Only US tech companies can harvest all that data from their products, I mean, customers.
I mean let’s be honest, that’s slightly better than US companies plus the Chinese Communist Party being able to do so.
They still can, they just have to go back to buying that data lmao
Everybody Sucks Here
It’s obviously more of a problem when a government that actually has agency over you harvests your data. If you can’t even understand this, then you’re truly lost.
What can China do to you? You don’t live there.
TikTok enacted a very obvious influence campaign to fight this legislation that resulted in congressional phone lines becoming jammed. So what China can do is directly influence our laws.
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Because your government can use the information against you while a government on the other side of the planet can’t.
Used to be true. See countries affecting populations in foreign countries. Propaganda is not local.
Problems with this app go beyond just privacy and bleed into national security.
You as a citizen of your country have an obligation to not freely offer yourself up as an attack vector for cybercriminals all so you could fry your brain with garbage media.
I hate America though
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just a case of the mask falling off
Case in point: all the college protests. All the arrests happening are from people being encouraged on TikTok to become aggressive and angry towards apartheid. But the question is how the fuck is protesting at a college going to change what a government in another country is going to do in any way? The Israeli government gives little to no fuck about kids opinions protesting at a college campus in the United States. It’s likely civil unrest being spread by TikTok.
All the arrests happening are from people being encouraged on TikTok to become aggressive and angry towards apartheid.
THEY ARE TRYING TO STOP THE GENOCIDE BEING PERPETRATED IN THEIR NAME
WTF is wrong with you?
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Israel is dropping US bombs. 🙄
How is protesting at a college going to stop it?
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Funded by Amerikan money. The government you uplift, and everyone who still supports them after eight months of unmitigated genocide, is complicit. Is a collaborator.
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College protests have been a thing since Vietnam. Look up Kent State.
It wasn’t China that gave them the idea, it was history.
And it’s working. More and more people are sympathizing with Palestine the more the government overreacts to peaceful protests.
If they don’t care then why did satanyahu come out in a speech against it? Protesting does work and does matter. You only need to look at history to see that
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Pretty sure people protesting in the US are trying to influence the US govt.
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As if all these other social medias don’t have garbage media or propaganda
We must return to AOL and Friendster.
That’s not the point
Fuck Amerika’s national security; I don’t claim this mf country. I don’t even think twice about lying about where I’m from when I’m in international circles that ask me what it is. If someone offered me citizenship with them to Yeonmi Park y’all asses, I’d do it in a new york minute.
Problems with this app go beyond just privacy and bleed into national security.
Entire world should ban US based apps in this case.
The U.S government doesn’t have the same ability as the CCP to just get whatever info they want out of corporations with no due process. The two are completely incomparable.
Do you seriously believe in this?
Do I honestly believe China has an easier time getting corporations to bend over and violate their citizens rights? Why do you need to clarify this??
What is the difference if both countries access to user data at the end no matter easier or harder way? US is trying to block Tiktok under the name of national security but US itself has been violating other countries’ national security and privacy of people of these countries for years. What bothers me is people like you support this hypocritical action.
Hypocritical action? China’s internet hasn’t allowed external companies to offer services since its inception. All I’m saying is if the US wants to treat Chinese companies like China has treated US companies that should be perfectly fine.
You’re out here complaining that China’s not receiving the same rights it fails to extend to other people and calling that hypocritical??
Here’s Bernie Sanders from a year ago talking about how a handful of companies control the news people see, read, and hear. TL:DR - He makes the argument that it’s not fake news, that journalists are usually hard-working and honest. He says the problem is the limitation of allowed discussion - what topics make it to the consumer. He says for instance that he’s never asked about wealth and income inequality.
I believe TikTok is being banned because as it stands now it brings topics outside the limits of allowed discussion to a lot of eyes in ways US government/companies haven’t proven able to control. If the issues justifying a potential ban were truly data security or mental health as some argue (not without merit mind you), then the legislation to address those issues would look a lot different and include companies like Meta, Google, Instagram, etc. Those are valid concerns but the new measure is clearly not designed around them.
