Relegated? The iPhone has always had USB 2.0 speeds…
That has been trash for pretty much a decade at this point
I can’t remember the last time I plugged my phone to transfer data.
Okay and? I transferred an album to my phone via USB two days ago. Your experiences are not the same as others’.
I too haven’t plugged my phone in to transfer anything since the 6s, obviously there are people who do like yourself and Apple limiting transfer speeds is ridiculous but the majority of people are basically using the cable for charging, I don’t have data to prove it but anecdotally I’d bet I’m right
They shouldn’t have capped the speeds but I highly doubt this will be an issue that the average person cares about
That’s fine. If you’re using an iPhone you’ll literally get better speed for the last decade by unplugging your phone and doing the exact same thing over WiFi.
That’s not the only reason for fast I/O though. Yeah it’s convenient for a quick transfer/backup of large files but there’s also the ability to use peripherals that require higher rates. USB3 has been around since 2008 so it’s not really unreasonable to expect a modern phone to support a spec that’s over a decade old…
So your argument is unless you have sex no one needs an organ for it?
More to the point USB can be used for so much more than just data transfer. I know Apple hasn’t provided you folk with any option like those and it’s a “revolutionary and brave move” waiting to happen 5-10 years after everyone else… but my phone has HDMI out, USB hub which has keyboard, mouse and external drive connected. You know, you can charge your phone and do work and use your device?
I can plug in one cable into my device (S21 Ultra) which will allow me to charge at 45W and use a desktop interface with a separate mouse, keyboard, and monitor, all at the same time.
Seriously… the number of people plugging their phones in to transfer anything to/from an iPhone is in the single digit percentages, if that.
How can you possibly know that without any extensive research?
I work with Apple products all day and work with people using them every day. I can’t remember when we had someone who actually plugged in their phone to do anything other than charge. My company has been working with iPhone users every day for years so we’re talking thousands of people. I have a pretty good sample size and would say that our work basically amounts to extensive research.
Also, just look at the responses here and otherwise. Even the number of people that still demand a headphone jack is limited to techies and less-than-single-digit percentages.
The downvoted here are insane. Just Android fanboys trying to dunk on iPhones for a reason no iPhone user cares about at all. I agree 100%. No one buying the non-pros plugs in for data transfer anymore.
I know. It’s ok. I have a MagSafe charger on my nightstand and sync everything else to iCloud, Google Drive, and a NAS, depending on the need. There is literally no reason for me to ever plug this thing in.
so very apple to punish it’s own users because they have too many old components they need to use up, but if you’re paying for PRO you get actual 2023 modern USB.
so very, very apple.
Bro what modern it’s USB 3.0 lmao
the adaptor is usb3, the controller interface limits you to usb 2.0 speed. what part of the article was hard to comprehend?
Connector is USB type C, controller inside of it supports USB up to version 2. With USB you have different connectors but all of them are backwards compatible. So yes, Apple put outdated chip in the phone on regular versions so you get only USB 2.0 speeds. Type C is obviously capable of much more than USB 2, power delivery included… which is the part of OP statement. You get modern connector with outdated interface. Next year they will just trickle down Pro hardware to regular phones and call it “upgrade”. That’s what Apple does.
Well, they put last year’s chip in the phone, which does not support USB 3 speeds. If the non Pro iPhone 16 won’t support usb 3, then it’s deliberate kneecapping. Now it’s just unfortunate.
I still find it scummy that you get a year old hardware at current year prices. If the price was not at flagship level, then sure you could justify older chips.
Well, the price isn’t at flagship level. At least not from Apple’s view. You pay less, you get less (which is still en par if not ahead in most regards, compared to the competition)
Simple anchoring effect at work. Price flagship higher, so expensive “cheap” option looks cheaper by comparison. Truth of the matter is, it’s all inflated prices, not only exclusive to Apple.
