We’ve seen Obama drone kill kids at weddings in Pakistan. We have seen this circus before.
Yes! Found one!
NO PWEASE DON’T BRING UP THE WAR CRIMES I HAVE NO TRUE MORAL GROUND TO ARGUE AGAINST IT PWEASE.
You either get Blue Peter Theil puppet or Red Peter Theil Puppet. The Money Behind Hakeem Jeffries
Policies are a spectrum. We do need to remain mindful of the similarities and the differences between red and blue. If there are overlapping similarities that we don’t like, we speak out, or not.
I do feel like we’ve been here before though, when Obama and HOPE won so hard that there’d never be a Republican POTUS again, and then he conducted imperial BAU for eight years.
And we’ll be here again, because people are morons that don’t learn from their mistakes.
I have seen almost non-stop celebration today, acting as if Trump was done, Fascism was over, White Supremacy was gone, and that all has returned to right and good in the world.
These elected officials arent even sworn in yet. and wont be sworn in… till january, and idiots are celebrating like jobs done don’t have to worry about it anymore.
We have a handful of new democrats elected. We have a ton of old democrats that have no compunctions about siding with Republicans and letting Republican shit go through in exchange for that AIPAC/Big Business money. Just cause a lot of the seating chart is blue doesnt mean blue business will be done, nor does it mean red business will be stopped.
This shit isnt the fuck over. The shit is only just about to begin to get started.
2 things about Obama.
- He had no idea what he was doing. He was chosen because he had no experience and would not expect to know how to rock the boat much less try. He was also naive and thought other people could be trusted to at least not hurt themselves in their attempts to hurt everyone else.
- He only had a Democratic majority for just a handful of months. Bullshit lawsuits kept him from having the majority that had been voted in for almost a year. When he finally got a majority he got the ACA passed, but even then he didn’t have enough of a majority to push it through without watering it down to near useless.
I think most of us were pretty disappointed that Obama didn’t do more, but looking back, it was pretty clear that he was only brought in as the janitor to clean up after the previous cluster fuck.
it was pretty clear that he was only brought in as the janitor to clean up after the previous cluster fuck.
Thats the job expected of every democrat president.
he was only brought in as the janitor to clean up after the previous cluster fuck.
oh I also thought it would be convenient to have him in office if the second great depression came through, so they could just blame the black guy.
I’ll believe in blue wave when the American empire contracts, it recalls its military, closes the global bases and releases everyone from their gulag supermaxxes
or even enforces its own laws consistently
Dems won, that’s good. They have control of the senate which they haven’t had for a while.
So here’s my damper, there was anti-trans legislation passed in blue states and there was an increasing rise of anti-trans rhetoric within the Democrat candidates. I do not want the establishment Dems and their think tanks to get the take away that they won by throwing trans people under the bus.
I’m still going to be critical of Dems, they have a lot to prove and should be spending these next couple months in meetings on how they deal with the fact Trump will veto everything they do. They will have to find a way to circumvent that veto pen or persecute Trump to the fullest extent possible as well as his regime.
So here’s my damper, there was anti-trans legislation passed in blue states and there was an increasing rise of anti-trans rhetoric within the Democrat candidates.
WA state’s bullshit is going to die in the courts. I’m sickened that it passed; looking at the districts - king and two other counties rejected it… but the boondocks voted for it overwhelmingly. you can’t put that on the left, on establishment dems, when it’s the people in the sticks making it happen.
Here’s an article linked from an LGBT+ focused and friendly online publication. It’s not all relegated to just the reactionaries.
is there a link?
I hate saying this but imma be honest with you. They absolutely won because they abandoned trans rights as a talking point. You have no idea how many peoples single issue with not voting democrats was gender affirming care. They hate it and will tell you in the same breath that circumcision is ok. The only reason so many republicans flipped was because of how bad the economy is performing.
I’m not saying to abandon trans rights but I think I speak for the majority when I say that running on policy that affects 1% of the population and angers 50% of the population is stupid. Instead of phrasing it to help trans people, we should focus on expanding healthcare access to ALL citizens. Not just trans people.
So a lot of anti trans would-be-red voters voted blue but still supported their gross views in supporting anti-trans stuff. That tracks.