Finally, we’ve seen how Trump can tie up the courts for months on end even after all his self-snitching. Thus I very much doubt we’ll see any actual action in the 9 months + 3 months grace period laid out for the resolution of the TikTok matter. There are too many constitutional and business law challenges in my (admittedly layman’s) reading of expert opinion.
Kinda like the not-so-unsupported conspiracy theory that musk bought Twitter to silence protest coordination. That Twitter was too useful to the ‘masses’ and the “sinister cabal” (not my words) said it needed to be taken out.
To reiterate: this is not my position but it is one I’ve heard that matches the sentiment expressed in the parent comment
I 100% admit that my take on the TikTok ban is opinion based on the hearings and arguments + the scope of the bill, so you aren’t being unfair. I have never heard that about the Twitter purchase - I had read it was a poor decision Musk made only half-seriously and then was basically forced to follow through with.
The conspiracy theory, which I must again say is not my opinion, states the reluctance of the purchase was either: (A) A show put on to obfuscate “the truth”, or (B) An internal power struggle between the ruling elites and Musk
Just explaining, not advocating. Please don’t @ me.
I believe TikTok is being banned because as it stands now it brings topics outside the limits of allowed discussion to a lot of eyes in ways US government/companies haven’t proven able to control
I mean, if this were true, that would mean you wouldn’t be able to find similar content on Western platforms. Are you really saying similar content isn’t readily available on YouTube? If so, what content?
That’s a solid criticism and I upvoted. I hadn’t thought about YouTube. Anecdotally I’ve had factual comments about how many kids are killed, what Israeli politicians say, etc. auto-moderated into oblivion on YouTube. But at the same time I get a lot of the facts I use from YouTube (basically never been on TikTok) so it holds water. I also get a lot of info from other sources, but I can’t think of something specific I’d get from them that I could never find on YouTube.
In my defense, I’m basing my opinion on why TikTok is particularly targeted on interviews like this one with Ted Cruz. He talks about how TikTok is specifically designed to push messages that are harmful to America, including what he calls pro-Hamas content but I suspect is actually anti-Israeli policy, pro-Palestine content. That is why I would argue there’s some evidence of a campaign against TikTok in particular that might skip over YouTube or other major platforms. Perhaps the Western powers feel that YouTube is still acceptably moderated towards their interests whereas TikTok isn’t. Perhaps Google is just too influential domestically.
Edit: I found a video I was looking for: Biden talking about passing the TikTok/Israel funding/Ukraine funding package. A bit of language he uses that I think is telling is “it continues America’s leadership in the world and everyone knows it” which could signal US dominance as a motivation and thus TikTok as a target and not US companies.
That doesn’t mean your point isn’t worth discussion, or that my points aren’t opinion. I’m interested to see how it develops. I’ve based my opinion on the conversations I can find and language used, but I’m open to adjusting my view if evidence prompts that.
I think this ban is completely agnostic re: content. The issue is more fundamental – it’s fully owned and operated by people in China. This is a geopolitical battle that is currently playing out across many industries. Social media grabs headlines where less sexy industry battles do not.
I think Tom Nicholas gives a great overview.
Also, fuck Ted Cruz with a 20 inch dildo. Don’t take anything that sniveling carcass has to say seriously.
it’s fully owned and operated by people in China
US private equity firms own more than anyone. WSJ: What Is TikTok Worth? Some Say $20 Billion, Others Say $100 Billion
[ByteDance founder] Zhang owns 20% of ByteDance, according to the company, though super shares have given him larger voting rights. Roughly 60% of ByteDance is owned by global institutional investors including Carlyle Group, General Atlantic and Susquehanna International Group. The remaining 20% is owned by company employees.
The CEO is Singaporean Shou Zi Chew and the VP is American Michael Beckerman.
TikTok is a subsidiary of ByteDance, and that the Chinese government exerts significant political influence over ByteDance really is not a question
I think it’s a many birds with one stone situation - an industrial battle, a move to monopolize for Facebook after years of lobbying, Censorship etc.
