Replace the second panel red with “woke and gay”
Hey buddy! I may be woke. And I may be gay! And… What was the third thing you called me?
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If it’s anything like my brothers family they’ll be the first ones in line for food and the first ones to leave too.
That’s probably being kind compared to what would be said if it actually were a problem.
Is that this generations version of “fake and gay”?
Yup they think they are the open minded ones or whomever doesn’t immediately fall down to them and refer to their words as gospel as not open minded or interested in ‘a discussion’.
Be me
Liberal uncle in conservative/ trump family
Fly to red state for family member’s funeral
Get made fun of by all family members in public at the funeral reception
My grandma never met you. She lived to be 103, and died last October (2023).
My grandma loved you. She wanted you to do well, and be happy. Just as she did with everyone on earth. It’s physically impossible for her to host a dinner big enough to feed everyone on earth. But the logistical impossibility is the only reason she didn’t do it.
My cousin is a lesbian. She had been married to a decent man, had two kids. Good family man. Married for nearly 10 years before she discovered she was lesbian. The breakup was civil. He did nothing wrong. They both still loved each other, and loved the kids. He was still welcome at the table, as was my cousins new partner. My cousins mom was NOT accepting. When my aunt tried making a scene, my grandma said “Melinda…I won’t have hate at this table. You love your daughter. I don’t ask you to agree with your daughters lifestyle. But I do ask you do not bring hate into my home.”
My grandma was a teacher in her 20s. She lived in a small but growing suburb, and essentially raised the whole town. She got promoted several times as the years went on. Eventually being the district superintendant. She LITERALLY was responsible for raising thousands of kids, who were everywhere from the boomer generation to the millenials.
She had a simple philosophy. Which was that she loved you. She would put aside the world to hear what you had to say. My grandpa used to joke that when WWII broke out, she was having tea with the neighbors and helping raise their kids. Just discussing the day. Choas and war breaking out across the globe, but she was determined to hear about you. And for the kids, she would teach them that everybody was different, and we need to love everybody for who they are. Not who you want them to be.
And she loved everyone. Even you. Even though she never met you. She always said “Everyone is welcome in this home, as long as they take off their hat at the dinner table, leave hate out of their hearts, and tell me about their day.”
The only time I ever remember her saying anything negative, was somebody had said during trumps first term something he was doing in office.
Her reply was “I just do not like that man.”
AIRHORNS!!!
I know that sounds so non-aggressive, but for her to say she didn’t like someone would be like a world leader declairing WWIII. The room literally went quiet.
So I try to live my life to keep making Gram proud. Accept everyone, even if you disagree with them. You can’t just accept those you get along with, and not create an echo chamber.
So if you’re ever in Cleveland, you can have a meal with me. And maybe when you fly out of state to be with family, you can teach them about letting the hate go.
Your grandma sounds like a wonderful human who lived a wonderful life. I hope you are doing well.
She’s my hero in life.
My dad is a loud stubborn alcoholic. Someone who just forces his way into being “right”. Two of my three aunts would just bicker and fight. The third aunt would usually be reading a book, or watching a documentary. She had 3 masters degrees.
From those 4 children my grandma had came 4 different families. With that, meant that back in the 90s, when everybody was still alive, but before the great grandkids came, meant that there could be roughly 40 people in this small condo, which was essentially just one medium sized open plan living room, and a seperate kitchen.
So you’d have my dad barking orders at someone, my aunts fighting amongst themselves. Uncles loudly argueing sports. Grandkids all running around, doing cartwheels, jumping off the couch. Basically a lot of noise and chaos in a very small space.
And then my grandma would very quietly say “Excuse me”.
Whole room stops. Dead silent. Room full of respect. And with a hushed voiced, barely louder than a whipsper she would ask “would someone check on the potatoes? I wouldn’t like them to burn.”
14 people, her kids, grandkids, the uncles, all rush the kitchen, and checking potatoes. Like it only takes one person to do that. I get that. But the uncles are the only people she didn’t have a major part of raising, and even they respect her. Most of them met her when they were older teenagers. So she very much had the whole neighborhood mom thing going on in the 50s/60s.
But just imagine how that works. Room full of chaos comes to a dead silent stop because a woman in her 80s wants to make sure everyone gets a baked potato, and mashed potatoes, and sweet potatoes.