With the way they’re acting, you’d think that these dudes wanted Republicans to maintain control. Like, I don’t have a lot of faith in democrats to actually get the shit done that they need to, but the defeatism is absolutely absurd.
With the way they’re acting, you’d think that these dudes wanted Republicans to maintain control.
Oh believe me, they do. I’ve literally been told how much more awful Democrats are than Republicans. IIRC, the reasoning behind that was some vague shit about liberals watering down true leftism or something. Like, yeah, one side wants to establish a fascist totalitarian government and has literally set out to murdering foreigners and dissenters with ICE, but hey, your identity politics are more important.
I swear to god the double trauma of COVID and Trump during formative periods of some peoples’ lives made it pathologically impossible for them to take a win for even a day or two. That’s how you burn the fuck out. Don’t rest on your laurels, but making people feel like nothing is ever enough is how you get them to stop showing up.
IMO, you should have higher standards.
We have plenty of wins, built on the hard work of working class Americans door knocking, phone banking, canvassing, signature gathering, etc.
I’ve always been a fan of the color red. Imagine if (let me dream) the republican party falls and the DSA can take red as their color against the establishment dems’ blue. Fighting on the red side would feel good then!
Its much more likely that the DNC would assume the mantle of a fallen republican party, and change their color. They were always only pretend blue anyway.
Gonna need like 50 years to wash the stank off that color. Every time I see a red baseball cap I get alarmed and concerned about a very untrustworthy person I should avoid. Usually it’s just a sports team hat but it never fails to raise my blood pressure.
Mario cosplayers in shambles right now!
Haha somehow in that context it never crosses my mind
I bet Mario would be pro-union
Believe it or not, the colors were reversed or kinda random for a long time actually. Dems were red, GoP blue. Iirc, that didn’t shift until 2000, lol.
Would be more like the UK parties’ colors then.
You’d think that but have a look at hexbear’s midterms containment thread. The way they speak about it internally is different. They are very happy the Republicans lost, they jsut don’t care that it’s the democrats who won.
As “one of those people” you are talking about, we’ve been here before. Yes, it feels awesome to get such a decisive victory over the republicans. I’ve seen this before. Over and over again. The pendulum has swung back to the left. But, just because we voted in a bunch of Dems, hell even a bunch of Socialists, that doesn’t mean they will, or even can, fix the most broken parts of this system. Democrats have enabled and even facilitated some of the worst aspects of what we’re seeing right now from Trump and Republicans. I mean, you yourself even admit it: “I don’t have a lot of faith in democrats to actually get the shit done that they need to”.
The difference is, we know what needs to be done. A really famous guy wrote about it over a 100 years ago. Having Blue majority didn’t improve anybody’s material conditions in the past. Why would it now? Yes, they’re “less bad”, but Dems are still pretty bad. What makes this time different?
I love the outcome of the election. It was a bloodbath. But I’m not deluding myself that wholesale change will ever come from national electeds. Defeatist? Maybe. I’m just tempering my expectations, even from DSA endorsed winners.
this post sums it up best imo. Prove me wrong. Prove all of us MLs and “tAnKiEs” wrong. Prove to us that voting can and does work, that we can materially improve people’s situations without protest.
Don’t get me wrong, I see what you’re saying and I generally agree with your leftist sentiments.
That said, you are incorrect that the Democrats have been totally unsuccessful in improving material conditions for people. I’m with you that it hasn’t nearly been far enough, but they did accomplish significant things for women and black people.
JFK passed the equal pay act. LBJ passed the civil rights act. Clinton passed the violence against women act. These things had an effect that was tangible, even if we need more.
In Texas, my grandmother wasn’t able to have her own bank account without my grandfather signing a permission note until John Connally, a Democrat, passed the Marital Property Act of 1967. My mother never had that problem because a Democrat changed the conditions for women in this country.
Do I want a true left to rise in the United States? Yes. Do I think the Democrats have any hope of fixing capitalism? No. BUT, this victory is sweet, and I’ll be raising a glass to the Democrats today anyway.
JFK passed the equal pay act. LBJ passed the civil rights act.
