Summary
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy asserted that no world leader has the right to negotiate with Russian President Vladimir Putin on behalf of Ukraine.
Speaking to Le Parisien readers, Zelenskyy emphasized that Ukraine alone determines its future and any dialogue with Russia must follow a peace plan based on strength and international support.
He warned against negotiating without clear guarantees of security, highlighting the risks of Putin resuming aggression after a ceasefire.
Zelenskyy called for a strategy ensuring Ukraine’s long-term stability and security, beyond NATO or EU membership timelines.
It’s fucking ridiculous he has to say it out loud
Tbh a lot of people in the states are under the impression that we CAN do precisely that, because we absolutely have done in the past. But this is also kind of a whole different ballgame, in a ton of pretty crucial ways.
No world leader = hey, you orange turd, you do NOT speak on our behalf.
But stated politically.
this is why our teachers taught us the difference between can and may (one implies ability, the other permission) because all of south america is looking at this like “fucking right dude”
As an American, I have always found our conduct in South America in particular to be utterly reprehensible.
Central too. Dole & United Fruit, Panama Canal, School of the Americas, just to mention a few lasting atrocities
Thus the ridiculous nature of the statement
Not only that, but we’re giving fucking BILLIONS of money to Ukraine, we SHOULD have a say so in what happens…
No we’re literally not. We’re giving them our stocks of older equipment that has been in warehouses. That equipment is assigned a dollar value and then it’s argued over as if were stacks of cash.
Yes we’re giving them money too, but when a headline says Biden authorizes $20 billion in additional aid to Ukraine, the vast majority of it is our old stuff.
you are just funneling BILLIONS into your Military Industrial Complex, which is good for the shareholder value of the usual suspects, while dropping off your used stuff all over Europe. The US are mainly helping themselves. It just happens to also help Ukraine.
The US has to funnel BILLIONS into our own military complex because A: Every single other country on Earth depends on us. B: Lots of countries don’t like us.
But let me guess, you most likely live here in the US and are just enjoying the high life, while also criticizing how much you hate everything about it.
It is, but that’s what Trump did with Afghanistan.
Of course no one can negotiate on behalf of Ukraine. Ukraine is holding on thanks to the support of several parties, and those parties do have the right to continue or end that support depending on the conditions they see. I hope this never happens, but If the US says they’re okay with letting Russia keep the territory its gained as long as hostilities end, then they are within their rights to withhold further arms aid on those conditions. Is that the US negotiating as if they are themselves Ukraine? No. Zelensky understands that he is existentially dependent on others. He’s just reminding them not to abuse that.
Yet, he expects the US to just keep cutting those checks, right?
You probably even think it’s one of those overisized checks that are often shown in your TV shows, don’t you.
No, but I love how some of you think “We only want the US to be the World Police when it’s convienant for SOME, but not others…”
It took you six days to come up with that? Is posting your job?
What the fuck is that logic even… Do you think you should be sending equal support to russia? You probably do, given your takes…
Dude, when we help Israel, all of a sudden, America’s bad… but, helping Ukraine is good because it’s “stopping that evil empire Russia!” What about the evil empire of Muslim terrorists? If Israel falls, it’s only a matter of time before their surrounding Muslim countries start trying to expand even more.
LMAO. Okay, I understand now, you’re just trolling. Because nobody’s THAT stupid.
Spotted the liberal. “if I disagree with you, than YOU must be the stupid one!” lol…
I am so sad by how Ukraine has been handled.
The West should have been an overwhelming power against Russian imperialism. Ukraine should have been given everything from the beginning, no strings attached, with no self-imposed red lines.
They will swallow another democracy in 10-20 years and the cycle repeats.
And that would likely have ended the war sooner, causing less people to die, and making Putin less likely to try something like it in the future.
Tactically, the plan is to make Russia bleed to death rather than temporarily paralyse it.
Maximizing the loss of russian life and draining the russian economy to the point that the population won’t tolerate any further war is the goal. It’s unfortunate that this is at the cost of ongoing war in Ukraine.
