trump term would push the pendulum hard the other direction. I felt a little validated when Biden won in 2020, but it wasn’t as one sided as I’d hoped. But Trump winning decisively in 2024 tells me that everyone knew and did it anyway. People are getting what they want: rampant racism, sexism, and global bullying.
So yes, we suck, and no one should trust us as a country, regardless of the fact that there are many of us who knew how catastrophic another Trump term would be.
I don’t think Trump won quite as decisively as it first seemed.
But shit, it’s still like… a third of our country that looked at Trump and went, “yeah sure”.
How the fuck do we fix this? I straight up have no clue. And that means it very likely will devolve into violence. And that is legitimately terrifying.
How the fuck do we fix this?
The primary issue is twofold:
- Heavily biased information and restrictive media diets
- Democrat Inaction
If you try viewing even a tiny amount of right leaning content on a fresh social media account on any platform, you’ll see the type of content that gets perpetuated. People simply become indoctrinated by content recommendations that are practically incapable of showing the other side, not to mention that most mainstream media is entirely corporately captured.
The fact that the Democrats were slow to release official policy for Harris’s campaign, indeterminate on Gaza, and had (or really, still have) a very “this is fine, you’re just overreacting, but sure we’ll fix a few things” attitude towards political messaging, only helped Republicans, because it led a lot of people to just vote for the party that promised the most, and that was the Republicans. All the wars would be over, things would be cheaper, all the “bad” people wouldn’t be here anymore, etc.
To a normal person with very little media literacy, those promises sound downright amazing.
I personally think we fix this by at least starting with messaging, since that’s what actually leads most people to make a decision on who to vote for. There were literally people deciding on election night who they wanted to vote for, so messaging is highly important.
The left needs to speak to the immediately visible, material needs of the working people directly. While it’s important to fight against the right on culture war issues to prevent the ceding of ground on things like civil rights and discrimination, I think a lot of left leaning messaging focuses too heavily on that, and as a result, it can seem to right-inclined people that the left has no economic policy. That needs to change.
See: Bernie Sanders, and how he very consistently addresses specific economic issues people face, and has broader support on the right compared to any democratic congressperson. Hell, even JD Vance said Bernie was one of the people he least disliked on the left, and Bernie’s further left than the Democrats. Populist, economic disparity focused, anti-billionaire, pro-worker sentiment is how you change ordinary people’s minds in the current media economy.
As an individual, the most you’ll likely be able to do in this respect is going to be volunteering for phone banking efforts, donating money to left leaning charities focused on reducing economic inequality, and generally bringing these kinds of talking points up in general political discussion with others.
There’s something else that’s commonly overlooked though, and that’s local policy. Think of a city’s “town hall” type meetings that accept public comment. How many people in that city are actually regularly attending a town hall meeting? Think of how few people it really is during a particularly contentious proposal. Now imagine what it’s like when it comes to something like “housing and urban development: reducing the rate of homelessness - meeting no. 57” Almost nobody. Get yourself and a few friends down to your local relevant policy meetings, make even a little noise, and the amount of change you can make as a result can be drastic compared to the actual % of the city’s population you make up.
Pushing for things like ranked-choice voting in local elections can also be very viable, since it’s proven that tends to push voters further left, on average, and it also adds some extra competition that can spur a party like the Democrats into actual meaningful action.
This was very helpful to read. Thank you.
Most of us want the shithead gone just as bad as you do, but too many dumbshits decided they’d rather not stop him because the alternative wasn’t perfect. I hate it here.
No, most of you either directly voted for him or didn’t care if he won.
Source?
Trump won the election with a majority
most of you decided voting was too much of hassle
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Definitely not most.
As an American. Agreed
Let’s remember that there good people there too. Let’s remember that these scumbags, whichever country they run, rely on our sweat, tears and blood to move forward with their decisions. While not all of us are good, obviously, I want to believe that many Americans were tricked by media to think Trump was a valid choice. What we need to understand it’s that this is a us people versus them rulers. If only we would understand this together and stop fighting each other…
rely on our sweat, tears and blood to move forward with their decisions
Agreed, so stop giving it to them. When I see Americans bring the country to a screeching halt through protest, disobedience, and strikes I will believe in the good people there.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”
I mean, that counts for Russia as well, but until recently you couldn’t say anything like this without getting attacked
I’m sure the media played a part.
