So I’ve realized that in conversations I’ll use traditional terms for men as general terms for all genders, both singularly and for groups. I always mean it well, but I’ve been thinking that it’s not as inclusive to women/trans people.
For example I would say:
“What’s up guys?” “How’s it going man?” "Good job, my dude!” etc.
Replacing these terms with person, people, etc sounds awkward. Y’all works but sounds very southern US (nowhere near where I am located) so it sounds out of place.
So what are some better options?
Edit: thanks for all the answers peoples, I appreciate the honest ones and some of the funny ones.
The simplest approach is to just drop the usage of guys, man, etc. Folks for groups and mate for singular appeal to me when I do want to add one in between friends.
y’all
Y’all doesn’t get enough love. It is gender neutral and extremely versatile.
Vosotros agrees.
Or in German: euch
I’m under the impression that you pronounce it the same way this cat looks.
You know… that’s about right.
😂😂😂😂😂
I still wonder why English (a Germanic language) doesn’t have its own pronoun for the plural 2nd person like German (euch) or Dutch (jullie), I think it kinda helps with distinction between talking to one person and talking to multiple people.
The problem is… what pronoun should we choose? I think “yinz” would sound kinda cool, but nobody outside of a very specific spot in the US actually uses it (other than myself I guess).
I agree. It’s the plural of “you” that should be the official standard, since it disambiguates “you.” It can even be broadened to include larger groups via “all y’all,” as in, not just y’all in talking to, but all y’all in the house.
It can replace “guys”, but not “man,” though.
The plural of you is yous or ye. In Ireland at least.
It’s become the go-to in my company
Do you work with me? I’m in the US south and my EU colleagues love “y’all” and have started using it (ironically or not :) pretty often.
Warms my heart.
I have no hint of a Southern accent, but when I moved here “y’all” became almost an instant part of my vocabulary.
A LOT of my company is remote, but we are headquartered in Providence Rhode Island.
I can’t do it, I don’t want to sound like I’m from the South.
If everyone starts using it, it won’t sound southern any more. C’mon, you know you want to.
Take it from them!
And, for larger groups, all y’all.
you’uns
Or if you’re near Pittsburgh, “yinz” is the proper spelling/pronunciation.
I use y’all a lot and im near Chicago
I’ve started using it and I’m Canadian.
I’ve started using it and I’m north of Canada … In Detroit
Did you know that you can be north of Canada … in California?
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-75f887668c7f322a0dd1a226e128cea3
At a more northern latitude than part of Canada. Detroit is directly north of part of Canada
TIL
What in the world. They need to fix that on the next patch.
Me too, but I’m from 'round Minnesota so it’s more like ja’ll.
yinz
Scott the Woz on Lemmy? :o
“Hey y’all, Scott here.”
Bingo. I use y’all for everything. Even the singular. It’s casual, neutral and relaxed.
yall sounds super trashy.
A lot of people use “folks” for plural.
I feel like “guys” is fairly un-gendered but people disagree with me. Personally, I haven’t used the word “guys” to refer to anything male in what seems like forever.
“Bud” and “fella” are good singulars.
I used to have a maths teacher who called almost every number “guy”.
“And this guy goes to zero, while this guy goes to infinity!”
I really, really wish we could degender “guy” and “guys”. I know plenty of people of all genders that use the words in general to describe people, objects, concepts, everything. The only holdouts are people that insist on it specifically meaning males. Ironically, these people are often the hardcore feminists.
If other English words can change their meanings and be claimed/reclaimed by certain groups, why can’t others?
Take guy! Use it to describe whatever you want! Free it of its historically phallic shackles!
I’m a cis woman in IT, I’m guy, dude, man, bro… I don’t really care. You can change to make a specific person feel more confortable but most woman don’t care to be dude or guy
Bud is very rarely used for women (or at least for me), but it is one of my favourite things to hear tbh
“Guys” is ungendered.
Reconsider whether it’s worth being friends with people that insist on fighting over the term “guys”.