It’s kind of funny that when they used lightning, they got a pass for failing to keep up with the industry standard that’s over a decode old.
Well, not really. Most people complained for years now about lightning. Not necessarily about the lack of usb 3 speeds but that’s probably because for the vast majority of people, that doesn’t matter
What part of their comment was hard to comprehend?
They’re just saying even the usb 3.0 in the pro model is not modern.
Lately the base model is usually last year’s old pro processors and micro controllers. Next year the base 16 will probably have the faster IO if the trend continues.
Completely agree. No company redesigns all of their products each year. They redesign the top tier and then its shifts downward the next year. GPU, CPU, Motherboard, hell even cars do this. Not all models included Carplay and Android Auto when it launched, just the high end cars did, but now all of them do.
USB IO speed aside, Apple’s phones have gotten to the point where 3 and 4 year old chipsets are still VERY performant. They now have the wiggle room to put more bleeding edge silicon in top tier phones, be ok with smaller yields at first, and scale fabrication over the year.
That all being said, given that everyone was going to been eyeing this USB port, they probably should’ve taken one on the chin and changed the stupid IO speed. Although, the people complaining about this probably aren’t Apple’s core market anyway. So maybe they were right.
Exactly. And the usb controller is built into the chip.
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Did you watch the presentation? They literally showed and said the usb controller was part of the A17 Pro SoC
You’re right. Good catch.
I suspect next year’s base will have a revised version of this year’s processor. The iPhone 15 Pro has an A17 Pro. This is the first A Series chip with a “Pro” label. I don’t expect something “Pro” to make it into the base model.
What will change between the A17 Pro and the A17? Who knows. It might include the upgraded USB controller though.
This is Apple at it again, do bare minimum and charge premium. They left USB2 because it required no work, but they had to put type C because EU regulation. Since USB is backwards compatible, solution is just solder half of the connector, charge premium price and fuck you customers. And they are right, people don’t care. Instead they go defending it like “I don’t need it anyway”, “Am not a pro, I don’t need it”, etc.
Ah, yes last year. Usb 2.0 was invented in, like what, 2001? A shitty phone cpu from 2 years ago is probably at least as powerful as the pentium 4 I had back in the day. Come the fuck on.
Just saying that I wouldn’t be surprised if they were reusing some boards or controllers with limited throughput that their manufacturing plants and fabs were already pumping out. Cook got famous for being an operational efficiency nerd that made sure Apple had very little spare parts and inventory on the books.
But yeah, iPhone physical IO speeds have been slow for a looong time. My guess is that so much of Apple’s install base is syncing over the cloud that it hasn’t been a priority.
The biggest applause at the in-person event was, no lie, for the larger cloud storage plans.
This is why companies like Apple are malicious.
Or because the base iPhone 15 uses last year’s Pro chip which didn’t have a USB3 controller.
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And probably have a separate controller? I’m not very technical at all but I’d assume it’s much easier to fit a separate one on a large surface like the iPad has
Edit: google confirms the iPads have a separate USB3 controller
I had a very quick check and I think iPads use an external chip for USB 3 - and there may just not have been space on the iPhone’s logic board for that. I think you’d have to judge it next year - since the base models seem to be using last year’s pro chips - if the base model doesn’t support 3.1 speeds then, something fishy is happening
There is no A16 iPad (yet?).
A Raspberry Pi from years ago has USB 3.1. Restricting the latest iPhone is just laughable.
More like standard capitalism. The usb c connectors are not slower then the lightning connectors so its not like they made it worse. They simply refused to make it better.
A bit like Nvidia continuing to maken better gpu chips but refusing to have them release with a more VRAM.
If course in a way, all for profit-companies are malicious. Extracting surplus value from workers and such.
So - in your opinion - any company shipping a USB 2 device is ‘malicious’?
You obviously don’t get the point. Educate yourself on Apple and USB-C, please.
You mean the Apple that provided more than 20% of the engineering force that developed USBC?