But fuck. He was so obvious with his racism, with his desire to be a dictator, fuckin everything.
Fuck.
They basically handed one of the strongest countries in the world to a very typical college bully and his lackies.
Yeah.
Yeah…
Almost nobody using Lemmy voted for him.
Try telling the blue MAGA BidenBro conservatives.
its better to move on and forget about them, because they made it very clear over the last 10 years these types of people absolutley do not give a fuck about anyone elses opinion, and would much rather kill anyone who gets in their way.
I watched some of the transmission and all I can say is my respect to Zelensky grew tenfold with that exchange alone.
Having to interact with these two clowns and still keeping his cool (as much as he was able to) requires A LOT of patience and will. It was horrifyingly stupid in a train wreck kind of way.
Zelensky deserves every award there is for being able to keep his cool like that. I certainly wouldn’t have been able to.
Dude… I am saying this from the most unobjective place I can possibly manage. That was was of the most difficult and annoying things I’ve watched in a very long time. It honestly felt like watching a rational adult deal with his children complaining they can’t have a sleepover or something.
I am shocked that A) the White House wanted that embarrassment broadcast and B) zelensky actually remained remarkably calm.
Man what annoying people to talk with lol I’m trying so hard to see this from a different perspective but I can’t even fathom how that could be seen as anything other than rude and embarrassing.
“You haven’t even thanked us once” lmao
I am shocked that A) the White House wanted that embarrassment broadcast
Trump thinks strength is measured by how many people you confront and bully and threaten. He is not smart enough to realize this isn’t how it looks to people outside his bubble of sycophants and MAGA dummies. Elon Musk clearly thinks the same way, and both Musk and Trump crave the respect they will never earn, so they double down on their idiot edgelord/bully methods. The White House media office will be headed by Trump sycophants, who will see this exchange through MAGA eyes. They see a strong man where everyone else sees a pathetic manchild.
Same here. I actively avoid watching Trump or his administration talk so seeing both him and Vance during this meeting was… exhausting to say the least. I can only imagine what was going through Zelensky’s head throughout the whole thing. His face sure said a lot.
Man, don’t take a look at the conversations sub. They are all high fiving each other over this. For them it was a rush of masculinity and power live on TV. You’ve got folks saying that Vance never looked so good and how they want to name their first born over him.
Wait, really? Imo, JD had that “guy who’s been trying to turn a friend into a fuck for three years now” energy for Trump. I’m really surprised anybody saw that as masculine and powerful.
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Did Trump and Vance think this embarrassing display made them look the better of the leaders?
Because it really didn’t.
Yea, looks like they used their leverage over Zelensky to lure him into a trap that turned out to be a verbal-WWE media stunt…
…turns out Zelensky is more articulate and mature than both of them combined…
I suppose it might go down well with some of his base who love the “macho” shit, but the rest of the world are looking on with disgust.
In some ways, this has probably worked out well for Ukraine, as it might focus minds in Europe. Though I do wish Zelenskyy had pointed out the $350bn in aid lie that Trump keeps spouting.
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Zelensky knows who he is dealing with: Putin.
They only act this way because of their followers and because they are in the US. They wouldn’t pull this shit in any other country.
It (once again) showed their loyalty to Putin. In their mind, this was a massive success.
Unfortunately to their cult it did. Such a strong and powerful man. They are literally coming down from an orgasmic high from what they witnessed.
Zelensky is the strongest man in the world to be able to hold himself back from attacking these ass holes.
I mean, it would have certainly resulted in him being shot on the spot. The Secret Service would shoot anyone .
I wonder how long until the US is nuked? Or at least actually attacked, militarily.
If you’re imagining some kind of first strike situation I think you’re barking up the ring tree. However, the US is extremely vulnerable economically.
US didn’t spent most of it’s money on army for nothing. Doesn’t matter if the army is as powerful as it says it is, the image is strong enough, so nobody will dare.
The only way it will crumble down is if they do “putin gambit”, really attack someone, fail spectacularly at it, expose inability to do shit, and get 50 square kilometres of baren wasteland for it.But you just described Korea, Vietnam, and Afghanistan. Didn’t even get to keep 50 square kilometers of barren wasteland.
