• DankZedong
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    212 years ago

    Why do they deserve it according to you?

    Why are these people not victims of a diseased system? If I look at what most of them seem to want, which is financial freedom and freedom from the grind, I can’t blame them for trying. Even if I don’t agree with the methode (crypto).

    The whole point of me joining this ideology was that I wanted freedom from the meaningless grind for myself and others as well. I’m lucky to have found communism as an ideology but I could absolutely see myself becoming a cryptobro as well. Without guidance, you do what makes sense to you. And if you find a lot of people investing in a hard to get, seemingly endless pot of gold, you might want to chip in.

    We can be critical at these people. But we shouldn’t be hostile imo. After all, the big system has failed them again. What if they now find a better alternative in communism? And what if they are greeted with smug ‘I told you so cryptobro’ vibes? After all, we preach solidarity for our working class equals for a reason.

    • @PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      I would kinda restrain too from sneering at those people, but we also should not absolve them immediately. Critics should be in order. They are the victims, but they also had it coming, it’s not like it was the first time workers were duped into the pyramid scheme mired by the prospect of joining the renter parasite class. Also they conciously did wanted to do that, i get that due to the overwhelming TINA brainwash and shitty work conditions* they can be somewhat absolved from that but still - it can be turned into the argument why they were victimized.

      *Worth noting that those people are from aristocracy of labour to begin with.

      • @holdengreen@lemmygrad.ml
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        52 years ago

        What’s special about crypto? I mean what is ethical about working and spending in the imperial core? And how does trading some crypto add to the depravity?

        • Deer Tito (She/Her)
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          52 years ago

          Crypto is special because it has a huge environmental cost while mostly just serving as an investment. It is far too unstable and the cost of executing transactions are too high to serve as a currency for most purposes.

          From what I’ve seen it seems that it’s for the most part the same people getting rich off of crypto, as the ones who have gotten rich through conventional means, as they had the funds to invest early.

          • @Bobbycostner@lemmygrad.ml
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            2 years ago

            The environmental cost is something that mainly applies to bitcoin, Ethereum is moving to Proof of Stake which will reduce energy consumption by a lot. Even other Proof of Work coins use less energy than Bitcoin, Algorand is doing well. Eventually they’ll all go down that road so I think it’s a bit of a strange bandwagon everyone jumped on criticising crypto when it’s still at very early stages.

    • @NothingButBits@lemmygrad.ml
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      52 years ago

      Cryptobros present bitcoin as an hedge against inflation. The best hedge against inflation is Socialism, because things are priced according to their cost of production, not by how much profit someone will make.

      I personally got into crypto so I could buy a house, without having to enslave myself to a bank for 40 fucking years!!!

      • Preston Maness ☭
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        02 years ago

        Cryptobros present bitcoin as an hedge against inflation. The best hedge against inflation is Socialism, because things are priced according to their cost of production, not by how much profit someone will make.

        Commodities are sold at their cost of production in capitalism too. Profit is the surplus value that is stolen during the process rather than distributed to the worker.

        • @NothingButBits@lemmygrad.ml
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          22 years ago

          No, things are priced according to supply and demand market rules. This is quite inefficient and often leaves the most vulnerable at the mercy of speculators, since they can manipulate markets to serve their needs.

          Look at the price of oil. Its production costs have remained stagnant in the past years, yet its price has suffered heavy fluctuations. This is what happens in the absence of economic planning.

          • Preston Maness ☭
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            2 years ago

            Supply and demand describe the fluctuations of the prices of commodities about their costs of production. They do not describe the prices of the commodities themselves. Oil’s demand is relatively inelastic --and its supply constrained by cartels-- and as such its price can remain detached from its costs of production, enabling super-profits.

            Suggested reading:

            • Value, Price and Profit
            • Capital Vol I
  • @Bobbycostner@lemmygrad.ml
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    162 years ago

    There is a lot here to unpack.

