we live in hell
I don’t even understand the pitch? you have the disc playing, in your hands, your ownership, no buffering, no subscription required. and they’re saying…hey do you want a worse experience?
Protip: Do not connect your TV to the Internet.
I ended up giving up and just putting a Linux PC attached to my TV as a media center. I host plex on it.
This is the way (Jellyfin here)
Of use jellyfin, but I have too many friends with only consoles that rely on my server. Sigh
I don’t see how this is giving up though. Been doing this to close to two decades in one form of another and I wouldn’t consider any other way. Except kodi instead of plexus here.
I mean, steam made it work with games, you telling me that 6-7 of these giant media companies can’t get it to work for video? The giving up part is that you have to embrace piracy (again?) to get to acceptable levels of service per dollar
Until Plex gets unbearable as well. They have been getting a lot shittier lately.
Other server software are available of course. The concept stays the same though. Very much recommend doing this. I’m halfway there, running Plex on my desktop PC and watching on my TV and other devices at home. Very comfortable setup. But I wish I had a small computer like a Pi or something, and a NAS to hold my drives. That way my desktop PC could rest.
They hit my threshold of shittiness some years back and I’ve been enjoying Jellyfin ever since. It’s a much better alternative for most!
Plex is a great example of how proprietary software will inevitably become exploitative, and only purely Free Software systems can ever be trustworthy in the long term.
I still get Roku recommendations on plex content from my Apple TV. They are doing content recognition off of the hdmi input
I use a dumb tv. Old 1080I tube tv.
Uff between ads and interlaced content?? I’d still try to find a dumb 1080p…
Interlacing only sucks on progressive TVs because they have to interpolate and scale the Missing information causing artifacting, watching interlaced content on an interlaced television is actually unnoticeable from a progressive display in my opinion, perhaps less sharp, but still.
Ok
Unhook your TV from the internet, it does not need the ability to talk to anyone on the planet just to show an HDMI input to you.
or just get a cheap-ass android box (like xiaomi or google)
Protip: destroy your ‘smart’ TV.
You go ahead and destroy something that cost you hundreds of dollars. Be it a TV or cans of Bud Light, I’m not going to destroy something I already got out of some need for a moral victory.
I hate ‘smart’ TVs. I wish they didn’t exist. But telling someone to destroy the one they already had- meaning that if they want to watch TV, they’ll just have to buy another- doesn’t really make much sense to me.
That sounds actually reasonable, but I’m not taking any advice from a flying squid.
What? Am i supposed to watch tv? Hell nah
Who said that? There are lots of streaming devices you can connect to your display, from game consoles to streaming boxes like Apple TV, Nvidia shield, Android box or if you really want to tinker a PC connected to the TV. The point is, don’t connect the TV itself to the internet as it has the most access to the whole viewing experience to drop ads on you.
Why this escapes so many people on Lemmy is beyond me
What brand? so I know NOT to buy it
I believe it’s Roku. That purple symbol in the bottom right is on the remote as well.
Very budget so this doesn’t surprise me.
Also beneath the purple asterisk is the words “Roku TV” in grey on the bezel
Fuck Roku. Don’t buy these. They shove ads down your throat constantly, and they proactively, aggressively stop methods of circumvention.
Wtf I thought roku TV were one of the good ones. I use a Roku thing that you plug in and I haven’t seen this yet.
The good ones go bad eventually :(
The poster really needs to just turn off the Smart TV experience.
The Roku box was one of the good ones… about ten years ago. Though maybe this is just a TV thing. TIL Roku makes actual screens.
In the past few years especially, I’ve seen so many unshakable “good ones” go bad. Some, in the worst possible way.
My Sharp TV runs Roku software. Suffice it to say I do not have it web connected and use an android box instead
No. No, they are not one of the good ones.
Name and shame!
It’s literally on the screen….
It says Roku TV
But not exactly obvious. Don’t be a jerk.
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See the problem is that you let a display device connect to the internet
No, the fault is with the people who make the TV. It’s not the customers fault that other people are evil.
It’s kinda both. Like, if I walk up to someone on the street who says they’re gonna stab me, and I get stabbed, the fault is obviously on them for stabbing me, but at the same time I got exactly what he said I’d get
My TV is connected to the Internet and doesn’t do this. There’s a setting to turn it off.
Mine doesn’t have anything like this and is connected to the internet, no settings to change either. LG Oled
I have an LG OLED too. There’s a setting for recommended content, or something like that. I turned anything off that looked like it meant ads or tracking.
Anytime you see the word “smart” in the name of the product, remember to mentally replace the word “smart” with “tracking”.
“Ad enabled”
Same with IoT
The S in IoT stands for security, and the P stands for privacy.