For one the YouTube algorithm is absolute dog shit compared to TT, which is literally the gold standard at this point.
If you haven’t tried, you’re seriously missing out. It’s legit incredible how good it is. I hardly use it because I prefer long-form content (and don’t honestly have much time) but I absolutely can respect what they created
Fuck all the algorithms, I don’t need any of that bullshit.
Nice username, btw 👍🏽
K… you alright? lol. What’s with the aggression 😂
Can you show us on the doll where the algorithm touched you?
Western SM is already in the pocket of the state and any content that goes against their values is suppressed.
Pro-Palestinian content on Tiktok can easily get traction and receive over hundreds of thousands, if not millions of views.
Considering that younger people are not watching regular media news, channels like fox just do not have comparative reach and they aren’t buying into the zionist propaganda like previous generations.
There are a lot of content creators who are articulate, succinct and organisation has come out of it. People have created sites & apps that list all corporations and products to boycott because of their support for Israel and it’s had an impact.
Sure, TTs algorithm can easily push you down unpleasant rabbit holes but that’s the nature of algorithms, not just specific to TT.
So there might be similar content on western SM but it’s being held down and isn’t showing on people feed ‘organically’.
I just did a brief search on YouTube and found pro-Palestinian content posted over the past week with hundreds of thousands of views too. I’m not arguing about the quality of the platforms, I’m saying this has more to do with geopolitical corporate hegemony (aka money) than with any specific content, as evidenced by the fact that this has been on the table since well before the Oct 7 attacks
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I just randomly selected this Channel 4 (3.8 million subscribers) video with 370K views on YouTube: Israeli soldier speaks out on war in Gaza. The next video it played was In Gaza now, it’s worse than ethnic cleansing from Al Jazeera. Then it gave me another Al Jazeera video, Norman Finkelstein on Gaza: The US could have stopped Israel on day one. From where are you driving your accusation that YouTube is delivering you any more pro-Israel content than TikTok?
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Just one of the first 20 hits when I searched for “Palestine.” I have to admit I’m struggling to find any pro-Israel content among those search results. Searching for “Israel” gives a more mixed bag, but still plenty of pro-Palestinian content mixed in
He is wrong though. When the war machine gets going we 100% have fake news. And the Journalists do not matter just look at New York Times massive Zionist propaganda takeover.
Oh shit, how did I miss the Noam Chompsky Bernie Sanders crossover episode!?
Thanks for sharing!
Anyone who has spent any amount of time on TikTok knows this is true. The narrative is beyond their control there, lots of eyes see. That terrifies them.
I agree with this. I think you’re right.
That is some top level propaganda. Mixing facts with half truths and fiction. Nice.
what does this do to the press freedom index ranking of the united states? nothing im guessing
These are advertisement platforms. Not free speech platforms.
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That’s your words
Can we have like serious discussion without these sensationalising but dumb quips? Is there any adult here at all in this room who would be willing to have a nice conversation about the dangers of safety vs control?
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You draw some false equivalency strawmans and look down upon thinking you are so smart. It’s idiotic. Are you able to have mature conversation at all?
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We should make an Adult in the Room bingo card.
Do you not want lemmy to succeed? People from reddit should be welcomed.
Yall are acting like Voat did when the_donald got banned and the MAGAs tried to migrate to voat. Hows voat doing these days?
Idk why so many people assumed they would its a data gold mine even with the USA blocked
I wonder if Tiktok will just make a seperate company that would comply before the 2025 ban comes to effect…
Or they will just exit the US market, interesting stuff.
I still think Glenn Greenwald views on this topic hold true.
“ByteDance doesn’t have any plans to sell TikTok,” the company posted on its official account on Toutiao, a social media platform it owns.
The sell-or-ban measure was signed into law by US President Joe Biden on Wednesday.
“We are confident and we will keep fighting for your rights in the courts,” said TikTok boss Shou Zi Chew in a video posted on the platform this week.
“The facts, and the Constitution, are on our side… rest assured, we aren’t going anywhere.”