Or the Apple that released the first USBC laptop to market?
That Apple?
Or the apple that fought against USB-C for their phones since basically forever and now implemented it with USB 2? Yes, this one.
It doesn’t sound like you actually have a rebuttal.
Apple’s base model hardware usually uses last year’s pro chipsets. They’ve been doing this for a bit now.
If the trend continues, next year the base model will get all the newer CPUs, micro controllers, etc.
If the aim of a company is to maximize profits then every company in Apple’s stead would do the same thing. Not defending it but that’s the world we created.
It does feel kind of spiteful. But honestly, it is surprisingly difficult to find USB 3 USB-C cables anyway. Most of them are USB 2 unless you spring for Thunderbolt cables.
No they’re not? At least when I check amazon or any other online retailer, USB-C cables are almost always USB 3.0 or higher. Only the ultra cheap ones are not.
We’re talking USB-C to USB-C right?
Do you have links for some of the ones you looked at? Because I checked a few Anker and Apple cables and they were all USB 2.0.
It does seem to be easier to get USB 3 Type A to type C cables, but not C to C.
There’s nothing more spiteful than not buying either of them
Really apple? And they did all that mother nature bullshit with octavia spencer while it was europe who forced them to use a universal connector and stop polluting the world with useless pathetic cables
The only people who need the USB 3 transfer speeds are going to be Pro users. For everyone else, it doesn’t matter.
What? Do you realize how insanely slow USB 2 is? Good luck transferring even a tiny ass video. I don’t think you need to be a pro user to want to transfer some media from your phone and not take all day…
Most people using Apple devices don’t transfer media via cord anymore. The average user only uses the cloud for those things.
I’ve had an iPhone for the last 10 years and can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve needed to use a cable instead of iCloud/Dropbox/other file share service.
This stuff transfers over WiFi quickly. I don’t think 99.9% of iPhone owners have even plugged a phone into a computer in the last 10 years.
I’ll go and shoot 30gb of photos and within a half hour of uploading them they’re synced to iCloud.
Shit, the only place I even plug my phone into now is my car because I was too dumb to wait a few months for the refresh that came with wireless CarPlay.
I use MagSafe at home for all of my charging, and airdrop/airplay for pretty much everything else that isn’t synced to iCloud.
Get yourself a wired to wireless CarPlay adapter.
I’ve thought about it. I haven’t decided how long I’m keeping this car though. The practical mind in me says keep it until the wheels fall off.
The enthusiast in me really wants a dark horse Mustang though lol.
They are like $60 though
And wired CarPlay works for me. Wireless would be nice but it’s not a necessity for me, especially given that that dongle would be useless to me if I do change cars here soon anyway.
I’ve looked around at the wireless CarPlay adapters, the consensus seems to be that to get one without any significant latency and operates as close to native wireless CarPlay, it’s gonna be in the $1-200 range too. That’s a decent amount for something I might only use for a few months.
It’s not that slow, how’d you think I transferred stuff off a CompactFlash card with raw files off my DSLR before USB 3.0? I’d regularly dump several GBs worth of files out after a shoot. It’d take a few minutes but it’s not the end of the world.
Why do Pro users need 3 transfer speeds?
Those giant high res videos can really hurt to transfer to your computer to edit.
Photo transfer.
Non pro users don’t need to transfer photos?
The non pro phones don’t have the RAW photo and video that the pro phones do.
RAW takes up a massive amount more space per photo and video than normal compressed images.
Also, I don’t know anyone with an iPhone that doesn’t just automatically back their photos up to iCloud anyway, meaning that all of their non RAW photos and videos are constantly transferred throughout the day to iCloud. The only people I do know that transfer things over cable are the ones that actually use the ProRes and ProRAW photos and video.
This somewhat makes sense in that ra w media is higher volume in terms of data. But lossy compressed images and video can still be high data-volume even if they are not raw.