😂😂😂
This is called Automatic Content Recognition and it can be disabled in the settings, highly recommend doing that. It should have asked you whether you wanted it enabled when you set up the TV, as it’s legally required to be opt-in in the US opposed to opt-out. Since you’re using a Roku Smart TV, it specifically is taking two full resolution “video snapshots” every second.
"To disable ACR on a Roku TV, the privacy policy says to “visit your Roku TV’s Settings menu (Settings > Privacy > Smart TV Experience) and de-select 'Use Info from TV Inputs.”
'Use Info from TV Inputs.”
Well that is an incredibly misleading name that sounds like something I would want to keep enabled.
Since you’re using a Roku Smart TV, it specifically is taking two full resolution “video snapshots” every second.
“Got a data cap? Ha ha, fuck you.” – Roku
I haven’t done any research into what’s actually being transmitted, but I assume ACR feeds the snapshots into an ASIC that does something akin to perceptual hashing, then sends a chain of hashes collected over something like a 2-4sec window to an edge server for matching. So perhaps around 24kbps is actually being transmitted.
Since you’re using a Roku Smart TV
That link also works for other TV brands. Just scroll to the top of the article to find your TV section.
Where I live, it’s usual practice to get the vendor to send a team to your house to do the unboxing and installation of expensive TVs so it’s easier to deal with doa products and whatnot. When the guys came in to set up my LG oled, I watched in horror as they speed ran the setup wizard, checking all the boxes and giving my consent to every single tracking feature without even telling me anything. I had to go back and redo everything once they’d fucked off.
Part of me can’t believe that I’m saying this, but I really hope you filed a complaint just so the installation service provider can be informed that this is an issue and hopefully advise the installers that they should always seek customer input on that kind of thing, it shouldn’t add much time to the installation.
I get that they’re just trying to get it done quickly, but customer service is paramount.
They’re taking pictures of what you’re watching on the screen and sending it to random 3rd party data collectors to analyze and then harass you with ads.
Or just reading the file name on the DVD lol
Sure but this is actually Automatic Content Recognition, specifically Roku’s video ACR that takes snapshots twice a second.
Sure, but they do take snaps of the screen and send it to advertisers. Almost all “smart” TVs do this.
Only if the DVD player is built into the tv
And then someone gets the idea to find a way to play a VHS instead and be like “Let’s see you read that, you fucking spying idiots!”
This is why my TV does not have internet access.
I really don’t get why you would allow your tv Internet access anyways. A huge number of them carry tons of spyware that not only is on the TV but creates backdoors into your network.
Source on backdoors?
https://www.techfocus24.com/tcl-smart-tvs-may-have-chinese-backdoor-research/
I have a TCL even, but it’s not allowed on my wifi network at all. Have its Mac addy blocked, all my smart TVs are blocked. Wish they sold more non smart TV’s these days.
It seems like these are standard vulnerabilities that were patched. Happens all the time, especially with open source packages like Android
Some TVs automatically latch on to any open network they can find, to do their connected thing, even if you don’t specifically give them access to your wifi.
Your wifi shouldn’t be open anyways, hell I live in the middle of nowhere and my Wi-Fi network is locked.
I think you missed the point. It isn’t about your network or what good security practices are, it’s about what the TV does or is trying to do if you don’t connect it to your wifi. Open networks are out there whether we like it or not and some TVs will try to use them to call home.
I gave away my tv to a friend in need. That was the best thing I did for the both of us.
I like the way 2000s tvs did it, an ethernet cable for any possible firmware updates needed, and an sd card/usb port for media viewing.
Even if you must own a smart TV (because it’s impossible to buy a large-ish TV anymore that isn’t), I see no reason to actually connect it to any network. But! I notice recent models will bitch at you on every single power on if you leave them disconnected. So you’re not even safe from being annoyed then.
Some people get big computer monitors instead of a TV, because of shit like this.
That’s the route I took. I recently bought a 48" 4K monitor, hooked a mini PC up to it, and now I stream my movie and TV show collection through Plex. I still have Internet access on my “TV,” but I’m in control of what pops up (I block all ads on my home network). I just use a small wireless keyboard and mouse instead of a remote.
I haven’t actually owned a TV since about 2008. I have better media options through computers, and the technology just keeps getting better. Cable and public access television are a pain because you’re constantly bombarded with ads. With my own computer, I can circumvent ads and get a solid viewing experience.
I went the other way. My 75" TV is my PC monitor.
I fucking love it.
Where am I gonna get an 85" monitor for under $1k?
Under the heading: “Digital Signage Display”
For under $1,000?
I did a projector. Pretty close in price and I have a very modest, but serviceable 135" screen and no ads.
If I found out a TV required internet access to function, I’d return it to wherever I bought it next day.
Luckily I have a old-ish flatscreen that doesn’t require internet but does have a netflix and other channels I can setup if I want. The Netflix client is so old it won’t connect to their servers any more. That’s OK. My Roku still works.