Doesn’t matter what she wanted. If gram wanted something, the world stops for her. And I was 40 years old last year when she died. I never once heard her yell. Yet the idea of her needing to is completely foreign to me. Because EVERYONE wanted to make sure her every need was met. Not through fear, but from a place of love and respect. She had taught us life lessions since most of us were born.
That’s why I don’t use past tense. It’s not that she “was” my hero. She IS my hero. Now and forever.
Ugh, everyone has that non-racist uncle nobody likes to see at family gatherings!
He always stays sober and doesn’t join in the violent and racist tirade
You can, in fact, choose your family. You literally do not need them in your life.
Don’t you just hate it when people are compassionate and nonviolent? Hand me my gun
FAFO will include some people learning that compassionate doesn’t always imply nonviolent
I for one don’t like associating beards with racist and sexist Americans.
I wholeheartedly agree, don’t let those duck dynasty fucks ruin beard culture.
Amen brother, nearly all foundational leftist theorists had gnarly beards.
It’s kind of fueling some self hatred in me.
It’s weird, in my family the black sheep are the ultra conservatives whereas everyone else leans from Liberal (at the most Right Leaning) to “Let’s burn down a mansion and eat the first non-servant who runs out alive!”
I was kinda glad that the uncle who was “Always trying to be my friend, always hip and cool and with it despite actually being none of those things and instead coming off as an annoying asshole.” basically stopped talking to me or even acknowledging my existence beyond telling his son/my cousin that I was possessed by Demons that made me cut off my dick and that’s why they gotta get the Mexicans outta America before they teach Evolution to white children (Barely an exaggeration), and his son/my cousin was smart enough to basically say “My Dad says you’re evil, but I’m actually going to be somewhat nice although still an annoying little bible thumping shit, because if you’re evil you have all the Satanic Video Games in VR!”
and I said “Well at least you have some level of thinking for yourself, here’s my Occulus (I’m not calling it a Meta), go nuts.”
Lately only my Aunt has been coming to Thanksgiving Dinners while the uncle and cousin have been staying at home, apparently she’s starting to get sick of their Right Wing Christofascist Bullshit.
For the record, she’s Anti-LGBT, Pro-Trump, and believes they eat dogs in Ohio, she’s just sane by comparison to her husband and son.
Like it’s the difference between “Trump’s racist, but at least he’s not a Democrat” Vs. “Trump is literally the Messiah, We’re gonna send the infidels to Christ for Judgement!”, Far Right Vs. QAnon Shit
We’re very civil about it in the hopes that she and hopefully the son too, can break away from her husband’s nonsense.
For the record: My aunt is the one related by blood, not the uncle.
I will say this, I hate Reddit Atheists; the kind that jump on your case for shouting “Oh God!” when you’re scared and worship the Sacred Texts of St. Hitchens. But if every religious person I ever met was like my uncle and his son, I’d totally get why Reddit Atheists are the way they are…
Last time the kid came to Thanksgiving, he was talking to my sister about Jurassic Park… Then during dinner when I was just making conversation, (Everyone eats at the same table, we don’t have a separate “Kid’s Table” sides they were in their late teens anyway) I made the mistake of treating dinosaurs as if they were real and not an elaborate creation of Hollywood.
He kept chanting “The Big Bang is a Faerie Tale, not a theory!” until I “apologized to Jesus for my blasphemy.”
They actually had to take him out of public school and put him in a private Fundie school because he kept failing his classes due to trying to claim most of History and Science didn’t actually exist on his assignments.
I’m deeply worried; one day that guy (He’s an adult now) is going to leave the bubble created for him by his Church and his father, and he will not be even slightly equipped to begin to comprehended the world outside.
What makes you think he’ll leave? I know plenty of adults 40+ that are still like the…
Mom and Dad have to die some time…
It may happen when he’s old and grey, rolling outside on his futurstic hover wheelchair wondering why people say it’s the hover-servos that make his chair fly and not Jesus.
Tell me about it, I don’t like my mom’s transphobia. I also don’t like the fact that she likes trump. At least she’s not a Christian Nationalist yet.
My dad is pretty chill at least and I try to be on good terms with him.
Tl;Dr?
