Fuelled by hype and hysteria, the market in bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies went from an obscure niche to a $3tn industry. Then the house of cards collapsed
Crypto is literally a ponzi scheme and will implode on itself, it’s weird having to tell this to people who call themselves communists. It’s literally just a new stock in how much can I tax the power grid and sell back the difference. You can make a shit load of money, but it is only really valuable especially with alt coin when you have enough capital to swing prices slightly enough to cause a spike then sell.
Not to mention that Marx wrote about Fictitious capital, and how when interest rates(or other essentials) increase, investment into fictitious capital decreases generally. This should not be a big surprise that it doesn’t do well in an awful period of recession/inflation and increasing interest rates.
Calling all crypto a Ponzi scheme is pretty lazy thinking. You should probably try to understand the difference between them before trying to make that claim.
tbh your comment is pretty lazy thinking lol, this is coming from someone with crypto. all crypto is by definition fictitious capital, from the obvious shitcoin scams to btc and eth; the reason why its price is so variable is because it’s only tenuously tied to any sort of real-world value. one of the major reasons behind crypto’s creation was to avoid centralized banks, and yet centralized monopoly capital via investors, early adopters, and other means have incredible control over the entire crypto market.
Being an early adopter doesn’t give you control over the market. Being rich does. It’s no different to anything you can buy.
If that makes crypto a Ponzi scheme then everything in the world is.
As for not being tied to anything real. The same could be said of the dollar.
yes, early adopters account for likely a small portion of the total crypto market than rich people, i thought i made this pretty clear and your comment does not contradict anything i said.
As for not being tied to anything real. The same could be said of the dollar.
ding ding ding! correct, the dollar is essentially backed up by US imperial structures, and when it collapses will be replaced by national currencies that are backed up by both the value of trading with their respective countries and, in all likelihood, gold. the major difference between USD and crypto is that the latter has entire markets of capital investment and return despite the fact that crypto has little to no inherent value and additionally produces no value, thus being fictitious capital. this make crypto more similar to stocks and wall street than any national currency outside of post-gold-USD and the USD-era.
It’s not, I just didn’t think I had to explain the problem with systems of private capital to communists. I do understand the differences between the types. I understand not all of them are mining coins, but that wasn’t my point really. There is no product, or service, crypto is essentially stored “work”(scientific definition sense) that you can convince idiots is valuable for more capital than you purchased it for. Even though none of the actual “work” is stored and the purchaser literally just bought the difference of an imaginary asset.
When you buy a stock, you technically own value in a for realsies asset in a for realsies company that produce for realsies commodities or services, the value is inherent in the service or products. The only value in crypto is line goes up, and line only goes up if people believe line goes up, but people don’t always believe line goes up. When line goes down, the only thing that saves it is the desperate cries of crypto asset holders begging everyone to hold their positions so their volatility stabilizes. Honestly it’s fucking amazing how well this has worked for years through sheer force of collective delusional financial ignorance. But a seperated economy that crashes more than the regular economy is not a place to put any faith… also why would communists want unregulated banking? How the fuck would resources be properly tracked and efficiency measured?
If you knew anything about crypto you’d realise that some crypto’s work the exact same same way. The crypto is what is used by the company and the value adds to the pool for transactions. You don’t know anything though.
Besides that, a crypto is often more like a fiat currency than anything. Fiat isn’t tied to any commodity the same as crypto. There is no difference.
This whole thing about regulated banking is hilarious aswell. Maybe read a book and find out about all the financial crashes in history and how the regulators didn’t stop them.
Also, crypto doesn’t mean the end of fiat. They can work alongside each other.
Finally though this bullshit that communists can’t invest in crypto is fucking dumb. I don’t live in a communist country, I have no state looking out for me. Choosing ways to improve my financial situation is smart. Saying a communist wouldn’t do this could be applied to pretty much everything anyone does within a capitalist society.
Should we all fucking starve to death and be “authentic” communists just to have some moral high ground? Unbelievable logic you have there.
A. I definitely have probably a more defined understanding of politics and their relation to economy than most people in the world as I’m a political scientist working towards a doctorate in system science, which by definition is the field of understanding structures of all systems. Please give me a book and I’ll try and find time to read it.