This is a solid take, but the other side of the issue is the question of how long will it take the brainwashed Russian population to realize the economy has passed a point of no return? Outside of major cities much of Russia lives in 3rd world poverty. Will they even notice if the ruble falls to zero?
Some might not notice a change in the economy, but they will notice that their sons are being taken and that they are not coming back.
Approximately 1 in 1000 Russian males have now been killed. How many more will have to die for the average Russian to say “no more” is a tough question.
That statistic sounds off. 1 in 100?
I used a population of 143,000,000 divided by an estimated death toll in Ukraine of 70,000 and assumed half of the russian population is female.
1 in 100 might be correct if you only consider men of a fighting age.
Holy shit, I haven’t looked at the numbers in a while, but
- Russian population: 140 000 000
- Male population: 70 000 000
- Male fighting age population (18 - 60 years): Very approximately 50 000 000 (I honestly just made up a number a bit smaller than 70)
- Documented KIA: 85 000
- Projected actual KIA: 170 000 (Note: Prigozin claimed 120 000 KIA in June 2023)
- Projected number of severely wounded: Roughly 500 000
Result:
- Roughly 0.34 % fighting age men killed
- Roughly 1 % of fighting age men severely wounded
This has to be getting close to a point where most Russians know someone personally that has been killed or severely wounded in the war…
I heard a while ago that a very well connected person (the sort of person that doesn’t need to work and could spend all their free time maintaining family relations and friendships) would really only be able to maintain family relations and friendships with about two hundred people. The sort of people that say “I have 1000 friends on Facebook” are talking complete bollocks, there’s a huge difference between a relationship/friendship and an acquaintance that you haven’t talked to for fifteen years. The average person truly knows many less people than this, usually in the low dozens.
Using your figures and assuming that these relationships are 50/50 male/female, even these very well connected people would statistically still know less than one injured soldier and have less than a 1/3 chance of personally knowing someone that was killed.
I know this comment assumes and extrapolates quite a bit and the idea is somewhat of a tangent from the original comment, but I think it’s quite interesting.
Turns out neither the west or russia gives a shit about Ukraine.
they’ll give a shit once all other options have been exhausted, and people realize the next step is actual shooting war, with the bombs falling on Warsaw, Helsinki, Berlin, etc. When they realize they’re on their last legs before the big one, then they’ll take it seriously.
America is a write off, Regulatory captured by the Russian Federation / Russian Mob, Same thing At the very least until 2026 midterms. Europe is still in denial that its time to switch from butter, to guns. Literally
Please be more concrete. Who is the west? Because in Denmark we throw resources at Ukraine to support their efforts.
Do you throw danish people?
nothing for the US to steal.
There is a lot in Ukraine to “steal”. It’s a large land mass with a long border with both Belarussia and Russia. They still have plenty of Black Sea border, and with proper support could have lot more. Breadbasket of Europe, plenty of nuclear plants and knowledge in that area. The Zone. Ukrainian people, one of the oldest cultures in Europe with all that that entails.
I don’t think they have the oil reserved the US wants to steal
They have uranium though, which could be more important in the future. Even if Russia gets all the land they currently control by military, plenty of those uranium deposits would remain with Ukraine.
Maybe no civilian targets. But other than that totally agree. We should have put lend lease circa 1940s to shame
Or not helping Boris Yeltsin against Gorbachev.
Or maybe the US should have stopped Catherine the great from annexing Crimea. Jesus you people.
Oh, right, I didn’t remember I wasn’t allowed to set the time frame. Only you have that power, right? 🤦♂️
Edit: and it was YOU the one talking about 1940s.
And he’s intentionally obtuse. What a winner.
everything keeps pointing to time being a circle, the same things will continue to happen every 20-30 years. like the show Dark.
Yep. It was a sad excuse not to intervene in 2014, but now? Pathetic.
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Ah yes “muh Russian Imperialism” argument/excuse that we all heard a bajillion times
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Resources mostly & technically what makes US a better alternative, I was expecting you to side with Both US & Putin due to your love for fascism
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Except Putin with all his craziness has done significantly less carnage compared to US & Israel (That’s Putin’s only redeeming quality) Reminder not justifying Russia’s actions but hey you people usually ignore that
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Try placing Russian Nukes in Brazil
What do you call conquering neighboring countries to get more resources?