    1. The MSM hates crypto and they love reporting when it’s down but are quiet when it’s doing well.
    2. Even stupid shit coins like Shib and Doge will rebound when bitcoin picks up.
    3. Banks and trading platforms need to be regulated much more for stocks and crypto. They purposely let people get in too deep. Crypto investment should be with spare cash you have, not loans etc
    4. Social media need to start being responsible along with knobs like Musk. People buying a coin because it’s trending on twitter is the dumbest shit ever.
    • Exactly why I’m not crying. I had some money invested in crypto (long story lmao) and yeah, crypto died along with my wallet value. But I still own the coins, just waiting until rebounds and then I’m leaving this sinking ship lol

        • ATA and DOGE is what I have right now, btc and eth are too stable for what I was doing. It worked well for a few months until the crash at the beginning of the year of course.

      • @holdengreen@lemmygrad.ml
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        22 years ago

        Same lol. I made a bit swapping eth for stab. Lost that or more in this crash.

        I lost more in something else that’s kinda embarrassing but hope I’ll get that back too.

        Some people still think BTC and other cryptos will continue to be valuable assets… Which is believable in a way because I think USD is going to become a crap currency and I like how if I buy some BTC or monero or something you actually own it as you own the keys.

        Some corporation or the feds can’t just siphon it from your bank for whatever stupid reason they think of or they can’t raid your home and confiscate it as easily like they are doing to people increasingly for whatever stupid political reasons.

        • @holdengreen@lemmygrad.ml
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          12 years ago

          Not to mention the western financial system is just abhorrent. The libertarians rebel against it because they see it impedes their ability to own property. Which is true because none of us really have that and the privilege actually owning the means of production will give us in a socialist society.

          For those reasons I have been a crypto advocate. Crypto let’s us undermine the financial system and it let’s us control our transactions without the knowledge or consent of the capitalists.

          And it had been a convenient way for me to make some money but seeing crypto advance I think some of those speculative elements need to be disabled.

    • ButtigiegMineralMap
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      62 years ago

      “Elon plz Pump Doge! I love Tesla and you’re the sweetest smartest oligarch I swear! Pump Doge or my daughter won’t afford her school lunch for the next 2 years!”

      • comrade_madoff
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        112 years ago

        Crypto is literally a ponzi scheme and will implode on itself, it’s weird having to tell this to people who call themselves communists. It’s literally just a new stock in how much can I tax the power grid and sell back the difference. You can make a shit load of money, but it is only really valuable especially with alt coin when you have enough capital to swing prices slightly enough to cause a spike then sell.

        • ButtigiegMineralMap
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          62 years ago

          Not to mention that Marx wrote about Fictitious capital, and how when interest rates(or other essentials) increase, investment into fictitious capital decreases generally. This should not be a big surprise that it doesn’t do well in an awful period of recession/inflation and increasing interest rates.

          • comrade_madoff
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            2 years ago

            It’s almost like crypto is only valuable if other people give a shit, whereas actual commodities have inherent value.

        • @Bobbycostner@lemmygrad.ml
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          02 years ago

          Calling all crypto a Ponzi scheme is pretty lazy thinking. You should probably try to understand the difference between them before trying to make that claim.

          • tbh your comment is pretty lazy thinking lol, this is coming from someone with crypto. all crypto is by definition fictitious capital, from the obvious shitcoin scams to btc and eth; the reason why its price is so variable is because it’s only tenuously tied to any sort of real-world value. one of the major reasons behind crypto’s creation was to avoid centralized banks, and yet centralized monopoly capital via investors, early adopters, and other means have incredible control over the entire crypto market.

            • @Bobbycostner@lemmygrad.ml
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              22 years ago

              Being an early adopter doesn’t give you control over the market. Being rich does. It’s no different to anything you can buy. If that makes crypto a Ponzi scheme then everything in the world is. As for not being tied to anything real. The same could be said of the dollar.

              • yes, early adopters account for likely a small portion of the total crypto market than rich people, i thought i made this pretty clear and your comment does not contradict anything i said.

                As for not being tied to anything real. The same could be said of the dollar.

                ding ding ding! correct, the dollar is essentially backed up by US imperial structures, and when it collapses will be replaced by national currencies that are backed up by both the value of trading with their respective countries and, in all likelihood, gold. the major difference between USD and crypto is that the latter has entire markets of capital investment and return despite the fact that crypto has little to no inherent value and additionally produces no value, thus being fictitious capital. this make crypto more similar to stocks and wall street than any national currency outside of post-gold-USD and the USD-era.