You’re skipping why those passed when they did. Postwar US was in a red scare, Communism spreading across Europe, fear of uprisings at home, and that fear forced progressive concessions. The one era of capitalism people romanticize is that one, and it was shaped by fear of Communism plus massive grassroots working-class movements. JFK and LBJ didn’t pass those laws out of kindness. Cities were burning, people were organizing at rates this country had never seen, demanding better material conditions.
Clinton passed the violence against women act
This law was very limited and a classic neolib policy. It did not, in fact, dismantle any systems of oppression. It was another concession to the feminist “radicals” of the era.
In Texas, my grandmother wasn’t able to have her own bank account without my grandfather signing a permission note until John Connally, a Democrat, passed the Marital Property Act of 1967. My mother never had that problem because a Democrat changed the conditions for women in this country.
Democrats didn’t do this though. That’s my whole point. Sure they may have signed the law, but the pressure and the framing came from socialists and activists, through fear of revolution, strikes, boycotts. Yours is a standard liberal talking point, and it whitewashes history and erases the struggle that was actually fought for.
Do I want a true left to rise in the United States? Yes. Do I think the Democrats have any hope of fixing capitalism? No. BUT, this victory is sweet, and I’ll be raising a glass to the Democrats today anyway.
On this we agree. Victory was sweet yesterday. I’m mostly celebrating. But we need to continue to organize and fight for what we want. Capitalists and billionaire oligarchs will not just give us what we want out of the kindness of their hearts. That’s simply not how any of this works. Don’t become a “If Harris won we’d be at brunch” kind of person.
Respectfully, stand down, comrade! I’m on your side and not becoming a Kamala brunch enthusiast. I appreciate your opinions on history and thank you for sharing your thoughts.
The fight definitely continues, but a little win feels nice. I can go back to my usual full on class warfare in the morning.
I’m more just shouting at clouds than at you specifically. Cheers! 🥃
roosevelt
The tankies want Trump to win because they think that after he’s destroyed the US, a socialist utopia will rise from the ashes.
A theocratic autocracy will rise from the ashes. Unless you kids have done more prep work that you let on, your not winning the war if it goes hot, and the crazies with stockpiles and organization in place have the advantage over unprepared forum users.
There will be several theocracies arising in various places. And they’ll all be at eternal holy war with each other.
At least some one will keep the ashes warm for us.
No, nobody has said this, lmao.
I’ve seen a lot of hysteria around “tankies” since I started using Lemmy and I gotta say I really don’t get it. Yes, there are people here who are to the left of Democrats. No, that doesn’t make them the enemy, or secretly MAGA or Russian or whatever. They just… disagree with liberals. I see opinions attributed to “everyone from a .ml community” that I’ve never seen from any of the actual users. People gleefully brag about blocking swaths of other users, yet I’ve almost never seen any .ml user actually being as toxic as they get branded. I’m pretty sure I’ve even heard people say that you are a particularly bad one, but I haven’t witnessed it.
Also, lemmy was created by ml’s right? It’s one thing to have very little tolerance for different political opinions, but it’s another thing entirely to literally just be the gray characters from this meme and still somehow think you’re in the right.
People should run their lemmy instance as they want.
The non stop feudposting about what people do in their own instance is ridiculous. Block the instance and move on with your life if you need to. Block me to while youre at it! Who cares?
It seems there is some other agenda at play with those who are on this dumb ass crusade against .ml
I think people generally think of themselves as progressive when they come here, and it might be their first run-in with revolutionary socialists. They get caught between their progressive beliefs, largely around the Bernie/AOC area, and this suddenly new group (to them) of people that despise reformism and the Democrats almost as much as the Republicans. It creates a lot of friction, IMO. And yea, Lemmy was and is made by MLs, which means we have a permanent foothold here.
Have you tried browsing hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml? Lemmy.ml has its own vibe because we don’t really defederate from anyone, but Lemmygrad.ml and Hexbear.net are pretty good examples of what “tankies” are like when we aren’t getting into constant squabbles with liberals. You’ll see tons of queer people, a lot of passionate people, and a lot of normalcy, to be honest.
I like hexbears cute pictures, even if they dont like me. lol
Not a single tankie believes in utopic socialism
Of course not. But it’s what they claim to believe in.
You have a very warped view of what Socialists believe in.