And if you are surrounded by a lot of particularly sensitive people, just call them “friend” or “friends”. It works for people you both like and dislike. Glorious.
Sure, but as a professional (teacher) I’m not willing to put my career on the line by challenging a sensitive parent. A few years ago we were told not to use that word, and when it comes to things like that, I do as I’m told.
“Listen up you little shits”. Perfectly non-gendered!
That makes sense.
Teachers have to do a lot of stupid shit these days.
Aw yeahhhh, everyone’s into guys 🫦
(well, except aro/ace people maybe)
Modifying my language choices is literally the least I can do to make people feel more included, so anyone who can’t fathom doing that is for sure, not worthy of being a friend.
If you are in the Midwest, Guys is absolutely gender neutral.
Edit: downvote me all you want guys, it won’t change the truth.
Meh, people who want to fight over the term ‘guys’ are in the minority.
They can probably just be ignored.
It is indeed.
A wise man once said, “I’m a dude, he’s a dudes, she’s a dude. We’re all dudes. Hey!”
Out of the mouth of babes… 🥰
I believe that sentiment was also uttered by another wise man. A man of his time. Mr. Jeffrey Lebowski.
“Fuckers” is gender-neutral.
But it excludes asexual people /s
Comrade.
☭
Our tovarich
The simplest approach is to accept language is inherently gendered, and at a certain point it is exhausting to either take offense to everything or walk on eggshells.
I’m southern, so I use y’all almost exclusively lol
I’m more of a “be the change you wish to see” kinda person. I’ll neutralize my language to encourage others to do the same, eroding the banks of the river of language in the direction I wish it to go.
Nice picture
What’s up, cunts
Works best if they’re your friends and also you’re in Australia
I am pretty sure the “friends” part is optional in australia
Or Scotland
All the alternatives make me cringe.
If someone is insulted that you use the term “guys” for a group, they’re not worth being friends with. That’s a lot of exhausting mental energy to deal with. Ignore 'em and move on.
I’m AFAB enby, saying “you guys” and calling me “dude” is fine. Those to me aren’t gendered anymore. The people who get offended at general terms like these for groups of people need to touch grass.
But if you’re dead set on it, embrace y’all lol. Just don’t say it with a southern drawl and you’ll be fine. It’s a fantastic gender neutral term. You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
“Offended” is a bit of a strong word.
Many trans folks are, understandably, bummed out when gendered terms that refer to their AGAB are used to refer to them.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to avoid causing that brief moment of dysphoria. That just feels like a thoughtful and kind thing to do.
It’s good that OP means well, but also there are so many of us who do not care and are not affected because we know the speaker is using a generalized term and isn’t (usually) being malicious with it. I call several of my cisgender girl friends “dude” and “bro” and I’ll call men “girl” as a joke sometimes (like, girl what are you doing?). Many of these terms simply have completely lost their original gendered meaning in a lot of contexts.
I’m also on Team “these words have lost their meaning” but often feel opposite to OP’s intent
When people go out of their way to force inclusive language to a degree that feels unnatural, and especially when I’m the only trans person in the room, it feels like I’m being singled out for my identity. It’s extra uncomfortable when they make (often incorrect) assumptions about my body while doing so.
That said, I will also never fault someone for trying to be inclusive, and ofc always respect other people’s preferences.
Good point dude
That’s great, and it’s nice that you don’t have to deal with that jolt of dysphoria in those situations.
I’m simply saying that it’s also common (and okay) to not be entirely comfortable with those terms. Especially from strangers or acquaintances.
I don’t think seeking to reduce the linguistic pattern of male as the default is a misguided effort.
You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
This is likely the best solution, but also a hard one. Thanks for the perspective though.
Yeah I agree, bro, but I wouldn’t use guys or dudes on old ladies
Well no lol you gotta read the room sometimes 😅
No southern drawl? Y’all is like our one positive contribution don’t take it away from those of us who ain’t bigots
Meatbags.
Negative, I am a meat Popsicle.