The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would “inevitably come back to bite the US”.
The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would “inevitably come back to bite the US”.
The fundamental ethos of the US and its propaganda of why it’s the greatest country on the planet is the first amendment and the current bunch are absolutely destroying that illusion in plain sight of younger generations.
They’re sending billions for wars and to Israel supporting and assisting them in genocide yet are saying to the ones they expect to pay for it that there’s no money for healthcare, infrastructure, education, welfare, raising minimum wage, etc, etc, et al, and then still demanding they should receive their votes “because the other guys much worse”.
I see a lot of younger people saying that both are shit, that the system is rigged and they ain’t playing their game anymore. That is tantamount to revolution.
Funny how you concerned citizens always seem to mention Israel without also mentioning supporting Ukraine. Almost like it’s not on your talking points list.
If you don’t see an issue with a hostile nation state directly controlling something that is consumed by so many Americans, you’re not looking at it properly.
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Also because Ukraine is a nazi state. It has nothing to do with my “talking points” just that Ideologicaly I am opposed to The Ukraine, so I do not want support being sent to them.
Ah, so you’d be perfectly ok with Russia just expanding in Europe and invading the Baltics and Moldova? Oh, you’re a .ml user. Your answer is obviously yes.
Don’t stumble down that slope jackass
Who said anything about the baltics ot moldova?
Ukraine was doing a genocide and violated 2 treaties Russia granted aid and enforced the treaties, and then the areas voted to join russia
If you want to talk about the baltics we can, or Transistria, not Moldova, we can, but that wasn’t the topic of discussion
The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would “inevitably come back to bite the US”.
If instead of getting anything they are opting to get $0, that actually confirms the “paranoia”.
The fact that the two countries that are most accused of spreading disinformation (including using Western’s own social media) not only provide their own alternatives, but also bans Western social media shows that West wasn’t paranoid enough.
This makes sense as there still billions of other potential users around the world. Add to that the fact that other nations like content of their own cultures in their own languages. It means even if they will feel the change the platform won’t collapse because it is missing US users. Now If other countries follow in the US footsteps then it becomes a different story.
If you as a content creator have a choice between a platform with 3 billion people (US and India included), like Shorts and Instagram Reels, and one without (TikTok), where would you post?
This is a clear disadvantage given to tiktok only to protect its own companies cause if US actually cared about data and mental health, homegrown Tech companies would also face repercussions.
LETS NOT FORGET, China can VERY EASILY buy most of the data it needs from the open market which many US companies, including Big Tech contribute to.
This has done nothing for citizens. Only protected innovation less US companies.
Sayonara
Good fucking riddance.
Good riddance? Not really cause US still has clones of tiktok present like reels and shorts.
Nothing will change. Data will still be collected. China can easily buy data from the open market. Mental health will still be affected.
In fact, due to lack of competition, things will only get worse.
US and India are 2 moronic countries
Shorts fucking suck. It keeps recommending to me exactly four types of videos:
- stuff I have already watched, liked and commented – sometimes a few minutes prior
- videos I’m wildly uninterested with and systematically mark as irrelevant or instantly skip, yet it keeps bringing up videos of the same subject
- very old old “news” shorts
- stuff of people I’m subscribed to – which is fine, just not what makes great algorithms
Meanwhile, in a very short time, tiktok has managed to make me discover communities I had no idea I’d like to watch content from, while subtly managing to stop showing me some of the content from those communities I don’t enjoy
Since it hasn’t been mentioned yet; the real reason TikTok is being banned.
Sure. Ignoring that this started in 2020 during Trump’s presidency.
And back then the Republicans were the party screaming about banning TikTok.
Now that israel is involved this became a lot less partisan very quickly.
I vote Democrat. I and everyone I’m aware of who wasn’t already addicted to TikTok supported banning it.
Maybe if your arguments contained an iota of good faith, they’d be taken seriously
Can you explain why we don’t ban the other social media platforms?