B. I didn’t say no one could participate in crypto, I just was trying to point out it is a ponzi scheme. You can make money on a ponzi scheme, otherwise they wouldn’t exist, it just depends on how you enter the space.
C. The reason financial crashes aren’t stopped by institutions in the past is that financial crashes created huge opportunities for the rich to purchase assets on discount so there is no incentive to stop them in capitalist systems.
D. I invest in stocks, shit I’ve a few hundred dollars in Yuan, I am not saying don’t make money if you can. I am saying do not pretend it is anything other than a clever manipulation of finance, because it’s not. The second capitalist structures are no longer hegemonic, crypto finance should be targeted with prejudice.
Your only arguments that they are a Ponzi scheme are they are worth more over time which covers virtually everything that exists and that it isn’t real which covers all fiat currency.
Having something against decentralised finance when centralised finance is such a con seems strange aswell.
I think a massive rebound will happen, especially when the Fed pivots. Inflation is already slowing down, once they start cutting interest rates the tune will change. Stocks have been going up, crypto will follow.
If you think this is as bad as the economy is going to get, wait until the housing market crashes this year, then still have faith in these bourgeoisie financial systems literally designed to Fuck You.
I don’t have faith in them, but this policy of raising interest rates is unsustainable. The US economy is over-leveraged on debt, by raising interest rates this debt becomes unpayable. So they can only go so far.
Another thing is that the reason for raising interest rates was proposed to combat inflation, which is already showing signs of slowing down. With oil going down and the new Inflation Act, it’s bound slow down to probably 2%-3%. This makes a Fed pivot to lower interest rates likelier.
I am also expecting a crash to happen in 2023, and an even bigger rebound in stocks in 2024 because the Feds likely policy will be to print massive amounts of money to take us out of the recession. They’re printing bigger and bigger amounts of money each time. So stocks will go higher simply because the dollar is being devalued. Of course this is just speculation, so we’ll just have to wait and see what happens.
Wish I could actually get a job then… might work for my parents tho since I already have work from them. not the same as some short term employment to buy some more crypto now vs later
why is everyone acting like crypto is just done for ever now? If so I’ve lost a lot of money.
Crypto is literally a ponzi scheme and will implode on itself, it’s weird having to tell this to people who call themselves communists. It’s literally just a new stock in how much can I tax the power grid and sell back the difference. You can make a shit load of money, but it is only really valuable especially with alt coin when you have enough capital to swing prices slightly enough to cause a spike then sell.
Not to mention that Marx wrote about Fictitious capital, and how when interest rates(or other essentials) increase, investment into fictitious capital decreases generally. This should not be a big surprise that it doesn’t do well in an awful period of recession/inflation and increasing interest rates.
It’s almost like crypto is only valuable if other people give a shit, whereas actual commodities have inherent value.
Calling all crypto a Ponzi scheme is pretty lazy thinking. You should probably try to understand the difference between them before trying to make that claim.
tbh your comment is pretty lazy thinking lol, this is coming from someone with crypto. all crypto is by definition fictitious capital, from the obvious shitcoin scams to btc and eth; the reason why its price is so variable is because it’s only tenuously tied to any sort of real-world value. one of the major reasons behind crypto’s creation was to avoid centralized banks, and yet centralized monopoly capital via investors, early adopters, and other means have incredible control over the entire crypto market.
Being an early adopter doesn’t give you control over the market. Being rich does. It’s no different to anything you can buy. If that makes crypto a Ponzi scheme then everything in the world is. As for not being tied to anything real. The same could be said of the dollar.
yes, early adopters account for likely a small portion of the total crypto market than rich people, i thought i made this pretty clear and your comment does not contradict anything i said.
ding ding ding! correct, the dollar is essentially backed up by US imperial structures, and when it collapses will be replaced by national currencies that are backed up by both the value of trading with their respective countries and, in all likelihood, gold. the major difference between USD and crypto is that the latter has entire markets of capital investment and return despite the fact that crypto has little to no inherent value and additionally produces no value, thus being fictitious capital. this make crypto more similar to stocks and wall street than any national currency outside of post-gold-USD and the USD-era.
None of the other currencies are backed by anything either. No currency is backed by gold. Saying backed by government doesn’t really mean anything.