TL;DR: My family’s “black sheep” are ultra-conservatives, while the rest of us range from liberals to full-on anarchists. My uncle, a cringy wannabe-cool guy, stopped talking to me after declaring I’m “possessed by demons” and blaming Mexicans, evolution, and Satan for everything. His son (my cousin) is a Bible-thumper but is at least polite because he wants to borrow my VR gear. My aunt (related by blood) still shows up for Thanksgiving but is only sane relative to her QAnon husband and son. We’re trying to civilly help her and maybe her son escape the culty nonsense, but the son is deep in Fundie school denial of history and science. Honestly, I’m worried for him when the real world eventually hits.
ChatGPT is good for something, amirite?
“but if you were so open minded why won’t you listen to Joe Rogan?” Actual point made by Trump supporting relative
My family all gets along great - no obnoxious relatives, no buried conflicts surfacing, etc. I always wonder how many people’s Thanksgivings are like the extremely overworked sitcom trope and how many are just happy get-togethers.
When I drive, i think about how often people are traveling to places they don’t want to go. If only we could all stay in our basements. If only we could be free.
That’s why conservatives use terms they cant define as insults: woke.
Attitude like this would make the problem worse, this is not how they see it and if they were to see this comic, it would push them away more.
Yeah, you’re right. We don’t want to offend any racists.
Ah yes. Calling those who disagree with you racist as a knee jerk reaction is truly the mark of an open minded and understanding person.
The uncle has a confederate flag, indicating that he subscribes to racist ideas.
What don’t you understand?
Open-minded and understanding?
This is an ironic comic. I’d say it’s making fun of both sides, but you know that’s not the intent so it’s just super cringey.
Edit: Oh, it seems I’ve upset the open-minded and understanding. Perhaps the irony has flown over their open heads. Enjoy distancing your family this Thanksgiving and not understanding why you grow less tolerated and heard by uncles.
Paradox of Tolerance
That’s exactly my point.
It gets thrown around like any flavour of the year amongst American blues, but I am starting to realise most people have no idea what a paradox fundamentally is. Rather they think it’s some sort of guiding idea because everyone keeps saying it and something about a philosopher—the entire premise whooshing over the heads of whichever tribalists “gotcha bombs” it entirely out of context.
Two comments of it here and I imagine at least one of you have never comprehended what it is and where they fit into it. Someone’s the chicken; someone’s the egg. A true idiot thinks they know the solution to that.
Where’s the part you think we are getting wrong in the below?
The paradox part of the paradox is that the tolerant are the intolerant.
This is what a paradox is.
a situation or statement that seems impossible or is difficult to understand because it contains two opposite facts or characteristics:
i.e. the tolerant (A) are the intolerant (B); the tolerant cannot be intolerant. A = B while A≠ B, yet both appear true. A paradox.
The result is a cascade that divides further and shifts power based on which tolerant group becomes the most intolerant of other’s ideas the most at the time; the ideologies meaning nothing in the end. The philosophy that the intolerant tend to have power.
In your cartoon, which starts with a question that immediately abandons any explanation of the paradox and then ironically just guides you on how to be participant in it, you eould see the paradox in effect if you go back just one step. Mein Kompf literally states how he was liberal and tolerant but had to cease that in order to stop the perceived intolerant for German nationalism. Is this a ideology you disagree with? Probably. But it doesn’t matter in the paradox.
Then becoming the intolerant himself, we know what happened next; power. Then the tolerant no longer tolerating him—EU and friends; power shifts to them. That’s the paradox. The intolerant is always the majority at the time; ideologies be damned. It’s a repetitive cycle conflicting itself—a paradox.
If you are coming from the perspective of an opposing ideology, you will of course not tolerate it. But that’s not the philosophical point. Subsequently, the red hats quote the exact same paradox inappropriately as well.
To approach it philosophically, as intended, you must first ask; what is currently considered intolerant in this society? You cannot have personal opinions influence it, else you have already missed the point. From there, you are able to ponder it appropriately. Philosophy is a thought exercise; not to be used as a ammunition of opinion battles. It is merely an observation to ponder and open deeper discourse.
Edit: Hey, y’all can oppose this comment, but in 1945 the conception of thought was established. If you have other ideas of that, you’ll need to propose a new idea instead of raping someone else’s idea as much as the other tribes
It’s really not complicated. It’s the point of it. You’re encouraged to expand on it with new ideas, not trying to reshape existing ones to suit your narrative. Philosophy 101.