I’m talking specifically about tankies, you know that kind of people who worship the likes of Putin and Xi and root for Hamas and the Houthis.
“tankie” is pejorative term used by fascists and libs for Socialists and Communists. the people who use the term tankie unironically often denounce many or all existing Socialist states (Cuba, China, DPRK, etc) as “authoritarian”.
I repeat: You have a very warped view of what Socialists believe in.
Yeah. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Socialists believe in a real try at social equality. Tankies believe you must murder people or at least ignore large amounts of suffering to force it in one fell swoop.
No?
Lmao show us anybody claiming any of this shit.
This is very incorrect.
I’m not going to lie, as an outsider this always seems to be the case. Could you explain what you actually want and what you could see realistically happening if the fascists won?
Could you explain what you actually want
Simply put: I don’t want billionaires controlling every single aspect of society, as they do now.
If you’d like to read more, I agree with all of this.. I also agree with all of this.
what you could see realistically happening if the fascists won?
Arguably, and I would, the fascists are already in control. Just think of the tech enshittification at the hands of technofascists. Think of the endless wars; how much say in those wars do you truly believe you have? Think of the military budget outspending every single other country combined. We are the most powerful and richest country in the history of this planet … and 50% of americans can’t afford a 1 bedroom apartment. Americans can’t afford groceries. Real wages have been stuck in the 1970s. We are bankrupting ourselves with medical and student debt. Nobody can afford a house. Kids still in cages, guantanamo bay still operating, ICE record funding every year,
How much say do you have at your job? Unions are being squashed and suppressed. Have you attended a pro-gaza rally lately? How did the police treat you?
…I want a better world in which the 99% actually have a say, actually have a better life, and we don’t have 1% of people hoarding all the power and wealth of the world. This IS possible.
Not who you asked, but I want socialism, which requires revolution, which itself requires a mass working class revolutionary party, a militant and class conscious working class, and instability within the capitalist class. The first two are directly actionable through joining socialist orgs like PSL and doing large amounts of outreach, agitation, etc. The latter is out of our control, no matter if the Democrats or Republicans win in elections, and is more a matter of course as capitalism decays.
Fascism isn’t something that can be elected. Fascism is when the capitalist class oversteps the legal boundaries and restricts the civil rights of the country, when bourgeois democracy is replaced with outright direct rule by capital. Republicans winning or losing does not actually increase or decrease the chance of fascism, because fascism is a response to economic conditions and rising socialist organizing outside of the legal system.
This is important, because it means Democrats winning does not stop fascism. Fascism is out of the control of the working class, and can only be prevented by socialism, and stopped once in action by fighting it directly. In either case, mass socialist organizing is both the vaccine and the cure for fascism, depending on the timeline.
I have seen that sentiment directly expressed many times and I’ve seen it implied many times. Still see it despite blocking the shit out of sources of those kinds of opinions. Just today someone said to me “if you don’t think it should be burned down now, what would it take?”
They’ll tell you that they do. I’ve had some tell me that electoralism won’t bring about socialism and things have to get way worse before the people revolt.
Accelerationism is imo the left wing equivalent of the american conservative-christian death cult.
electoralism won’t bring about socialism
Prove this wrong then. It’s never happened.
I’m old enough to remember Blue Waves hitting the rocks of Decorum and Civility and doing fuck all. I’m not getting my hopes up ever again.
And you’re gonna try your best to pass that feeling on
If I keep these thoughts inside they’ll take me to the grippy sock hotel.
Plus you know me. You know this isn’t my best. I’m sorry to disappoint but I’ve been dealing with the bullshit that happens no matter who got elected.
Do I know you? I’ve seen you make reasonable comments and then today multiple doomer ones. I don’t think I know you, but I do think you seem somewhat open to feedback even if you do make excuses.
I make doomer comments all the time
Noted.
U mad?
BLue mAgA
Alright we’ve had numerous impassioned contributions from the community!
Which commenter would you nominate as the most deserving for the Hater of the Thread?
Don’t go hatin’ To try and please me You never let me down before
::reads thread::
::awards OP the “most accurate shitpost” award::
Hate hate hate hate!
I read this in Chris Ray Gun’s voice
Here I come to snap your surfboard in half. There will be no happiness on my watch.
