Fuelled by hype and hysteria, the market in bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies went from an obscure niche to a $3tn industry. Then the house of cards collapsed
It’s not, I just didn’t think I had to explain the problem with systems of private capital to communists. I do understand the differences between the types. I understand not all of them are mining coins, but that wasn’t my point really. There is no product, or service, crypto is essentially stored “work”(scientific definition sense) that you can convince idiots is valuable for more capital than you purchased it for. Even though none of the actual “work” is stored and the purchaser literally just bought the difference of an imaginary asset.
When you buy a stock, you technically own value in a for realsies asset in a for realsies company that produce for realsies commodities or services, the value is inherent in the service or products. The only value in crypto is line goes up, and line only goes up if people believe line goes up, but people don’t always believe line goes up. When line goes down, the only thing that saves it is the desperate cries of crypto asset holders begging everyone to hold their positions so their volatility stabilizes. Honestly it’s fucking amazing how well this has worked for years through sheer force of collective delusional financial ignorance. But a seperated economy that crashes more than the regular economy is not a place to put any faith… also why would communists want unregulated banking? How the fuck would resources be properly tracked and efficiency measured?
If you knew anything about crypto you’d realise that some crypto’s work the exact same same way. The crypto is what is used by the company and the value adds to the pool for transactions. You don’t know anything though.
Besides that, a crypto is often more like a fiat currency than anything. Fiat isn’t tied to any commodity the same as crypto. There is no difference.
This whole thing about regulated banking is hilarious aswell. Maybe read a book and find out about all the financial crashes in history and how the regulators didn’t stop them.
Also, crypto doesn’t mean the end of fiat. They can work alongside each other.
Finally though this bullshit that communists can’t invest in crypto is fucking dumb. I don’t live in a communist country, I have no state looking out for me. Choosing ways to improve my financial situation is smart. Saying a communist wouldn’t do this could be applied to pretty much everything anyone does within a capitalist society.
Should we all fucking starve to death and be “authentic” communists just to have some moral high ground? Unbelievable logic you have there.
A. I definitely have probably a more defined understanding of politics and their relation to economy than most people in the world as I’m a political scientist working towards a doctorate in system science, which by definition is the field of understanding structures of all systems. Please give me a book and I’ll try and find time to read it.
B. I didn’t say no one could participate in crypto, I just was trying to point out it is a ponzi scheme. You can make money on a ponzi scheme, otherwise they wouldn’t exist, it just depends on how you enter the space.
C. The reason financial crashes aren’t stopped by institutions in the past is that financial crashes created huge opportunities for the rich to purchase assets on discount so there is no incentive to stop them in capitalist systems.
D. I invest in stocks, shit I’ve a few hundred dollars in Yuan, I am not saying don’t make money if you can. I am saying do not pretend it is anything other than a clever manipulation of finance, because it’s not. The second capitalist structures are no longer hegemonic, crypto finance should be targeted with prejudice.
Your only arguments that they are a Ponzi scheme are they are worth more over time which covers virtually everything that exists and that it isn’t real which covers all fiat currency.
Having something against decentralised finance when centralised finance is such a con seems strange aswell.
Here’s the definition of a ponzi scheme from Investor.gov:
A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that pays existing investors with funds collected from new investors. Ponzi schemes are named after Charles Ponzi. In the 1920s, Ponzi promised investors a 50% return within a few months for what he claimed was an investment in international mail coupons. Ponzi used funds from new investors to pay fake “returns” to earlier investors.
Crypto is literally exactly that but with electronic payments. That’s it, there is no service, there is no asset, there is no ownership without access, there is no value outside YOUR ability to resell it at a profit. THAT is a PONZI SCHEME. There’s no commodity to be gained like a stock, no institutional backing with fucking guns like a fiat currency. If you made money using crypto, cool, I congratulate you.
Regardless of whether you are benefiting or not doesn’t stop it from being a scam, and shit I’ll even contend it’s probably more ethical capital accumulation than grenading bank wagons like Stalin did.
Ponzi used funds from new investors to pay fake “returns” to earlier investors.
Yeah the same as every trade of everything ever. New investors pay the ones selling. I’m fully aware of the terms origins.
There’s no commodity to be gained like a stock
Commodity definition
“a raw material or primary agricultural product that can be bought and sold, such as copper or coffee”
So your Microsoft stock buys commodities does it?
That’s it, there is no service
This just shows you don’t understand crypto because many offer services. From logistics to inventory to banking to retail to so much more. You just don’t know enough to make a judgement so you just repeat the nonsense you’ve heard.
Alright fine, you win. I obviously can’t win with some one who thinks all modes of trade are ponzi schemes.
You’re right, I didn’t mean commodity, I meant ownership, thanks for pointing that out.
What services are offered? Please give me examples, because the kinds of services I have seen advertised are all specifically only services because the crypto market exists in the first place, self servicing. Like acting as a 1 to 1 currency with stable coins, that still fail. Or coins that give you some kind of game asset that wouldn’t existed if the system wasn’t there in the first place. And honestly give me examples, I asked for a book or something to reference and it was totally ignored. I want to actually engage you on this, I don’t really give a shit if I’m wrong. I don’t have any crypto, I was interested in it and I read white papers for bitcoin and eth back in the day, and did some purchases and was utterly unconvinced, but please I insist actually give me a reference for me to address.