Not really, no. US went there, destroyed a bunch of shit, played around for couple of decades, and went home. They didn’t lose much (occasional humans don’t count, who counts a bunch of kids with guns), that was basically a play so the ghouls can watch some people die, par for the course. US didn’t lose anything substantial ever and never was in a war that was important for them ever since that one with Mexico.
I think he should call Trump’s bluff and send in a few dozen battle hardened Ukrainian troops with a few dozen drones and show Trump’s entire nursing home and support staff how things work nowadays. We need to put together an anonymous block chain fund with the purpose of putting multi million bounties on the treason party, funded anonymously by small donors and build a reliable mechanism for people to anonymously, but truthfully claim the bounties. What our political contributions fail to do, crowd funding can do. All of the technology exists to make this happen, and it’s one of the main appeals of crypto currencies. Large scale anonymous transactions. If I find out there’s a billionaire Trump donating traitor or heritage foundation member near me, and I can get a basic Intel file and there’s a 500K bounty on them, then shit. They better hug their money goodnight one last time. Just send an email from a burner/anon account to a recipient with the time of death rough location and wallet address before any news is released. If all the details add up then release the funds to the wallet.
Make it worth while and let rule#3 take effect:
“Number three, never trust nobody Your moms’ll set that ass up, properly gassed up Hoodied and masked up, shit, for that fast buck She be laying in the bushes to light that ass up”
I actually love this idea of anonymous crowdfunding by the masses. But how could we make this happen? I guess it would have to be initiated from the Ukrainian government.
I mean, the framework is already in place with crypto. The silk road ran for years and facilitated enormous amounts of illegal activity, and in the end who got in trouble? Like one fucking guy.
It’s honestly no different than a bookie. You facilitate the transactions and keep a portion of the cut for each transaction. The key is keeping the payor, payee, and broker anonymous.
And no Ukraine wouldn’t be involved in this, if anything the Swiss might be on board, or Panama
Sorry I misread: not crowdfunding assassinations, but the Ukrainian government and defence forces.
Starmer’s visit was pointless Zelensky’s visit was pointless
stop trying to appeal to the better nature of monsters. The Trump administration is either fatally mentally challenged, or wholly complicit with designs of fascism, warmongering, and genocide. Probably both
Close the book on US/EU relations, NATO is dead. America is controlled by the Russian Mafia now.
Europe, prepare for war. America, prepare for the dominion of Fasicsm, and civil war
Not necessarily monsters (actually yeah they are), but he has a 40 year history of being compromised and owned by Soviet and Russian oligarchs. I’m reading “American Kompromat” now and it couldn’t be clearer. It’s not even hidden or anything. The Russians really just, won the Cold War. They did it, they toppled the US. Good job for them.
The reasons for which the US was able to turn fascist are all homegrown. We don’t need to resort to blaming foreigners for the rise of fascism - which is the only logical conclusion to a country that was founded on genocide and colonialism under the sole guidance of white slavers. This is peak American exceptionalism.
Social safety nets, wages, childcare, healthcare, mental health, working hours, etc… have all been crumbling for some time now. The fact that our adversaries picked up on this and exploited it by no means absolves Americans of their turn towards fascism.
If, at the end of these 4 years when democracy has been truly and completely demolished, the only lesson you’ve learned is “damn russian spies destroyed america!” You haven’t learned your lesson, and you’re honestly spitting in the face of all the victims of US policy both domestic and abroad.
I think it’s fair to say Russia exacerbated our existing issues. That doesn’t absolve us, as you point out, but it’s not unreasonable to say “Russia won”, either.
We had every opportunity to fix our issues. But nope, we just never really dealt with our history of racism and all the other bigotries (and capitalism, let’s be real). When we tried to make things better, the reactionaries pushed back. First with war, and when that was lost, with law, and when that was lost, with rewriting history. That is a strategy that keeps working. Turns out if you don’t care for your citizens, they’ll eat up all that fake history looking for someone to blame. And that makes us weak to fascism.
So yeah, Russia may have sped up the process, but the roots of our downfall were here all along.
The core of the issues were fully American. However, USSR/Russia has worked very long and hard to pour nitroglycerin and gasoline on these issues for their own benefit, such as expanding territory, capturing/killing US and NATO spies, etc. all thanks to their little pet in the white house now. I mean in the 30s the same fascist/capitalist leadership tried another coup it just didn’t work (where George H.W. Bush’s father was involved, of course). In the 80s they hollowed out our support system even more, and it’s only declined from there.