Yes. This has been ongoing since TikTok acquired musical.ly. The CFIUS didn’t care as much until it became popular. TikTok has tried to comply, so why isn’t the CFIUS and there considerations being heeded?
This is the same conclusion Second Thought came to a while back in one of his youtube videos. While I don’t disagree with the conclusion, I also wouldn’t say it’s mutually exclusive to reasoning promoted by the mainstream media of "foreign influence. " What’s really wild is the idea that the ban is also being pushed by “foreign influence.”
Plausible deniability, 2 birds with 1 stone. There are hundreds of companies with foreign investors and influence. TikTok has tried to work with investigators and even spent $1.5 billion on a server framework for Project Texas. If TikTok was a crappy app and wasn’t the primary source of news for young adults, the government wouldn’t care.
You have got to be kidding. Did you really just link the canary? The same canary that got banned from Twitter for making antisemitic remarks.
They also failed dozens of fact checks.
I did. Because the leaked phone call is real.
That’s incredibly damning.
I enjoy your YouTube channel. You read Blackshirts and Reds to me.
Nice, thx! I’ve got 2 more books recorded recently, just gotta do the work of tagging and uploading them (should be ~week or so).
- Zak Cope - The wealth of (Some) nations.
- Domenico Losurdo - Nonviolence - A history beyond the myth.
And irrelevant. You are grasping at straws trying to connect all the dots in your conspiracy theories.
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The ban on tiktok was going through before palestine attacked Israel. This article is just pure speculation and conspiracy theories.
The Canary has faced criticism for claiming that Israel is an apartheid state for its occupation of the West Bank. According to the Jewish Chronicle, Kerry-Anne Mendoza, the editor-in-chief, had her Twitter account suspended when she compared Jewish Labour Supporters with South Africa’s Apartheid “Imagine if during a day of international solidarity with the oppressed of Apartheid South Africa the Labour leadership opted instead to spend the day with white supremacists. That’s what Keir Starmer and Angela Rayner are doing today.”
What great journalists.
The Canary has faced criticism for claiming that Israel is an apartheid state for its occupation of the West Bank.
So they’re getting criticized for being factually correct? Typical FIVE-EYES cracker bullshit.
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Won’t people just continue using the app? Wouldn’t it be as easy as side loading future installs?
You overestimate the tech literacy of the majority.
If the tutorial can’t be boiled down to a 30 second video, tiktok users aren’t going to be able to comprehend it.
It’s excruciatingly easy to side load on android, to the point where it is outright dangerous for laymen.
All it will take is a 30s tiktok showing how to side load and they’re done, tech literate or not
Worse. Unless they’re going to start the Great American Firewall you can just go to the website.
I expect that Tiktok will strart distributing the app as an apk on their website.
iPhone has left the chat.
But but but… the American government HATES having a light shined on it.
Banning TikTok in an election year is proof Democrats don’t want to win.
Lol it was bipartisan. Not just democrats, Republicans as well.
So what? This only pisses off the Democrat’s base and it will make them stay home.
Notably the ban doesn’t kick in until after the election, after which it may not even be Biden’s problem. Maybe ByteDance will shut it down sooner. Maybe the next administration won’t follow through with the ban. 🤷
It was smart to delay the ban. The original bill would have banned it before the election - monumentally stupid! This, at least, delays the impact.
People are paying attention, though, and TikTok has been buying ads to campaign against this law. It’s still going to have an impact.
And Biden himself has a tiktok account that pumps out content.
The whole thing is very cynical and weird.
It’s a piss poor attempt to try control tiktok and ensure they play along. They don’t really want it banned, they just want to control the flow of information and it’s absolutely destroying the illusion of the first amendment!
Ehhh…I doubt it.
The sell-or-ban measure was signed into law by US President Joe Biden on Wednesday.
This is the important part you might have missed, without a president signing it into law it means nothing.