It’s not, I just didn’t think I had to explain the problem with systems of private capital to communists. I do understand the differences between the types. I understand not all of them are mining coins, but that wasn’t my point really. There is no product, or service, crypto is essentially stored “work”(scientific definition sense) that you can convince idiots is valuable for more capital than you purchased it for. Even though none of the actual “work” is stored and the purchaser literally just bought the difference of an imaginary asset.
The fact that you think that’s the only difference between cryptos shows your complete ignorance of the subject.
Name one thing that people don’t try to sell for more than they bought it for.
When you buy a stock, you technically own value in a for realsies asset in a for realsies company that produce for realsies commodities or services, the value is inherent in the service or products. The only value in crypto is line goes up, and line only goes up if people believe line goes up, but people don’t always believe line goes up. When line goes down, the only thing that saves it is the desperate cries of crypto asset holders begging everyone to hold their positions so their volatility stabilizes. Honestly it’s fucking amazing how well this has worked for years through sheer force of collective delusional financial ignorance. But a seperated economy that crashes more than the regular economy is not a place to put any faith… also why would communists want unregulated banking? How the fuck would resources be properly tracked and efficiency measured?
If you knew anything about crypto you’d realise that some crypto’s work the exact same same way. The crypto is what is used by the company and the value adds to the pool for transactions. You don’t know anything though. Besides that, a crypto is often more like a fiat currency than anything. Fiat isn’t tied to any commodity the same as crypto. There is no difference.
This whole thing about regulated banking is hilarious aswell. Maybe read a book and find out about all the financial crashes in history and how the regulators didn’t stop them. Also, crypto doesn’t mean the end of fiat. They can work alongside each other. Finally though this bullshit that communists can’t invest in crypto is fucking dumb. I don’t live in a communist country, I have no state looking out for me. Choosing ways to improve my financial situation is smart. Saying a communist wouldn’t do this could be applied to pretty much everything anyone does within a capitalist society. Should we all fucking starve to death and be “authentic” communists just to have some moral high ground? Unbelievable logic you have there.
A. I definitely have probably a more defined understanding of politics and their relation to economy than most people in the world as I’m a political scientist working towards a doctorate in system science, which by definition is the field of understanding structures of all systems. Please give me a book and I’ll try and find time to read it.
B. I didn’t say no one could participate in crypto, I just was trying to point out it is a ponzi scheme. You can make money on a ponzi scheme, otherwise they wouldn’t exist, it just depends on how you enter the space.
C. The reason financial crashes aren’t stopped by institutions in the past is that financial crashes created huge opportunities for the rich to purchase assets on discount so there is no incentive to stop them in capitalist systems.
D. I invest in stocks, shit I’ve a few hundred dollars in Yuan, I am not saying don’t make money if you can. I am saying do not pretend it is anything other than a clever manipulation of finance, because it’s not. The second capitalist structures are no longer hegemonic, crypto finance should be targeted with prejudice.
Your only arguments that they are a Ponzi scheme are they are worth more over time which covers virtually everything that exists and that it isn’t real which covers all fiat currency. Having something against decentralised finance when centralised finance is such a con seems strange aswell.
Here’s the definition of a ponzi scheme from Investor.gov: A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that pays existing investors with funds collected from new investors. Ponzi schemes are named after Charles Ponzi. In the 1920s, Ponzi promised investors a 50% return within a few months for what he claimed was an investment in international mail coupons. Ponzi used funds from new investors to pay fake “returns” to earlier investors.
Crypto is literally exactly that but with electronic payments. That’s it, there is no service, there is no asset, there is no ownership without access, there is no value outside YOUR ability to resell it at a profit. THAT is a PONZI SCHEME. There’s no commodity to be gained like a stock, no institutional backing with fucking guns like a fiat currency. If you made money using crypto, cool, I congratulate you.
Regardless of whether you are benefiting or not doesn’t stop it from being a scam, and shit I’ll even contend it’s probably more ethical capital accumulation than grenading bank wagons like Stalin did.
Yeah the same as every trade of everything ever. New investors pay the ones selling. I’m fully aware of the terms origins.
Commodity definition “a raw material or primary agricultural product that can be bought and sold, such as copper or coffee”
So your Microsoft stock buys commodities does it?
This just shows you don’t understand crypto because many offer services. From logistics to inventory to banking to retail to so much more. You just don’t know enough to make a judgement so you just repeat the nonsense you’ve heard.
Alright fine, you win. I obviously can’t win with some one who thinks all modes of trade are ponzi schemes.
You’re right, I didn’t mean commodity, I meant ownership, thanks for pointing that out.
What services are offered? Please give me examples, because the kinds of services I have seen advertised are all specifically only services because the crypto market exists in the first place, self servicing. Like acting as a 1 to 1 currency with stable coins, that still fail. Or coins that give you some kind of game asset that wouldn’t existed if the system wasn’t there in the first place. And honestly give me examples, I asked for a book or something to reference and it was totally ignored. I want to actually engage you on this, I don’t really give a shit if I’m wrong. I don’t have any crypto, I was interested in it and I read white papers for bitcoin and eth back in the day, and did some purchases and was utterly unconvinced, but please I insist actually give me a reference for me to address.