Fair, but if the cartoon is a rebuttal of the premise of the paradox, which would seem to be that we can’t call it tolerance unless it’s absolute, it’s a rebuttal I accept.
Yes, yes, we should totally be understanding of the people who want to see my cousin dead and my uncle run out of the country.
/s because there are sadly a lot of people who legitimately think this way
What aren’t we understanding about, eh?
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Any possible reason why anyone could have voted for Trump besides being racist or an idiot. That blanket labelling half the country as Nazis wasn’t effective last time and isn’t effective now. That a large portion of the populace feels so desperate for change that they were willing to vote for the fucking cheeto supreme.
I voted for Harris, and I completely believe Trump was the worst fucking choice the voting populace could have made, but unless you’re actually calling for the extermination of roughly half the country there has to be some attempt at understanding or bridging the gap wherever it can be bridged.
If you were willing to vote for said cheeto supreme over egg prices, that makes you an idiot.
If you somehow think that those idiots are going to just magically disappear and we’ll suddenly be able to vote all the right people in without making any attempts to engage with and turn them, that makes you an idiot too.
Self righteous elitism is cathartic but does nothing to move any of us towards a better future. Nine times out of ten when I bring this up, people ignore it or suggest we somehow get rid of the Trump voters.
If there were an ethical way to get rid of or away from them, Id be down. As for reaching out, thats all well and good but I am not a politician and am under no obligation to be nice
unless you’re actually calling for the extermination
Only one group wants to exterminate people, and it’s not the folks avoiding their racist uncle at Thanksgiving.
What’s the end game though? We have to find some way to communicate with and turn the Trump voters if we ever want any chance of moving past this shitshow.
And just because you personally are not calling for their death doesn’t change just how fucking many people I’ve seen on Lemmy and elsewhere online openly call for it.
I see barely anyone willing to aknowledge the fact that roughly half the country voted for Trump. That can’t be ignored and the general sentiment I see is that the Trump voters need to be eliminated or otherwise disallowed to vote, rather than any serious attempts to figure out what can be done.
Self righteousness may be cathartic, but it doesn’t do anything for finding a fucking solution for this shit show.
I see barely anyone willing to aknowledge the fact that roughly half the country voted for Trump.
Half of voters who voted, not half the country. That’s a pretty big difference.
We have to find some way to communicate with and turn the Trump voters if we ever want any chance of moving past this shitshow.
I’ve been trying to do that for eight years. As have most of those of us not in the cult. When does it get to be “on them”, you know, the party of personal responsibility? Why is it always on us to mollycoddle them? I’m fucking done.
Self righteousness may be cathartic, but it doesn’t do anything for finding a fucking solution for this shit show.
My solution is that no Republican gets one ounce of interaction with me that I’m not legally or contractually obligated to give them. My maga relatives will get the degree of courtesy and interaction required by our relative positions within the family and geographic proximity.
Maga service providers or vendors will get none of my money if they make me aware of their alliances, which most of them are very happy to do.
The only remaining endgame is riding out the four years of shit they have handed us, hoping we actually get another election, and going to my grave without voting for a Republican or conservative for anything.
I’m beyond done with these selfish(edit - and hateful) assholes.
And by the way, I appreciate your kinder gentle approach.
Although I’m just going full “these people will receive nothing from me”, and I have no intent to consider any other approach, yours is the healthier way no doubt. 🙂
Is it the tankies? I see them talk about killing people a lot, last time I mentioned it cowbee or whatever his name is (he’ll comment under this with enough time I swear he uploaded his consciousness to lemmy) basically just said “well yeah, they deserve it,” they aren’t even trying to hide it anymore. And by their standards, many of us on lemmy are “liberal” enough to be considered by the tankies to be nazis, who they say they want to kill, meaning they want to kill many of us (possibly you included, if you’re not a hardline Marxist-Leninist, i.e “left enough to live for now”).
OH you meant racists. Well then, no there’s two groups. My mind went to tankies because we’re on lemmy so surely you haven’t missed those. OH .ml, I see…
My mind went to tankies because we’re on lemmy so surely you haven’t missed those. OH .ml, I see…
Don’t forget the group that assumes they know everything about everyone based on their Lemmy instance. Those folks can eat a bag of dicks!