Similar to when Biden said he would never sign a M4A bill (4yrs ago), he would veto, which became a deal breaker to some on the far left.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=biden+veto+medicare+for+all+bill
Well yeah, but saying this was all on democrats isn’t true, either. A democratic signed it, but an entire group of Democrats and Republicans are the reason it exists. Besides, I’m ok with the ban. A lot of people are actually, so technically, yeah it will affect who we vote for haha
Maybe in your circles people are okay with banning a social media company due to perceived ‘spying’, but in reality we know why the blues/reds want to ban it.
People in my circles are fighting and helping share why these bans are bad for our society and free speech in general.
I hope that helps you see a different view from what you are used to!
No, not really. It’s cool of you disagree with me, though.
What’s the overlap between people who vote Republican and people who use Tiktok? I’m actually curious.
The age range skews younger, so probably not huge. It’s definitely there though - lots of “tradwife” thinly disguised fetish content. 😒
There’s a reason Trump came out against this ban, he knows it’s going to be unpopular and he loses nothing by flip-flopping on it.
This is just a free W for Trump and an L for Democrats with literally zero upsides. It accomplishes nothing besides pissing people off!
lots of “tradwife”
Wild, I’ve never stumbled on any of that. But it has a really sensitive algorithm and I’m pretty firmly entrenched in the science-travel-pets axis.
Well, unless there’s a credible national security angle that’s being kept confidential. I kind of suspect there is, since Trump tried to push through similar legislation, but worded it so badly that it never got out of debate… and the likes of Wyden voted for it even while they said it was the wrong legislation to solve the problem.
The USA literally installed state department officials into TikTok https://scheerpost.com/2023/04/17/tiktok-chinese-trojan-horse-is-run-by-state-department-officials/
Lmao and then they get mad at communist political comissars.
Please don’t tell me you actually believe them when they cry about national security. It’s almost always a lie.
Usually it’s about economics. But in this case, it may actually be true.
Generally, I consider real natsec issues to be things they can’t tell the public. So when I see privacy minded reps joining in with reps from both side of the aisle, I’m willing to lend a bit of credence to a security angle.
Assuming it’s not just the US being upset that some other autocratic government is controlling the medium du jour.
… and so by whining about natsec they can get you to support anything, as long as they don’t tell you about it?
No, I ignore the whining and consider it may be an issue based on actual behavior, as I originally stated.
Hence the “in this case, they might be actually telling the truth” from the original statement.
Just because they over-use an excuse doesn’t mean that it isn’t true on the odd occasion.
The problem is that so much crying wolf makes it more difficult to tell when it’s real.
It’s actually already banned in multiple countries, especially for anyone in government positions.
According to the world map in this link the countries that have banned it outright are: North Korea, China, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Uzbekistan, Krzykstan, India, Nepal, and Somalia.
(For anyone else like me who has trouble with unlabeled maps).
What about according to the text on that damn page?
The text is poorly organized, the map is faster.
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The CPC can just buy data from a different broker. You think Alphabet or Meta are loyal to American interests?
Also, TikTok won’t be banned for months, so it won’t change the campus protests at all. In fact it’ll probably piss the protesters off even more, it’s very obvious government censorship.
Also also, there’s zero proof TikTok is promoting pro-Palestine/anti-Israel content. That’s just what is naturally popular, the reality is that all the other social media companies are suppressing pro-Palestine/anti-Israel content. That’s it.
You think Chinese-owned Tiktok is inciting anti genocide protests on purpose?
That train of thought has interesting implications. American-owned Facebook keeps being caught inciting actual genocides in other countries…
You’d be surprised. I used to work in a rural factory. All the big burly red-neck older men were on tiktok during their smoke breaks.
Yes, that is just another reason the DNC/Democrates will continue to lose support, compared to 2020.
Some also left the duopoly due to following the DNC Fraud Lawsuit, Bernie Sanders 2016.
Interesting times we are living in, we shall continue to follow!
Long as they dont criminalize possession
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Bye felecia
If we could have it banned in Europe or just Germany I would be happy for my people.
Just don’t use it if you don’t like it.
I dislike it. But no. Don’t be authorjtarian like China. Bann it on phones of those with security clearances, but that’s all.
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Ok boomer
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