Depends
Depends on what?
People
Putin has repeatedly mentioned in public interviews that he wants to restore the Russian Empire. Do you think he’s lying?
Suuuuuure & you think people who support putin are Putin simps who totally don’t want to simply not have US hegdemony
Remove america from the equation and Russians would still want a sphere of influence and colonies. Imperialism is married to the russian identity
Except America is the epitome of Imperialism (& by extension Europe)
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Whataboutisms are bad and you should feel bad
Yes
Ah yes, “
insert'Muh'MemeLanguageHere” argument/excuse that we all heard a bajillion timesWhat exactly do you describe Russia’s actions in Ukraine then if not imperialism? Do you believe Ukrainians have a right to self determination?
They lost the right when they Allowed a coup govt to take control & bow down to US interests & harbour Nazis
This is a gross and uneducated understanding of the issues that led to the revolution.
Suuuure cuz you said so, you’re also gonna deny the killing of ethnic Russians & Shelling in Donbas ? No Not even the fact that there was an agreement that NATO shouldn’t expand borders ?
No ? None at all ? Ok fine
That is literally a bullshit copypaste psyop that Russia regurgitated for over a decade to drum up a false narrative.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_have_you_been_for_eight_years%3F
Unless you’re just a Russian who’s obligated to regurgitate your Nazi state Rhetoric, I’d suggest you educate yourself a little bit on the history of what caused this conflict, the sooner you realize that Russia has been waging probably the largest information war in history in the years leading up to this war.
**Understand one fundemental thing. Russia is a country that is mentally stuck in the 1700s and is obsessed over big lines on maps, speheres of influence, Emprie. It wants these things, It cant have these things without blood. It wont abandon its pursuit of these things. Russia wants America and NATO out of the picture so it can pick on who it wants. Russia has absolutely no chance of defeating NATO in a military conflict. So their only hope in a confrontation is to have the other side tear itself apart internally, everything they’ve done online the past 15 to 20 years has been in pursuit of that end goal. **
the sooner you realize that, you’ll stop making a fool of yourself, doing their work for them by posting the same garbage that they cooked up in a military internet troll farm to aid their tinpot worldview goals. And if you dont, well, dont bother replying with more of your crap to me, because I Have an acute sense for Russian Nazi / Kremlin propaganda. You’re wasting your time.
Even BBC confirmed it, all you’ve done is yell that it’s propaganda, sorry but nope, That doesn’t cut it anymore
& cut it out with the “troll” accusations, your side is the one spitting propaganda, people like you also said that Ukraine will bleed Russia dry, now the cat’s out of the bag You’re NAFO imperialists & not in any high positions of morality
Russia you mean of course.
& USA (mostly)
And russia entirely
USA forced Putin to blackmail/bribe the Ukrainian president to do a complete 180 on the EU and then kicked off a fuckoff huge series of protests? Remember to stretch before reaching that far
Suuuuure he Blackmailed, Russia has zero influence in Ukraine Maybe next time Speak with ACTUAL Ukrainians (Cuz I did)
Fuckwit
Your IQ is sub-zero, thanks for admitting that
Whatevs
This is arguably the whole point of the war.
For Ukraine yes, but as far as Ukraine’s allies go? Only in principle. In reality we help Ukraine because it fucks up Russia, but we don’t give Ukraine the support it really needs or asks for because of [insert litany of excuses for years of delay on new weapons systems].
Proxy wars are nasty business, and Ukraine has precious little say in any of the macro decisions. Russia and Russia’s ennemies collectively hold all the negociation leverage.
Zelenskyy’s only hope is that domestic pressure will force the West to make a genuine effort at preserving as much of Ukraine’s sovereignty as possible, hence this media intervention.And he’s right to be worried, because the situation in Palestine shows, again, that most Western governments only stick to their stated principles when it’s politically convenient and shrug at literal genocide when it’s not. And the Russian propaganda machine is going to work overtime to make us think that any Russian concession to Ukraine would be against European interests.