It’s clear you don’t know who I am or what I know, of course, but you’re reading into my comment way too much.
The Russian Mafia won the war,
the nation itself is fucked. regardless of what happens. they’ve been doomed for a while.
If your definition of the Russian Mafia includes, the Kremlin, then yes. Putin and co are absolutely gangster scum that work hand in hand with the actual mafia and international criminal organizations. Sure the actual people of Russia are fucked (just as with any country of a dictator).
the russian federation is just a medieval imperial entity masquerading as a federated state. And its society is just a totem pole of people getting used as assets and cattle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJgr-0t-RPc this more describes the political totem pole within the country,
but demographically, the country is a totem pole too. Moscow and St Petersburg rule the rest of the country like bandit kings.
How is NATO dead, just because the US is no longer reliable the rest of the countries can still respond
NATO was a tool of American influence. Just as the Warsaw pact was a tool of Russian influence.
The trans-atlantic partnership is over. NATO is obsolete, a successor is needed. America has checked out,
Nato is not dead just because the US leaves it. The EU wasn’t dead either after the UK left.
the US and Hungary have no reason to officially leave NATO because they can sabotage it from within and use it to blackmail and steer Europe into the position they want, being puppets of Russia and US.
the last thing America wants is a detatched Europe that isnt allied with them, they see independent Europe as a hostile entity, they are only interested in Europe being vassal states.
France and the UK are more than capable of maintaining an article 5 nuclear umbrella. If that’s all NATO is worth, it’s still enough.
France is one election away from Marine Le Pen kissing the feet of Putin.
I wasn’t convinced at first that NATO is dead on Trump’s first term. But here we are and it is a long time coming.
Some analysts think that the unipolar world is over, and that we’re heading into a multipolar world again but dominated by regional blocs. The EU is definitely there, and sometime later the African Union will become more cohesive and globally influential. But I don’t see Latin America having as strong regional grouping as the EU. In Asia, we can forget it because Asians tend to be insular. There is ASEAN but they do not have the same solidarity as the EU.
You forgot to mention China. Unless the EU gets its shit together and resists the same forces that are destroying the US, China is going to become that unipole.
For one why limit it to the North Atlantic? Japan, South Korea, and Australia should get in on the action too. And France and the UK can help them all get nukes (yes I mean that seriously - US and Russia being the only large nuclear powers is a disaster). Now would be a great time for the stable democracies (not the US) to create a new alliance.
South Korea and particularly Japan doesn’t need help getting nukes. Japan in particular has never been afraid of showing an advanced space program(for icbm technology) and their immense plutonium stockpile. They could assemble ICBMs that could target anywhere in the world in a matter of weeks.
NATO is still usefull as a framework for cooperation with the UK, Turkey, Canada and Norway.
Under Putin’s Sock Puppet, most certainly. However, the US MIC might hold the key to bring the USA back to being the USA.
Before completely cutting off ties from the US showing the public attempts had been made for diplomacy and providing evidence of what a bad actor US has become is important.
Showing is way more impactful and supports moves made afterwards than just making claims and cutting ties.
So not completely pointless, since the public needs to be able to come to the conclusion themselves first before drastic foreign relation changes can be made.
A united EU against today russia? Doubt will last weeks. But we are too afraid.
Trump still thinks he’s the star of some corny TV show. Get fucked asshole.
Yea, that is what trump is: weaponized reality tv for rubes. No competence, just circus and mayhem.
It exploits fatal vulnerabilities in education, democracy and 24h-
journalismnews cycle.
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I also would have slapped those 2. Fuck it.
Imagine being Zelensky and having to fly some some rando country to beg for help from a Nazi asshole to end the invasion from another Nazi asshole. And if you were to die, one of the two assholes would win?
Zelensky, if you need my help personally, just ask. I have a wheelbarrow so we can carry your balls. Trump would love it if his genitalia could weigh down a party balloon.
Congrats America, we’re the bad guys now.
A foreign democracy is sending an entire generation of their male populace into the afterlife to prevent Russia from expanding their borders and influence, which is bad for everyone including America, and our dumbfuck “leader” is trying to fleece them for everything he can in exchange for helping them with what amounts to chump change.
Such an embarrassing time to be an American. We’re transitioning into a much more dangerous world.