Damn, that’s cold! Tragic to the drown in the same blue wave we hoped for so desperately.
You’re gonna drink so much champagne you’ll be begging me “Stop! Please, sir! We’re tired of champagne! No more!”
If I’m parsing this right… Good? Right after elections is like, the best possible time for critique. Didn’t want to say it yesterday, but fuck blue MAGA the two party system and the rachet effect. There’s no such thing as a good politician, and less bad isn’t enough. Voting is harm reduction, I’m glad we picked methadone over fent but am still looking to get clean.
From how much anger and vitriol liberals give all throughout the time I have been told there’s no point in time to criticize. A lot of shut up and take it lefty bullshit.
It’s a good time to critique the body of work of the current Congress.
For the new electorates it seems fair to wait until…they’ve actually taken office?
Why not just wait until they’ve retired, hindsight is 20/20 after all
Or, hear me out, now that they’ve got the job of representing us it’s the perfect time to call them out, hold them accountable, and try to make sure they actually do so
Dang I’m not nominating you for the Buc Nasty award. Very solid hatin
Thanks, I try ;)
If it weren’t for the “blue maga” mention, I can take this comment seriously and agree with it 98%. Given that every cultlike Democrat that has ever existed wouldn’t outnumber the maga ones who currently live in a single county in Florida, this is a disingenuous term that destroys the credibility of anyone using it.
I genuinely can’t parse your critique, but find it a funny and apt term for a certain type of person. Political merch cash cows and the “forever war but inclusive” corpos they fall in behind. Feels like the Cali governor is the next one they’re propping up, for a more concrete example. “I’m with her” t-shirts while Bernie was getting fucked over is another
I don’t quite believe that you don’t get what you’re doing or what issue I have with the term “blue maga”. It’s obviously meant to compare rabid racist sociopaths to some democrat equivalent. Every trump supporter I’ve conversed with in my life has copped to zero negative facts about trump. Most they’d ever admit is “he doesn’t always hold back” or some shit. Meanwhile I’ve known many Democratic voters. Most of which aren’t even really that knowledgeable, and yet, they were always open to criticism of Democrats. They rarely make excuses for them. I’ve only known 2 people who like Biden and maybe 1 who liked Kamala. Almost universally, Democratic voters would be in favor of prosecuting Democrats who commit crimes. Meanwhile Republicans cover for a known rapist pedophile.
What you’re intentionally doing is pretending there’s anything comparable about the two groups of voters. You know there’s not much there to compare. And because I know you must know this, you have given up your credibility. Pretty simple really.
…one thing I am sure of is that you’re putting words in my mouth, assuming my intentions, and generally being an asshole. I never had any credibility, I’m a random fuckin shitposter like yourself. At least I know it! Really should know better than to engage too, but yes there are absolutely people delusional enough to deny the crimes of their chosen tribe wherever you look and your anecdotal bullshit is exactly the kind of “evidence” that lets them get away with it
Like I said, when you used that term you knew what you were doing and I wouldn’t expect you to drop the pretense now.
Lmao just noticed your claim that I’m the same as a pedophile cover-upper because I accurately conveyed the demeanor of people I’ve known in real life.
I am glad, even proud, to still have no idea what your problem is lol. Enjoy downvoting every reply I’ve been baitied into wasting on you, not feeling the need to reciprocate that is enough of a win for me
You know exactly what my problem is. Both before and after I expanded on it. Contrary to your “you’re a troll just baiting people” claim, you can rest assured this is the last time you will hear back.
I’m surprised it took so long, still can’t believe he got reelected after his first shit term.
He was already the worst President. “No war” my ass
Here I am wondering about a new platform called “blue wave” figuring maybe it’s a bluesky spinoff.
It’s like Blue Chew Gold but for your politics boner.
“I’m very upset about what you said about my coat. I made it outta your mother’s pubic hair.” - Silky Johnston
Now if you’ll excuse me, I gotta go put some water in Buck Nasty’s mama’s dish.
should I wade into 4chan/pol/ to drink in the salt, or is it not worth it to give them the attention and have them scrape me for whatever data might leak out?
EDIT : They’re just blaming jews, but calling them “talmundists”. Also, they adapted the n-word to use against magas, by making it into an m-word and keeping the rest the same