I think it’s worse than that. I think the building red tape was intentional to drag out the war as long as possible so Russia as always will continue to dump resources into it until it bankrupts them both militarily and economically.
And what is the western propaganda machine going to say?
Unfortunately, Trump will do exactly that regardless.
America can tell Russia Ukraine formally surrenders, and that the moon is made of cheese, it isnt going to stop anyone from fighting to protect themselves.
The fact that even western countries seem to think that there can be negotiations about the fate of Ukraine and its people, without the Ukrainian voice present, is laughable and directley supports Putin and the Russian Mafia’s fantasy-narrative.
If America and NATO pull back support, Putin will just say “fuck it” and take all of Ukraine and then do whatever he wants. Putin wants every territory that used to be Russia.
even if Nato tucks its tails between its legs and runs away from a winnable confrontation, Russia isn’t taking the whole country, they don’t have the manpower to run an occupation on a territory the size of Texas, with one of the most heavily armed and battle hardened populations on earth.
Russia already signed away any hope of an occupation that didn’t fight them tooth and nail to the death, when they decided to massacre the villages of Bucha , Irpin, and Konotop. The world saw Russia for what it was then, That event “steeled” the resistance. I’m not trying to use hyperbole or sensationalism here, I’m stating that flat out, the Ukrainian people saw that the Russians will murder every single person who doesn’t submit, and they’ve only continued that savage barbarism ever since. Bombing and Murdering people into submission NEVER works. It only gives them a reason to fight.
they weren’t equipped to do an occupation in 2022. they sure as shit are less equipped to do so now. It would be one of the bloodiest insurgencies in history. The Taliban didn’t have Leopards, Javelins, and HIMARs rockets they could put into hiding.
They have no intention of occupation. They will raze every city to the ground to control the pipes and food. They just want the pipes and food, and people who don’t allow that are just going to be ground up like so much meat.
they dont have the resources for that, either.
Leaving who to grow the food and service the pipes?
Yeah, I don’t think that person realises that regardless of how cold and impersonal the resources are, you still need people to get the resources, and those people need to live, and that requires infrastructure, and that requires an occupation, that requires a functioning society.
If they go scorched earth, they get exactly that - scorched earth.
Honestly though I think the goal is not really resources but, as all fascists require, to have a perpetual enemy and a war to fight. Without that the fascists’ obsession with a plot turns inwards and they eat themselves.
Spot on.
Putin wants every territory that used to be Russia.
And then when he gets them all, he will want every territory that’s near Russia.
And people will be like “Oh no, why didn’t anyone DO something when we could?”
probably already has an
instructionagreement to cease all supportand by proxy, the majority voters who support him.
The comments are peak internet dumpster fire 🍿
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Except that they can’t, especially Europe. While EU has drastically reduced oil and gas from Russia it’s still like 20%. I’ve heard Hungary and Austria don’t have access to gas from other countries other than Russia. (If someone has a source that says otherwise I’d be open to it).
While what Zelenskyy says is absolutely true, no county is obligated to help. Is this a good strategy to lend into?
What is he trying to achieve with such declarations ? This won’t go well with Donald Trump.
The only thing that’s worse than having the US as your enemy, is having the US as your ally.
Speak for yourself. A majority of Eastern Europeans see the US as a key strategic ally, and for good reason.
The original quote is: “It may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal.” – Henry Kissinger
Oh fuck off with that.
They sure LOVED having the US as an ally when they were getting their asses handed to them during WW1 and WW2.
The right? Maybe not. The ability though? Certainly. Specifically the US absolutely has the power to negotiate an end to the war with Putin.
They could negotiate Russia’s end to the war using their own resources (ie. Mostly the embargos) but anything Ukraine forfeits would have to be negotiated by them. The US can’t just cede another nation’s land.
We effectively can if we threaten to pull all support and harass Ukraine instead…
Not that I want that, or have any say in that as a US citizen…
There’s no threat needed. Zalenskyy already knows he’s losing US support after January.