The aspect that is missing from this discussion is how much it would actually cost Apple to include high wired data transfer speeds in non pro models and whether non pro models cost enough to justify including this feature even if a small fraction of users use it.
As an addendum I will share my opinion that even pro model users are not gonna use wired transfer 99.99% of the time. I feel Apple is doing this to fabricate a separation between pro and non-pro models plus boosting their bottom line. Sadly there are a bunch of people in this thread that are uncritically defending a trillion dollar corporation for reasons I cannot fathom. This is not really a topic that I’m passionate about so I’m not gonna engage in this any further.
It will likely come to the non pro here in a couple of years at most.
The iPads that have thunderbolt and usb3 use a separate physical usb controller for those speeds. The iPhone doesn’t have the space for that so they handle on the chip itself.
The non pro 15 is using the A16 from last year’s pro model that only supports usb 2. The pro this year has the A17 pro chip that supports it.
I suspect that next year when we get the rumored “ultra” iPhone, it will have an even beefier A18 Pro chip that will support thunderbolt 4 like the iPad Pro does with 40 gig, and the non pro iPhone will get the A17 which will handle base usb3 speed like the iPad Air does.
Lmao at people justifying cunt culture.
People connect their phone to a computer with a wire?
iPhone strange speeds are >1GB/s, or >8 Gbit/s. WiFi is nowhere close in practice, but USB 3.0 is (recent versions are much faster).
What kind of a pro is taking photos using an iPhone?
A procrastinator.
It’s the same guy at the construction site using his phone as a bubble level.
If they use their phone for it’s internet connection and need to send large amounts of data, like after a photo shoot.
The fact that the Pro (or any device) supports a newer USB protocol doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be able to take advantage of the full speed. It might just be as slow as the non Pro with USB 2.0.
iPhone 15 Pro tech specs page: “USB 3 (up to 10Gb/s)” with a footnote that says “USB 3 cable with 10Gb/s speed required.”
A regular need for high-speed data transfers is legitimately a “pro” use case. You need the Pro model and you need to buy a thick, stiff high-speed cable.
I’m pretty certain that the USB IF decided to use the max possible Gbps as the cable rating, rather than the mess that was
USB 3.0 USB 3.1 USB 3.1 (Gen 1) USB 3.1 (Gen 2) …
So it’s more likely apple are just being specific in the type of cable you need.
The pro can stream a 4k60 ProRes video to an external drive via the usbc port. Idk what kind of bandwidth that uses. But should give some clue as to the actual speed capable with the port.
Also, onboard storage is limited to 4k30 ProRes, possibly indicating the speed of built in storage.
I love how these articles happen and are posted and everyone flames at apple.
This isn’t that different than the Galaxy note 20 not having ultra wide band but the Ultra version does.
All companies do this, otherwise why have different tiers or different models.
Don’t get me wrong, I am thrilled they are finally using USB-C. I enjoyed the lightning when if first came out. The only cord at the time you could plug in and there was no up or down, it just want in no matter what orientation. Apple just wanted to charge everyone to use it and they screwed up with that. Now there is a full standard for every device, this is good.
Apple fan boys and Android fan boys need to chill out. It’s just a phone, not an allegiance.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare UWB and USB 2.
One is already an old ass standard. I don’t even know what devices aren’t USB 3 anymore. You actively have to go out of your way to be a dick and downgrade your phone to USB 2.0
Not to mention the price difference is literally negligible.
Apple is just being assholes here. They already downgrade the non pro by removing cameras and whatnot. Touching the USB speed is a special kind of fuck you.
The processor in de iPhone 15 doesn’t support 3.0 speeds. The one in de pro (different proc) does. The cable of the pro doesn’t support 3.0 speeds. But neither do the cables that come with other brand phones.
Companies are dicks. Or something…
They didn’t downgrade anything…
iPhones have the USB controller as part of the SoC. Not a separate controller like the iPads or laptops. They don’t have the space for it.
