If they could draw or make music, they wouldn’t need a robot to do it, and they clearly want to but don’t have the skills.
Desired isn’t the same thing as important.
i dont think it does.
because if people wanted to do the arts, they’d do the arts. while schools are expensive, sitting at home and writing lyrics or sketching out drawing isnt.
What using AI does, is let them get adoration from fools and idiots without having to make an effort in lifting a finger.
If you gave me a Star Trek Replicator, I’m gonna be eating all kinds of gourmet shit. It doesnt mean I want to be a world class chef, it just means I’m a lazy fat fuck that wants excess without effort or cost.
Arts in state schools isn’t about mastering a particular medium, it’s about introducing learners to the different forms art can take and giving access to specialised equipment that’s too expensive for them to buy without committing to the art form. Sketching and lyrics writing are fine for some, but others won’t learn they want to learn more about photography, or sculpture, or pottery, or an instrument, or any number of other things if they don’t actually get the opportunity to try it. If more people understood art, AI artists wouldn’t get that adoration in the first place.
Stolen valor
Not sure why you got a downvote (at time of writing this). It’s absolutely the truth that using AI is laziness, not an accessibility tool. It’s unfortunate though. I find its use morally reprehensible and yet can’t help but be charmed by some of the batshit garbage it spits out. It’s definitely a 7-fingered sword.
Up/down votes dont matter anyway, don’t concern yourself with it. They are a root evil and should just be ignored. If lemmy wanted to actually be different, and better, it’d get rid of the damned thing cause all it does is lead to mindless, thoughtless bandwagoning and dopamine addiction directed behavior.
Has nobody considered the angle that slopping is fun? It doesn’t make you an artist, nor an author, nor a musician. But it makes a thing at your direction and you can point at it and say “this vaguely resembles the idea in my brain”. For some people, that’s enough.
(this has been part 4 on my Nuanced Opinions Regarding AI)
It’s still theft. Nobody gave permission for their work to be used as training data.
I agree. Sam Altman and his ilk deserve prison for stealing every intellectual property on the internet (among other crimes).
If people got a proper art education they would know drawing is more fun.
to be fair, if the masses were educated we’d be on track to solve a shitton of our problems with that change alone.
As a completely separate thought, different people can find different things fun. And one person can find multiple things fun. I know I’m not indicative of a typical person, but I’d compare making your own art to Factorio, and prompting images from stable diffusion (or similar) to Cookie Clicker. I’ve put over a thousand hours into Factorio, and I like to think I’m mediocre at it, but that hasn’t stopped me from enjoying games like Cookie Clicker (I say “like Cookie Clicker” because the incremental genre has moved on since then but that’s besides the point).
That’s why the zeitgeist needs more time to settle on the perception of LLMs. It’s a cool toy, but people shouldn’t be getting it in their head that it gives them a shortcut to becoming a professional.
You gotta understand what it’s good for as a tool and realize it’s not going to do your job for you.
The problem is that it’s utility is basically correlated with your skill on a given subject because you can’t reasonably hope to guide it to what you actually want if you aren’t already pretty skilled. Contrarily, the perceived “benefit” or “coolness” it provides you is inversely correlated with your skill but with like 3x the slope of utility.
If you are needing to navigate a pool of text as an expert in a field, it’s obscenely useful and the holes/pitfalls are super evident. The less skilled you are as a user the more magical and beneficial it all looks, which is scary.
Edit I said some of that backwards . More skill more actually useful, less skill the more it seems useful and cool but will screw you up.
the problem is that it’s utility is basically inversely correlated with your skill
I’ve thought this exact thing too, I’m sure many of us have. AI is really you get what you give, literally. If you’re educated, well read, know how to write and interact and think critically and have some technical skill, it can be massively useful.
If you don’t you just get mental masturbation.
Edit:
It’s like, I hate cars. I want them dead, gone, erased.
And I can acknowledge their utility.
Wow. That’s a phenomenal comment. In my human opinion. Very cogent.
I literally havent considered that. Probs should. It was really fun for me for a short while, but I never wanted to share my creations or pass it off as my own.
“Make a tank out of liqorice allsorts but have Big Bird hanging out the top using a stick of liquorice as a cigar” “hahahahaha thats really funny”.
It got boring fast though.
That was my perspective as well. Once that immediate novelty wore off I started to look at people still playing with it and wondering what they’re seeing that I’m not.
But I guess people like different things. Like I hate reality TV shows, but those are plenty popular.
I HATE LLMs
But it can be fun, a little part of the problem specifically for LLMs they are addicting. Image generation version less so unless it’s for porn
But I mean these things are great for shit posts
LLMs are designed to be addictive.