Unfortunately the US definitely can since it gave a lot of military aid to Ukraine. It can force Ukraine to cede land
The effect would be exactly that. Actually the US ending support for Ukraine would result in not just ceding current borders, but huge additional losses.
This is literally Zalenskyy saying we can’t negotiate for him while knowing that he’s losing US support in January.
He’s doing whatever he can, but ultimately him saying this doesn’t make it so-- no matter how much he (or you) wish it would. Ukraine has been losing ground even with US support and they will only lose more without it. To pretend otherwise is to live in a fantasy. In such a situation the US has at least as much control over how much Ukrainian territory ends up under Russian occupation, as does Ukraine.
You’re confusing losing land because you can’t hold it militarily with negotiating an end to the invasion by ceding land. He’s said that no one will negotiate for Ukraine but Ukraine and since the incoming US administration has already said they’ll be ending support we really don’t have any leverage to encourage them to accept any terms. We can’t threaten to remove support that we’ve already said we’re removing.
I’m saying that there isn’t much of a difference. I agree that Ukraine is fucked and that the time for negotiations is long gone. Why would Russia negotiate now when they expect a clear advantage on the horizon?
I think Zelensky is saying this to look tough and keep the support from Europe coming in at least.
“Mom says it’s my turn with the Donbas.”
Yet, all other countries are supposed to send unlimited amounts of money and weapons? This is the same bullshit with everyone else… you want all our money, and that’s it.
If all other countries don’t send help, it just puts Putin one step closer to their borders.
And that’s the US’s problem right? We’re the World Police only when it’s convenient for some, but not others? If it that’s the case, I really wish people would stop hating on our government when we’re doing things like financing small proxy wars…
The US is not the only country that sent help to Ukraine you know.
And that’s the problem I have with how “some” of the government is selling this thing… “if we don’t send UNLIMITED funds to Russia, they’ll keep taking over everything!” And I just don’t buy it. Putin doesn’t want to be surrounded by NATO, that’s the sole reason he’s going after Ukraine. He’s not going to “keep going” like some are proclaiming, because he knows that will be a death sentence.
I think anybody above the age of 5 can see that your deranged opinion is not based on real-life events.
Zelenskyy emphasized that Ukraine alone determines its future and any dialogue with Russia must follow a peace plan based on strength and international support.
Support [outside of the racist countries’ unilateral support for Israel] will always be based on agreements. It doesn’t matter how much Ukraine supports Israel or sends its mercenaries to Gaza. How many countries will help out another for no return?
The fact that you think there is no return in their alliance and trade is mightyfoolish
That’s my point. I give you stuff for nearly free; this is what I want you to do with it.
We havent given anything. And they have given everything. Please tell me what you think that military spending was going to go towards if it wasn’t spent on contracts to U.S. based companies as it has been… Because it can’t, and would not ever be allowed to be used on anything domestic. The less than 90b we have dispersed would disappear into the more than $2.5T in military spending we have had since that time. It cannot be used for helping with food prices, house/rental prices, healthcare reform… anything locally. The fact that it has taken over 2.5+ years and we haven’t dispersed HALF of what the Republican majority congress alloted for it, is frankly ridiculous.
That military funding would have been spent by the military, not giving raises either… Nope. Just vanished into contracts under different names and no one would have given a shit about it because it wasn’t being called out by Russian appeasers on our U.S. news channels.
Never once did that Republican congress call to cut military spending. That’s the only way that money would have went anywhere else.
We havent given anything. And they have given everything.
Who is we and they in this case?
I can see that I took the wrong idea from the article. I thought Zelenskyy was asking for supplies from Germany, France, US, Italy, etc. and then telling them to keep quiet afterwards.
No, he’s saying they can’t speak on Ukraine’s behalf. Countries can withhold aid if they so choose, but they can’t say “Ukraine will surrender these grounds and forgive any reparations and allow you to build a demilitarized zone on their land if you stop where you are at” and expect Ukraine to just do so. It wasn’t a deep statement by him, it was a statement of if you want an agreement with Ukraine, you need to make it with Ukraine, stop trying to discuss deals behind their back and expecting them to honor them.
I misunderstood the interview. Thanks for the explanation.