I find “y’all” works pretty well, so does “folks” or even better “Fellow Workers.”
“Y’all” is Texas’ greatest cultural contribution IMO.
Texas does not get to claim that 100%, Georgia, Alabama, the Carolinas, Tennessee, and Mississippi own a good bit of that
I’ve noticed people using these more but I hate them. It’s a cultural thing. I’m a New Zealander and y’all sound American redneck to me and folks just sounds weird.
Rich coming from someone who says ‘nor’ instead of ‘no’.
/s
Seriously, I love NZ and can’t wait to get back there. I’ve only met a few shitty kiwis and they were all here in the US lmao
All it takes is using it for a bit, and it doesn’t.
Nah. To me this is like suggesting to Americans that they start saying “good sirs” as a greeting. It grates
Fucker.
Oi, stop being a cunt - some Auzzie
Wait, I take back my suggestion. This is it.
Take off ya hoser - some Canadian
'round here “guys” has become gender neutral. But “folks” is my go-to.
Same. And i will die on the hill that dude is gender neutral. Dudette sounds like a mini dude, and no way am i calling into question any dudes “dudeness” on account of their gender.
My 8 yr old grand daughter calls everyone “bro”. Including her mom!
Thats my point! My cis woman SO? dude. My trans woman friend? dude. Shes no longer with us, but my very very princess like girl dog? fucking dude.
I feel like i def call my SO, bro, too.
I subscribe to the “Goodburger” school of thought on the subject: I’m a dude, you’re a dude, he’s a dude, she’s a dude, we’re all dudes.
What about El Duderino, if you’re not into the whole brevity thing? 😁
Yes to receiving, no to giving. :p
Guy is actually from the proper name Guy, variant of Guido. It was originally used as a mild insult, refering to Guy Fawkes, infamous terrorist.
I think “guys” is perfectly gender neutral, in the same way “you idiots” is.
Haha love it.
Man, guys, buddy, etc
Just use them as gender neutral. Done.
I’m not your buddy, pal!
I’m not your pal, fwend!
Tack on bro, sis, king, queen, and dude, and you’ve got a ton of words to choose from
How many guys have you had sex with recently?
It’s context-dependent. “They” as gender-neutral was also considered context-dependent until recently.
- “I met someone and they said…” would have been accepted generally
- “I met a woman and they said…” is only recently acceptable.
I agree that it can sometimes be gender neutral. I do not agree that it is gender neutral.
Referring to a group of people with a trans woman in it as “you guys” is passive aggressive for example.
It would be worse to treat trans women differently than other women.
Some people object to this usage of “you guys.” Some people also object to “y’all.” I know someone who dislikes “y’all” because it reminds them of confederacy and slavery.
If there is someone who expresses discomfort with certain words, it’s usually best to avoid those words in their presence.
By the way, nobody can be expected to know whether or not a woman they are talking to is transgender. “You guys” should not be avoided for the sake of trans women if it isn’t avoided for the sake of all women.
Literally a trans woman. It is also rude to cis women but cis women don’t really worry about being misgendered the same way.
Literally a cis woman. I’ll avoid calling you you guys. My trans friends approve of its usage though. I don’t find its usage rude when applied to me. Please don’t try to play the identity card just to win an argument.
How much have you read on setting male as the default as it relates to misogyny?
I’m not invalidating your experiences, and you do you. I wouldn’t put it past shitty people to use it passive-aggressively as a way to misgender someone, and if you’ve experienced that, I am truly sorry you’ve had to deal with such shitheads.
At the same time, I know plenty of trans and cis women that don’t see it as rude or invalidating of their gender identity, and even use it themselves to refer to groups of people with mixed genders.
It’s a matter of boundaries and knowing one’s company. Some people are cool with it, and some people aren’t. It would be nice if everyone was using ungendered terms by default, but that’s going to take a while, unfortunately.
Hoe isn’t really a gender-neutral term. It’s really rude to call someone a gardening tool.
Fellow kids