I’d say we’re about 70 million short of there being enough tankies in the US to worry about. Magas on the other hand… So yeah, the racist magats and the rest of us cover all the cases being discussed here.
My point wasn’t that tankies are more numerous than racists, my point was that “only one group” is not accurate, being that there are “at least two groups.”
Furthermore, being a murderous dickhole is only a problem in sufficient numbers? Well by your logic I guess we don’t have to worry about the KKK then, there’s about 3k of them, which without checking I’m betting is less than grad+bear+ml users.
Sorry, I can’t subscribe to that, murderous dickheads and their ideologies are bad be they one or one billion.
LOL you want so bad to have a fight about tankies because I’m on ml so you think that’s something I like to fight about.
I have magas in my family I need to avoid for Thanksgiving. I don’t have any tankies. Neither, I can say with almost complete certainty, do you. Neither are they pictured in OP, because they don’t factor into the dynamic being satirized. In fact, I’m 95% certain no one reading this thread has a tankie in their family they need to try to avoid on Thanksgiving. Nor do they exist in sufficient numbers in the US to impact our nation or its politics in any substantive way. Inserting them in this discussion is a non sequitur at best and a troll at worst.
Please go find a tankie or someone who feels like defending them for the argument you want so badly to have.
Goodbye! 👋
Don’t forget the group that assumes they know everything about everyone based on their Lemmy instance. Those folks can eat a bag of dicks!
Nobody mentioned trump but you.
I mean, they’re wearing red hats in the second panel. They inferred Trump.
Are you kidding me? No one is really that stupid. We all know what the red hats in the second panel are supposed to be.
For one, the snide “tolerant left” comment is never about any particular person or party - it’s a bad faith attempt to discredit valid critique of hateful or harmful actions, unreasonably demanding universal tolerance of everything, including intolerance.
Second, the comic is explicitly about racists, basically all of which are going to be trump voters, but that says nothing about any other part of that group. Extrapolating that to be an attack on all of those voters is flipping the equation to fit your own outrage.
That you’re putting so much effort into defending trolls and racist is certainly interesting.
That you’re putting so much effort into defending trolls and racist is certainly interesting.
If you want to imagine that I’m part of that group, despite me clearly saying otherwise across many many comments, I can’t stop you.
Claiming that I’m trying to defend “trolls and racists” when I’ve been direct and specific about my points across my many comments on this post is also flipping the equation to fit your outrage or point of view.
As succinctly as possible: Denigrating, insulting, putting down, and condescencion towards people with differing political beliefs (especially when it’s a group as large as the Trump voting base) is not a recipe for successful movement forward towards a better future for the United States. Whether that’s fair or not doesn’t matter to this point. Whether they’re all the fucking worst or not doesn’t matter to this point. You cannot ignore or other a group this size and then be surprised when they react negatively back towards you. Who started it also does not matter to this point.
It sucks that this is the case. It’s a great big pot of unfair bullshit stew. Why should anyone have to even give those assholes the time of day, etc.
But unless you expect these people to magically stop existing, some way to work with or around them will need to be worked towards. I’d prefer to think that we’re better than advocating for a purge or removing peoples’ rights en masse, so that means that some amount of meeting people where they are and engaging with them as other people will need to happen.
The only one who can decide if they’re up for that effort is each individual person, but if no one even tries this shitshow won’t change.
One last time - the post is about racists. The comment is about racists. You’re the one trying to make it about anything else, which only serves to enable and legitimize racists. If that’s not your intention, I’d recommend changing your game plan, because so far, you look like an apologist for racists at best.
Bro thought he could speak freely here lmao 🤣
Haha, I can. Thats the beauty of it. I can express an opinion. I’m well used to this place fallaciously assuming that a single opinion against the grain must mean an all out attack against the tree.
It’s a funny little tree that thinks itself the centre of the forest.
I saw several variations on this exact meme over the last days, and it is so insanely idiotic I’m halfway to thinking it’s some sort of psy-op. Personally, I like shitting on conservatives as much as the other guy, and… do I really need to explain that one can’t simultaneously talk about Haha How Dumb Those Guys and also call yourself open-minded? The moment you do the former you have given up on the latter.