It’s not, I just didn’t think I had to explain the problem with systems of private capital to communists. I do understand the differences between the types. I understand not all of them are mining coins, but that wasn’t my point really. There is no product, or service, crypto is essentially stored “work”(scientific definition sense) that you can convince idiots is valuable for more capital than you purchased it for. Even though none of the actual “work” is stored and the purchaser literally just bought the difference of an imaginary asset.
The fact that you think that’s the only difference between cryptos shows your complete ignorance of the subject.
Name one thing that people don’t try to sell for more than they bought it for.
When you buy a stock, you technically own value in a for realsies asset in a for realsies company that produce for realsies commodities or services, the value is inherent in the service or products. The only value in crypto is line goes up, and line only goes up if people believe line goes up, but people don’t always believe line goes up. When line goes down, the only thing that saves it is the desperate cries of crypto asset holders begging everyone to hold their positions so their volatility stabilizes. Honestly it’s fucking amazing how well this has worked for years through sheer force of collective delusional financial ignorance. But a seperated economy that crashes more than the regular economy is not a place to put any faith… also why would communists want unregulated banking? How the fuck would resources be properly tracked and efficiency measured?
If you knew anything about crypto you’d realise that some crypto’s work the exact same same way. The crypto is what is used by the company and the value adds to the pool for transactions. You don’t know anything though. Besides that, a crypto is often more like a fiat currency than anything. Fiat isn’t tied to any commodity the same as crypto. There is no difference.
This whole thing about regulated banking is hilarious aswell. Maybe read a book and find out about all the financial crashes in history and how the regulators didn’t stop them. Also, crypto doesn’t mean the end of fiat. They can work alongside each other. Finally though this bullshit that communists can’t invest in crypto is fucking dumb. I don’t live in a communist country, I have no state looking out for me. Choosing ways to improve my financial situation is smart. Saying a communist wouldn’t do this could be applied to pretty much everything anyone does within a capitalist society. Should we all fucking starve to death and be “authentic” communists just to have some moral high ground? Unbelievable logic you have there.
A. I definitely have probably a more defined understanding of politics and their relation to economy than most people in the world as I’m a political scientist working towards a doctorate in system science, which by definition is the field of understanding structures of all systems. Please give me a book and I’ll try and find time to read it.
B. I didn’t say no one could participate in crypto, I just was trying to point out it is a ponzi scheme. You can make money on a ponzi scheme, otherwise they wouldn’t exist, it just depends on how you enter the space.
C. The reason financial crashes aren’t stopped by institutions in the past is that financial crashes created huge opportunities for the rich to purchase assets on discount so there is no incentive to stop them in capitalist systems.
D. I invest in stocks, shit I’ve a few hundred dollars in Yuan, I am not saying don’t make money if you can. I am saying do not pretend it is anything other than a clever manipulation of finance, because it’s not. The second capitalist structures are no longer hegemonic, crypto finance should be targeted with prejudice.
Your only arguments that they are a Ponzi scheme are they are worth more over time which covers virtually everything that exists and that it isn’t real which covers all fiat currency. Having something against decentralised finance when centralised finance is such a con seems strange aswell.
I think a massive rebound will happen, especially when the Fed pivots. Inflation is already slowing down, once they start cutting interest rates the tune will change. Stocks have been going up, crypto will follow.
If you think this is as bad as the economy is going to get, wait until the housing market crashes this year, then still have faith in these bourgeoisie financial systems literally designed to Fuck You.
I don’t have faith in them, but this policy of raising interest rates is unsustainable. The US economy is over-leveraged on debt, by raising interest rates this debt becomes unpayable. So they can only go so far.
Another thing is that the reason for raising interest rates was proposed to combat inflation, which is already showing signs of slowing down. With oil going down and the new Inflation Act, it’s bound slow down to probably 2%-3%. This makes a Fed pivot to lower interest rates likelier.
I am also expecting a crash to happen in 2023, and an even bigger rebound in stocks in 2024 because the Feds likely policy will be to print massive amounts of money to take us out of the recession. They’re printing bigger and bigger amounts of money each time. So stocks will go higher simply because the dollar is being devalued. Of course this is just speculation, so we’ll just have to wait and see what happens.
I find it hilarious. Crypto hasn’t even really got started as far as I’m concerned.
Wish I could actually get a job then… might work for my parents tho since I already have work from them. not the same as some short term employment to buy some more crypto now vs later