The non pro this year is using last years pro chip which didn’t have a USB 3 controller on it. For the non pro they are repinning the port to USB c to repurpose the controller on the chip. But they physically cant add USB 3 to it.
They also never removed cameras from the non pro model either. Idk where you pulled that from. The XS and XS Max both only had two cameras, and when they went to the iPhone/iPhone Pro model with the 11, the non pro still had two and they added a third for the pro.
At apple scale I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that giving everyone the USB 3 chip would reduce overall cost, or that apple is doing the crippling in software or firmware.
I agree the comparison between the two in terms of use is not correct or fair even. It was more of a comparison of the chips being included on the phone. I clearly did not do a good job explaining that. I assumed most people would have understood that the A17 pro chip is what is the upgrade and is the controller for the USB vs the A16 that is last years model.
In a computer the price may be negligible but in a phone is the entire architecture of the chip so its not negligible. I don’t think they are being assholes as much as not spending shit tons of money to redesign and manufacture new processors for the phone when they have old stock that can be used.
Its a similar model that a lot of companies do, take last years best chip and put it in this years second tier device. I am not saying its great for consumers I am just saying its what is done. Not upgrading a chip is not the same as downgrading it.
USB 3 actually has flaws that make some devices functionally useless with USB 3 devices around.
USB 3 notoriously emits noise in the 2.4ghz radio spectrum, requiring extra precautions and development cost in order to reduce the effect.
This is often why 2.4ghz mouse and keyboards specifically require USB 2.0 connections.
I’m not saying that’s why Apple did it, but it isn’t a solved problem in the least and USB isn’t just a no-thought upgrade.
This isn’t that different than the Galaxy note 20 not having ultra wide band but the Ultra version does.
Are we considering that UWB is as prominent as USB and you’ll be using it almost daily with a multitude of devices?
No, that’s a fair point. The Ultra Wide Band is not the same in terms of use and known like USB is. My comparison was meant to be of the chips on the phone. People are arguing that apple is “downgrading” to USB 2.0 but in reality they just aren’t upgrading the A16 chip that is the USB controller. This is similar to the Galaxy Note 20 not having the upgraded chip like the Galaxy Note 20 Ultra. There may be other comparisons that would be more accurate but I remembered this one specifically when I was looking to upgrade Galaxy.
I get the point you’re trying to make, and while it’s not a 1:1 correlation, some of the responses you’re getting indicate that non-Apple users can be just as fervent in their views as what would be called “fanboys”.
I would like to think there is some middle ground here, with Apple having to modify their production timelines to comply with EU mandates, but still keeping in line with past hardware releases. That is to say - yes it sucks that non-Pro models will not have all the latest features, but this is pretty much consistent with the past few production releases.
Exactly I can’t remember the last time I transferred anything to my phone via a cable. Just nice to have one cord for charging.
Good thing you represent everyone in this case then.
UWB is 2019 technology which has a very very limited use and even more limited range. USB 2.0 predates iPhones by 4 years and USB3.0 is at this point 15 years old. You’ve been sold polished turd at premium prices and everyone is now stuck with their mouths full defending the move when it reality it’s last years pro hardware shoved into this year’s “new” device with USB type C hacked in to avoid EU ban.
This has nothing to do with when people last transferred files from their devices or what you like or what you think everyone else will need. This is the case of Apple selling you wheelbarrow at the price of a car and people saying it goes fast downhill and they never wanted to go uphill anyway.
My Nothing Phone 1 is USB 2.0
Apple gonna Apple.
Are they really this spiteful? Wow
So, how do you sell this to a regular user? We’re probably getting new phones in this round and I want the Pro but still trying to sell that choice. My kid’s Mom has never used the data connector so how can I sell her on that as one of the features she wants?