I have yet to see one that won’t eventually let you use it as a dumb display after you dismiss one (or more) nags first. But I’m sure that’s coming eventually. The worst offender I found yet is the “cheap” Black Friday sale Amazon Fire TV my boss got to use as a security monitor in one of our satellite locations. That fucking thing won’t even show a picture until you dismiss its network nag, and then its sign-in-with-Amazon nag. At least I found you can disable the Amazon account nag in the options. The network connection one you can’t.
We’ve just resolved never to turn it off. You can’t dismiss the nag screen with the bezel buttons, either. You have to use the remote, so that’s now permanently double-stick taped to the desk the TV is on.
Next time he’ll just buy a fucking computer monitor like I told him to.
The TVs I’ve seen that do this have been smart enough to not get naggy about a lack of Internet until 30+ days after first power on. Then you get popups or autoplay videos begging you to connect it.
My Hisense has been pretty decent, surprisingly. But for my next TV I’m honestly thinking of going with a commercial display.
Right after you can’t return it anymore?? Evil
I bought a 65" HiSense last month. I was psyched the first time I set it up, and it gave me the option to configure it as a dumb TV without the Android TV experience or a network connection.
I’m tempted to do a master reset on mine to see if I got that option. I have the Roku edition and I know that I can specify what source it defaults to on power on. I can also turn off content recognition, which is what’s going on in OP’s case. But using it as just a dumb TV would be awesome.
Theres definitely a setting for turning off content recognition… but… even if I say “no”, I don’t trust my dogs not to eat food I leave within reach.
These companies want the data, they profit from the data, they probably won’t get caught if they take the data, and even if they do they won’t get punished, and even if they do it’ll still be worth it. You have to turn off the network or block the traffic to be sure.
Yeah, that’s why I’ve come to just pay the premium for professional displays instead of consumer TVs.
How much more is it?
That’s a great way to go. There are also still some budget options (Sceptre comes to mind) that don’t have any smart features in some models. My buddy just picked one up.
It’s an absolutely terrible TV, but for his use case it’s perfect. He’s using it as a karaoke monitor for parties at his house. It’s mounted in a covered patio and is dumb as hell.
Wonder how much an 83" OLED would cost me for a premium professional display.
This article is a year old, but it’s still possible to buy dumb tvs.
Thankfully mine (about two yrs old now) only whined for the first couple weeks then gave up on me.
Now the only issue I have is the time it takes for android to boot. It’s like having to wait for your tv to warm up all over again except without the high pitched noise old tv sets had.
I have mine connected so I can control it from Home Assistant. It’s blocked from WAN though.
I agree with you for the most part that there’s no reason to connect them to the internet, however:
Most modern TVs have Bluetooth and WiFi radios, therefore they’re never truly isolated, and consequently that means if there’s a security flaw, it can potentially be exploited without physical access.
Now your priorities (and frankly, hardware) will obviously differ from mine, but that risk alone is enough of a reason for me to connect things up in order to receive software updates. Of course, the privilege of getting software updates for your telly is not ubiquitous, but most manufacturers can issue updates if there is a good enough reason to do so
If its never been connected to the internet…wtf are they gonna do if they hack it? what are they going to get? it will have no credit card information, no personal information of any kind.
They could connect it to the Internet, I guess.
The problem is that because the hardware is there, a determined person with physical access can change the settings to join a network you don’t control.
Ideally, you can open the TV and remove the wifi modules but I suspect that might be beyond the skills of most TV owners.
Tbh, I stopped owning a TV since college. I watch everything on my computer or phone now.
Wait…so the fear here is that they will take my tv, that i don’t have connected to the internet and…connect it to a network i don’t have? Whats the point of going through that trouble? Whats the gain?
Connectivity!
There’s microphones and even cameras in many of these TVs.
Those radios may have a flaw that allows someone to connect to them without direct physical access, wardriving is a similar idea. Particularly the Bluetooth stack, since modern TVs often use Bluetooth for their remotes, so it’s always going to be powered and active.
Then you’ve got to remember a lot of TVs have shit like cameras and mics now days. Even without that, if an attacker can take control of something with a WiFi radio, it can become a jumping point to exploit other devices near your TV. I mean it doesn’t even need to be an exploit, e.g. if your phone disappears from WiFi range, maybe you’ve gone out—that’s a good time to rob you.
Sure it’s all pretty unlikely, but it’s a non zero threat. Particularly when you consider that TV OS software is often like swiss cheese when it comes to security.
Another option for the even more security-minded is to physically disable the radios.
I think newish tvs offer advanced image quality features like HDR and Dolby Vision through their own apps rather than through web browser; if you don’t have a new generation console in your house and wanna enjoy your new TV full capabilities you will need to connect the damn thing to the internet
Wait, what? I’m thinking about getting the LG C2/3, and wasn’t going to connect it to the internet.