A foreign democracy is sending an entire generation of their male populace into the afterlife to prevent Russia from expanding their borders and influence
More to the point, to defend themselves. Ukraine isn’t playing some kind of geopolitical game; it’s trying to survive and has a huge moral high ground that your characterization of it disregards.
I’m not disregarding anything. I’m making a point by driving home what it does for Americans, because all Americans care about is themselves. If I frame it from the perspective of Ukraine trying to defend themselves from invasion, Americans could give a fuck less.
If that’s your goal, then you need to understand that Americans give even less of a fuck about the framing you gave it. It’s not the Cold War anymore; Americans have no concept that “Russia… expanding their borders and influence” would affect them in any way. Americans don’t even have a fucking clue where the borders being fought over even are!
At least the “Ukrainian self-defense” angle has a clear villain and a heroic scrappy underdog to root for as entertainment. In terms of getting Americans to care, that really is your best bet.
(Source: am American. And if you think this viewpoint is even more cynical than yours, then congratulations, you’re correct.)
It was all a trap.
They just invited him over so they can try to bully him and attack his character with bullshit arguments in front of everyone so they can have that “tough guy” image for their moronic supporters. How fucking pathetic.
No one will want to go over to the US to negotiate anything now.
America is squarely in an age of decline now. Our allies will start moving on without us. We’ll start being left out of all sorts of deals/agreements. Our global power will decline. The future is going to another country. Probably China.
All because dumbfuck conservatives care more about owning the libs than voting responsibly.
I may have a bit of a rose-colored view of the US, or at least its potential to have its conscience pricked by the notion that tomorrow can be freer than today, but if we don’t care about that anymore, then whatever it was that made America a more palatable hegemon than the USSR or China is gone. The USA is just another transactional actor, and not even a particularly reliable one. At this point, Trump has literally threatened more individual souls with annexation than China has.
“Decline” is an understatement. Trump is turning the US into a pariah rogue state, and he’s doing it fast.
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They’re also going to gut IRS. So there will be less revenue.
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Tariffs need someone to collect them. And sales tax is very much the IRS. It’s not automated just because they itemized your receipt.
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Fun fact: Pinkerton is tanned, rested, and ready to go.
do you not know that WE pay the tariff charges? or do you honestly believe that, example, Canada is just like “yeah we dont mind paying the 25% in our exports, we’ll just cover that for you”
sorry but no. they will upcharge the export 25% to counter the tariff, then it gets sold to US for 25% more, then on the store shelf WE pay 25% more so cover the “losses”
if you dont think this is how it works. let me ask you a simple question scenario.
you have a lemonade stand. you sell for 1 dollar on the street. suddenly, someone says. hey i own this street. you have to pay me 25 cents to sell here.
do you continue to sell for 1 dollar and lose 25 cents per sale? or do you charge 1.25 to keep making the same profit?
if your answer was “id move to a different street” well then you cant comprehend a question and you are dodging it.
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You can’t not pay sales tax unless you’re a business. You’re just expected to pass it along to consumers who can take it or leave it.
also crickets when it comes to israel.
Even worse, look at this bullshit: https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-844166
Israel is lobbying the United States to keep Syria weak and decentralized, including by letting Russia keep its military bases there to counter Turkey’s growing influence in the country, four sources familiar with the efforts said.
Ukraine should make a deal with Europe. Europe should send troops to Ukraine.
Been saying it for a couple of weeks. Also best way to hold Putin to account. I think he goes home if UKraine agrees no NATO.
Here’s a link to the entire exchange. It’s fucking surreal and infuriating.
Holy fucking shit Zelenskyy needs the peace prize now for not slapping that geriatric blowhard to the floor. What the actual fuck.
To be fair, he would’ve also deserved it for slapping that geriatric blowhard to the floor.
Watched it, my takes: Trump is definitly the lets make an offer he can’t refuse type of negociator. I am thinking that the last week’s visits have been hard on their ego. I suspect there is an agreement between european leaders to not let them get away with lies and bullshit when in person, even in the oval office. And it seems to be working, Vance respect comment make them look real fricking weak.
The “respect” and “you should be thankful” comments reminded me of that old (I think Tumblr) post:
Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority”.
and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me, I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority, I won’t treat you like a person.”
and they think they’re being fair, but they aren’t, and it’s not okay.
The respect comment took me back to his donut debacle. The couchfucker is a charisma void.