Note on our weird situation but we have two teens and our pattern is to buy new, and give our 2-4 year old phones to the kids. For this to work, we really need to have identical phone models
I feel like not many people actually use the data port on their phones anymore, I know I haven’t used my android USB port for anything other than fast charging for I feel like 10 years. Do you even use the data connector on your phone?
I use it. I plug my phone into a dock and use it in desktop mode on occasion. I actually have an old phone running an FTP server with an external hard drive connected.
Guess you’ll have to change bubble colors.
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I know it sounds awful but on the other hand Linus explains why it’s like that in this video https://youtu.be/7KuLMe6KSVQ?si=DAdNH3JlZ4HShIYZ
Not trying to justify it, just it’s good to know why.
Frankly, who even uses the USB port on their phone for data transfers unless it’s an emergency? I just stream media from my NAS using Navidrome and Jellyfin, use Syncthing to back up my photos and sync files I need, and mount the SMB shares I need to access. The eMMC and SD cards are slower than USB 3 speeds, anyway. Most SD cards don’t even max out USB 2.
The only sensible real life use case for USB 3 for phones would be external monitors.
Why would any average person use a usb cable for data transfer when they can just use this specialist equipment that takes more know-how than the average user has to not only spec but build and configure too. Something that most people have never even heard of. People that in most cases barely know how to use their phones or a computer.
Search me… i cant think of any reason whatsoever for that.
People must be crazy.
who even uses the USB port on their phone for data transfers
If far easier to manage files on the phone, be it upload/download/move/delete with a computer than it is fiddling with whatever shitty file manager on the phone.
I just stream media from my NAS using Navidrome and Jellyfin, use Syncthing to back up my photos and sync files
Going to venture a large portion of mobile device users don’t use any of that, or know what any of that is.
What I don’t get, is why you’re being an apologist for Apple?
What I don’t get, is why you’re being an apologist for Apple?
I fucking hate Apple, their walled garden and questionable engineering practices. But USB port speed is the last of the reasons to hate them. I really don’t give a shit about whether the USB-C port on my phone is USB 2 or 3 or whatever. Be it “normies” or “techies”, I can’t recall anyone in my social circle who uses the port on the phone for anything other than charging. Cloud storage, whether self-hosted or by some big company, is the norm and way more convenient. Especially considering that properly set up, everything is backed up and synced in real time automagically.
I never understood why some people take one comment of “I don’t agree with that criticism” and think you are some diehard fanboy? I don’t like Apple, I don’t like Tesla or Elon Musk, but sometimes I disagree with some criticism they get and basically every single time someone thinks I must be a loyal fan.
I’m sure there are those who will or could make great use of USB3 speeds, but I think like 99% of the users won’t notice the difference because they just don’t use it. I know I’ve never used USB for data transfer in my last couple Android phones, I only use it for charging and even that is greatly reduced since I mainly use wireless charging now.
Transferring large amounts of 4K ProRes video off the phone and onto a computer. But someone who’s seriously doing that is buying the Pro anyways and that’s faster
IPhone doesn’t have a sd card and the internal storage is decently fast nvme.
Well, not an iPhone user myself, but I use the port because it just gets to be straightforward.
I can appreciate the self hosting of Jellyfin, but then I’m at a place in the mountains without adequate cell signal nor other decent internet. One day I was doing the Jellyfin thing then of course my music stops. Turns out there was an outage near my home.
It dawned on me that I went through a lot of trouble to have my media remotely accessible, when plugging into USB let me just dump the files and the on-device media players were really good at handling it. Besides, the latency on seeking the media was sooooo much better than streaming it (the streaming seek latency isn’t bad, but it isn’t instant either).
Fair point about perhaps not needing USB 3 speeds, but USB 3 has been a thing for 14 years now. Phones that cost half as much as the iPhone 15 toss in USB 3 speeds without a thought. Sure, there are budget Android type-c that only have 2.0, but any phone that costs anywhere near as much as the iPhone seems to have USB 3 speeds on the port.