If you set the settings (that should be on by default) it will be more of a tool than something that foeces you to interact with.
Examples:
Don’t let them ask questions if they are not needed. You prompt it not the other way around.
Turn off compliments and ask for more negative feedback.
Make sure it doesn’t pretend to be human with feelings and actual personality.I found these pretty useful rules.
They’re great for shitposts? I thought the point of shitposts was they take no effort. Wouldn’t putting an extra service in the loop just complicate it?
I think that the kinds of people who would find the lying machine addictive would probably also find gambling mechanics in video games addictive. Also regular porn can be addictive to some people as well. I’m not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that these specific issues are not unique to generative ai.
Sir and or madam, I would like to subscribe to Nuanced Opinions Regarding AI facts.
part 1: https://lemmy.world/post/52423516/26039575
part 2: https://lemmy.world/post/52446320/26057464
part 3: https://lemmy.world/post/52700982/26163401
i don’t know how to do lemmy compliant links
I call them no talent ass clowns.
That’s what they are.
It’s also time. People want to create but learning practising. Getting through the “I suck” stage is rough.
Been in mine for several decades now.
I don’t think that stage ever stops for anyone
I keep wanting to get more into music, but can never find the time/motivation to practice my scales.
I also tend to pick an instrument and abandon it every few years. I have nieces and nephews who occasionally get a second hand instrument.
Weirdly, I started to lost my sight a year or so ago, I had already coded a bunch of prototype games but if I can’t read it’s hard to code… might as well do the art side (my vision is like distorted I can still see but not whatever I’m looking directly at, like reading)
I’ve enjoyed the journey. Got a few games out and a Kickstarter brewing to spend time on the artwork.
My eyes let me follow my dreams by forcing me to lose my job 😂
I’m a musician, dudes come up to me like listen to this song I made, and it’s obviously suno…
I call them out on it and they’re like mumble mumble.
People don’t go to RISD to learn to be an artist, they go for the connections.
Apart from graphic design and advertising, art is difficult and risky for billionaires to profit off of. Human artists are notoriously flaky and difficult to work with. This is one reason Larry Ellison bought WB.
Billionaires want public schools to turn out people who are as close to robots as possible. We all know they’d prefer actual robots, but that’s not happening anytime soon, regardless of all the hype. So, public schools drop anything not reliably connected to billionaires profits. They’re thrilled at the prospect of getting rid of human artists.
I think not everyone who wants to be artistic can be. I sort of hear music composition in my head. But despite playing a musical instrument all through college, I could never play anything by ear. And memorizing music was really hard. So if AI could get what I hear in my head out, that would be astounding. It can’t yet, but you get my point. I also have poor fine motor skill, so drawing is out. Even with a computer and mouse it just is too hard. That said, I think what this really says is that people have a desire to consume more art, and they are willing to use AI to get it.
If you had the education, you’d know how to do all the things you say you want to do.
I cannot pick up an Almighty Fan Brushtm (for those people old enough to remember), and paint you an apple. My wife can and so can our daughters.
But, I can design in CAD an injection mold, then machine it all out, then crank out a million of the little bastards.
Why, because my brain isn’t “wired” to think like an artist. But it is wired to think like an engineer and toolmaker.
Anyone, despite disposition, can learn to paint an apple. The idea that art is exclusive to those who can think a certain way is a myth.
Perhaps how I said it wasn’t clear. When I said playing an instrument through college, I meant getting lessons and playing with official school and college bands. I had lots of education. I understand logically how to do the things. But I was unable. It takes more than education to be an artist.
I genuinely disagree.
Making something, regardless of skill level or whether you achieve what idea you had in making it, is what makes an artist. A poor artist or one that’s not the best ever is still a valid artist, right? Then that should apply to you as well.
Hm, I suppose it is a question on semantics then. In the context of the original post, there is art I would like to create, but cannot, and if AI could help me achieve what I envision, that wouldn’t be a bad thing. So I suppose I could ohrase it as, not everyone can be the artist they want to be. In my case, sure, I could compose some music technically. But the massive gap from what is in my head and what would come out would be so frustrating I would not enjoy the hobby. And that is why I don’t do it. So if AI could make it so I would be willing to do it, that would be a good thing.