Dude is actually benefitting from this war.
In principle I agree, but he doesn’t really have a choice. Other world leaders are providing the funds to continue the war in the first place. If Zelensky does something they don’t like, they can just stop the funding and end the war on Russian terms.
You need to educate yourself on the geographical foothold that Ukraine is. It is a very important part of land with mobilisation consequences. Without it, at least for now, it leaves very drastic measures as the only option.
it also feeds a billion people
If Ukraine loses we will have war with Russia (now able to use their resources and people) and we will have to send our soldiers.
Military analyst Anders Puck Nielsen, who was spot on with predictions when covering this war says that is we allow cease fire without security guarantees for Ukraine this ultimately will be victory for Russia.
It looks like the vast majority of people in the West don’t really understand what this war is about.
Not in 2014 and not now. I remember how no one understood in my circles what it meant when they booted out putins puppet.
I don’t see how any of this takes away from what I said. Ukraine can’t continue the war themselves, so they have no choice but to do what their benefactors wish.
So is Russia. Russia was unable to help Armenia, what we see in Syria, there are some signs of things breaking up in Libia, Georgia, we will see how Belarusian election will go in January, last time Putin needed to send his military to stop the protests.
The war economy cannot work forever and 2024 was estimated to be its peak for Russia.
The support the West is providing also is negotiable (compared to GDP) and if Russia will win in Ukraine we will have to spend 7 times more while being in actual war according to analysts.
I still don’t see how any of this takes away from my point. Are you just saying that other countries have a vested interest in the continued existence of Ukraine as we know it? Because I know that, that’s why they started funding the war in the first place.
Let’s say that when Trump takes office he negotiates new terms with Putin. Zelensky will agree to those terms because he knows things will only be worse for his country if he continues fighting without US support.
Are you just trying to say that the us or other countries would never threaten to pull support because it would be foolish? If so, then you don’t know how common fools are. What is it you think Trump means when he says he will end the war immediately after taking power?
If Ukrainians want to they can make this another Afghanistan, or even worse given their much better infrastructure and manufacturing capacity. Their will to continue fighting is the only variable.
Huh? This conflict basically already is the Afghanistan war.
Which one?
The one we’re talking about.
The taliban had the support of Pakistan, as well as Iran and Russia - that’s the only way that kind of war could last for 20 years. That’s essentially where we are now with western backing, but if the west pulls support… Ukraine can last only so long on will-power alone. The same could be said for Russia, but as far as I can tell there isn’t an active risk of their allies pulling support yet.
edit: far be it for me to point out that’s why there’s been so much circling of wagons to keep the US involved and so much panic about trump pulling us out
I think you’re overstating how much help the Afghans got from PK/US the first time PK/RU/IR the second time, but in any case Ukraine is far better able to sustain itself given their much more developed industry and infrastructure, and the fact that the bulk of the country is unoccupied. It wouldn’t be a cakewalk by any means, but Ukraine wouldn’t cease to exist.
I don’t really think I am, but fair enough.
Ukraine might have more advanced infrastructure than Afghanistan, but having that infrastructure within reach of Russian missiles and airstrikes means that they’d have to defend it or else lose the means to sustain a continued resistance. Again, I don’t think people appreciate just how much trouble Ukraine would be in if the west pulled support before a ceasefire deal is struck - Ukrainian forces aren’t guerilla fighters. If Russia didn’t already have the upper hand now, they certainly would once Ukraine was left to maintain their resistance alone - and then it would really only be a question of how long Russian citizens will put up with their wartime economy (and how many soldiers NK is willing to lose).
There’s absolutely no way Russia can take and hold all of Ukraine – it would be a real challenge to keep the provinces they’ve already carved off if Ukrainians keep pressing the issue. I’m certainly not advocating for the end of Western support – au contraire – but it’s really, really hard to occupy and pacify a country, especially one the size of Ukraine with a population of nearly 40 million. The USSR had enormous resources to deploy in its imperial expansion and was mostly unopposed, whereas today’s Russia doesn’t benefit from either point and it’s harder to be a rogue state in today’s world.
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