                • @Bobbycostner@lemmygrad.ml
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                  12 years ago

                  replaced by national currencies that are backed up by both the value of trading with their respective countries and, in all likelihood, gold

                  None of the other currencies are backed by anything either. No currency is backed by gold. Saying backed by government doesn’t really mean anything.

          • comrade_madoff
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            12 years ago

            It’s not, I just didn’t think I had to explain the problem with systems of private capital to communists. I do understand the differences between the types. I understand not all of them are mining coins, but that wasn’t my point really. There is no product, or service, crypto is essentially stored “work”(scientific definition sense) that you can convince idiots is valuable for more capital than you purchased it for. Even though none of the actual “work” is stored and the purchaser literally just bought the difference of an imaginary asset.

            • @Bobbycostner@lemmygrad.ml
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              12 years ago

              I understand not all of them are mining coins, but that wasn’t my point really

              The fact that you think that’s the only difference between cryptos shows your complete ignorance of the subject.

              convince idiots is valuable for more capital than you purchased it for

              Name one thing that people don’t try to sell for more than they bought it for.

              • comrade_madoff
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                12 years ago

                When you buy a stock, you technically own value in a for realsies asset in a for realsies company that produce for realsies commodities or services, the value is inherent in the service or products. The only value in crypto is line goes up, and line only goes up if people believe line goes up, but people don’t always believe line goes up. When line goes down, the only thing that saves it is the desperate cries of crypto asset holders begging everyone to hold their positions so their volatility stabilizes. Honestly it’s fucking amazing how well this has worked for years through sheer force of collective delusional financial ignorance. But a seperated economy that crashes more than the regular economy is not a place to put any faith… also why would communists want unregulated banking? How the fuck would resources be properly tracked and efficiency measured?

                • @Bobbycostner@lemmygrad.ml
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                  22 years ago

                  If you knew anything about crypto you’d realise that some crypto’s work the exact same same way. The crypto is what is used by the company and the value adds to the pool for transactions. You don’t know anything though. Besides that, a crypto is often more like a fiat currency than anything. Fiat isn’t tied to any commodity the same as crypto. There is no difference.

                  This whole thing about regulated banking is hilarious aswell. Maybe read a book and find out about all the financial crashes in history and how the regulators didn’t stop them. Also, crypto doesn’t mean the end of fiat. They can work alongside each other. Finally though this bullshit that communists can’t invest in crypto is fucking dumb. I don’t live in a communist country, I have no state looking out for me. Choosing ways to improve my financial situation is smart. Saying a communist wouldn’t do this could be applied to pretty much everything anyone does within a capitalist society. Should we all fucking starve to death and be “authentic” communists just to have some moral high ground? Unbelievable logic you have there.

      • @NothingButBits@lemmygrad.ml
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        32 years ago

        I think a massive rebound will happen, especially when the Fed pivots. Inflation is already slowing down, once they start cutting interest rates the tune will change. Stocks have been going up, crypto will follow.

        • comrade_madoff
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          2 years ago

          If you think this is as bad as the economy is going to get, wait until the housing market crashes this year, then still have faith in these bourgeoisie financial systems literally designed to Fuck You.

          • @NothingButBits@lemmygrad.ml
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            12 years ago

            I don’t have faith in them, but this policy of raising interest rates is unsustainable. The US economy is over-leveraged on debt, by raising interest rates this debt becomes unpayable. So they can only go so far.

            Another thing is that the reason for raising interest rates was proposed to combat inflation, which is already showing signs of slowing down. With oil going down and the new Inflation Act, it’s bound slow down to probably 2%-3%. This makes a Fed pivot to lower interest rates likelier.

            I am also expecting a crash to happen in 2023, and an even bigger rebound in stocks in 2024 because the Feds likely policy will be to print massive amounts of money to take us out of the recession. They’re printing bigger and bigger amounts of money each time. So stocks will go higher simply because the dollar is being devalued. Of course this is just speculation, so we’ll just have to wait and see what happens.

        • @holdengreen@lemmygrad.ml
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          22 years ago

          Wish I could actually get a job then… might work for my parents tho since I already have work from them. not the same as some short term employment to buy some more crypto now vs later