Eh. I don’t think it says anything at all about their desire to be an artist. I think it says a lot more about their:
- greed (desire to be paid, regardless of what they’re being paid for)
- cheapness (not wanting to pay a proper artist)
- antisocial (as in: counter to the ethos of social collaboration; not as in “I want to be a potato today”) tendencies
- low ethical standards (not caring that the training sets for all of this are built almost exclusively from stolen contracts)
- self aggrandizement / narcissism (claiming aptitude and credit in a domain that you don’t actually have any skill in, but pretending you do anyways)
I don’t think wanting or not wanting to be able to do art is a major aspect of this at all. It’s largely about wanting the money and, sometimes, the recognition, without doing any of the work it normally takes for humans to get to that point of expertise.
lol people down voted you. People be nuts
C’est la vie
Accidental downvoting (esp on mobile) is pretty easy, plus some users downvote posts that are in competition for visibility with their own posts (loser behavior, but it happens).
4 downvotes on a post with 163 upvotes is basically just noise.
I never thought of it in those terms but I can see that being a possibility.
Accidental downvoting (esp on mobile) is pretty easy
Isn’t it? It’s not so uncommon for me to see a post that I had evidently downvoted without noticing.
There’s “skills,” and then there’s innate talent, and then there’s practice. Anyone who embraces AI art clearly doesn’t have the innate talent to recognize it’s crap, and their rabid eagerness to jump on the latest trend implies they probably doesn’t have the patience required for practice either.
Not that music and art classes and exposure aren’t important, but 12 years of mandatory gym classes definitely didn’t turn me into an athlete (if anything, it made me hate physical activity. Maybe if we had gone on hikes instead of playing dodgeball…)
But you know how to play dodgeball. Do you know what composition is?
If not, or even the fact that question is tricky for people, is to illustrate my point. People want to be able to draw, and we aren’t being taught how.
Sure I know how to play dodgeball, and I’ve had many, many gym classes worth of practice, but I was always absolute shit at it. Similarly, you can teach composition (or color theory or whatever other art technique you want), and have your students practice it, but most are never going to be more than just okay at creating art. “People just need to be taught the arts and then they won’t be seduced by the siren song of AI!” assumes that education can overcome innate limitations. I will never be a good athlete, just as most people will never be good artists/musicians/writers. Meanwhile here’s a tool that will produce (what AI users think is) an impressive facsimile of the real thing, and at a fraction of the effort with almost no barrier to entry.
I feel that the idea that only certain magically wired people can be artists is a myth. I also think that our idea that only good artists are valid is some capitalistic nonsense. “Bad” artists are also valid artists, and our attitude around people creating things should change.
Oh bitch please.
Doubt.
You spend so much time using your clock and calculator on your phone you clearly want to be an engineer but don’t have the skills.
If that were true, there would be people saying they are engineers for doing this.
There aren’t.
But there’s people saying they’re artists and musicians for making slop…
That’s actually a really illuminating analogy.
I can’t say I understand what people get out of playing with LLMs, but if they view writing code or drawing pictures like I view using a calculator then that explains a lot of the disconnect between the two camps.
I would 100% let some model draw me up a comic to shitpost without a second thought, and it by no means should be construed to mean that I wish I had chosen art for a career or a major or even a hobby.
Interestinger and interestinger. So you wish you could create the art (or pictures, whatever term you want to use), but the way you do it doesn’t matter, so you just use the LLM because that’s the easiest way to do it?
Would you normally try to soup something up in paint, or just do something else? I mean like before you could generate it with natural language.
Yeah I’ve done some minor photoshop before but that isn’t really the point.
It’s not even that I wish I could do it. Sometimes I think of a stupid meme like the “well yes but actually no” pirate and a picture of Mr Bean and Sean Bean or something and I could let an LLM shit that side by side out instead of using meme generator and like 10 minutes of thought. Or I could just… Not. I actually haven’t ever, but people who say “oh just draw it even if it’s stick figures” are full of shit. If I want to make a comic I’ll just do it who cares how.
Of course there is value in art, but that value doesn’t come in proportion to the huge number of people studying it and it doesn’t come from comics or memes either in my estimation. I don’t/wouldn’t use a language model for those things because I have penis envy, but rather because it’s easy for dicking around. People asking for relationship advice to Claude are also not secretly wishing they had gone to school for a BS in psych.
At the risk of being dismissive, people with liberal arts or art degrees can cool their tits: basically no one is using LLMs because we secretly wish we had gone down that road, and the ones that do… Well… Bless their hearts they are a small and special minority.
Thanks for taking the time to go into it. It seems like people are having this conversation in every community and every friend group and most of the time it’s just people talking past each other.
Arts in school is just a tool to proliferate and transmit cultural values to the next generation to upkeep a certain base line in the population. Can’t change my mind (but im open to constructive criticism and input)
Here’s how to draw in two point perspective kids!
Sit fuming in the back fucking capitalist pigs trying to shove America down my throat fuck you Mrs. Dotterson I’m too woke to learn how to draw