Guess I’ll have to get myself a PiHole and figure out how to block tracking.
I have an LG C3 and that thing is amazing; the issue with HDR/Dolby Vision/etc is not because LG, but rather that you need a system that has an app that supports those capabilities, like if you have a subscription to Apple TV and don’t wanna connect your TV to the internet you need an Nvidia Shield/Apple TV/PS5/Xbox series X because just a HTPC won’t do it because the web browsing app doesn’t offers HDR and the Apple TV Windows app is trash
Ok, so I won’t lose any HDR/other image settings with a PS5 and Google TV?
And this is why we buy dumb TVs
Just unplug it from the internet
That won’t be the solution forever. They’ll put an always online requirement soon.
Commercial signage displays it is then.
Don’t by a tv, buy a monitor
Yes! got any recommendations because people are searching for dumb tvs and can’t seem to find them anywhere.
You probably want commercial displays. They’ll cost a bit more, but they’re also designed to run 24/7 (think the screens they use in menus, signs, etc) so they could probably last forever as a TV.
So you’re saying I need a commerical display to display less commercials?
Do you have a suggestion for one with HDR or that runs a proper refresh rate and response time. There are a few good options for NEC but they’re about 15 grand.
Were it so easy…
All my smart TVs have existed without wifi or connections to the net themselves, only the devices that connect (Nintendo, Playstation, Roku, etc) . It’s easy from that perspective, all depends on what you want and need.
That doesn’t exist apart from very expensive business screens.
Now that is some serious privacy invading.
You like this episode of Futurama. Would you also like to watch this episode of Futurama?
I love when i buy a new bottom bracket from cycling webshop x.
After i finish the payment and move to a different website the ad there is that same bottom bracket again from cycling webshop x.
Do they not understand it’s a waste of space?
It’s the amazon approach. You bought these jeans. Wanna buy them again?
Dumb tv with the latest panel tech is too much to ask for these days too.
Almost every TV is a perfectly good dumb TV when it doesn’t know your wifi password.
Don’t look for TVs, look for PC monitors or industrial displays
Absolutely this. I’m lucky enough to have access to commercial & hospitality displays. Great picture quality and longevity with none of the forced online nonsense.
is there a retailer I can buy gently used ones you know of?
While I agree with you these practices do bring prices down for consumers. I just have the TV off internet and use an AppleTV.
But the prices being so low is exactly what makes people care less about things like privacy, so not great either
The SMART thing to do is to buy a DUMB TV. Pay a little more and get a real TV- you know. A display, with speakers and HDMI inputs. Nothing else.
Sometimes you have to be a bit more pragmatic. I’m not aware of any TV with HDR, Dolby Vision, OLED, etc. that isn’t smart and reasonably priced. Your best bet is to buy a smart TV and block Internet access.
Another thing you can do is visit the selfhosted subs and they can help you out with other things like pihole for blocking ads and intrusive network activity on your home network.
Getting pihole set up may just be my new year’s resolution.
Or just don’t connect the smart TV to the Internet.
Oh wow, a link to a product sold on Amazon. I’ve never seen one of those before
It even says “currently unavailable”!
Even better!
This is what’s up. Buy a small Intel NUC, a USB-C combo Blueray & DVD player, and watch any service / play any content without the ridiculousness.
Spectres are reasonable TVs. Screen tech hasn’t improved drastically for the last few years, and streaming quality hasn’t had any major facelifts outside the frameworks we know and love – don’t let anyone fool you otherwise. Netflix, Hulu, Prime, etc., all stream comparably to one another.
“He says ‘he’s already got one!’”
Underrated answer
Scepters are horrendous pieces of shit.
Got any better options?
I’m particularly a huge fan of LG televisions. Of course that doesn’t help if you’re trying to avoid smart altogether.
Also if you’re going LG… Their televisions are great but don’t touch their fucking home appliances. Ever. I don’t get the discrepancy between the two different parts of the same company. Beautiful televisions but things like they’re washers and dryers are notoriously horrible pieces of shit.
Scepters are horrendous pieces of shit.
YMMV of course, but I’ve owned two Spectres. Rock solid, no problems. Decade later, they’re still going strong. /shrug
Can’t you just not connect it to the Internet?
Not anymore bud
Yes you can. It won’t update and send info anymore
Why the F does it require a captcha to go to an Amazon page? I have no idea what you are trying to show, because I’m not doing that.
And this concludes the enshitification of everything.
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I try and see the world as only half full of shit on most days.
“Automatic content recognition” https://advertising.roku.com/resources/blog/insights-analysis/acr-the-future-of-tv-and-audience-data#! Roku is not the only ones doing it :(
So the only way to opt out of this hell is to kill your internet connection? That sucks!
