I’ve always wondered about the eternal bliss part of heaven. It always seems very vague. So on earth you’re not supposed to enjoy life’s pleasures or joys “too much” because in heaven you can’t enjoy it “too much”, like what’s the goal. Is it just dangle temptation in front of you as a test, so you don’t go to hell. So does that mean you can be a sinner in heaven because you showed restraint on earth? Does that mean you get in because you proved that you are ok with living a pious life but now there is no temptation and no free will? Either way it sounds like physical torture in hell or mental torture in heaven, I’m a bit confused. I’m willing to listen, hell seems pretty specific but heaven is pretty vague.
There’s a reason that critical thinking and structured religion are incompatible.
There is a reason that people study religion and philosophy.
Like particle physics, a couple of YouTube videos can’t make you understand subtle concepts that evolved over generations of experiences.
Or perhaps all that time spent on pondering fantasies is time that you have a sunk cost into, so it’s harder with time to rationalize the fantasies properly.
There is a reason that people study religion and philosophy.
Because the mind recoils from mortality and desires there to be more.
Maybe you can’t even move or see anything but you are fed chemical bliss like heroin non stop.
Thanks, but could I please just go back to playing Portal 2?
HEV suit voice: morphine administered
In the book, “Metamorphosis of the Prime Intellect”, an AI takes complete control of physicsl reality and provides an environment on command for everyone.
There are groups of people who tell the AI to permanently stimulate neurons to flood their brains with dopamine, and just become non responsive husks.
This is one of my favorite science fiction stories for the way it deals with the question of what it would really be like to live in a perfect world (the related story “A Casino Odyssey in Cyberspace” also has some interesting ideas on this front). But be warned that it contains some scenes of extremely graphic sex and violence, and the final chapter has some incredibly weird and pervy shit that just about ruins the whole thing (to the point that I think skipping it and ending in a cliffhanger is better.)
Another fantastic story in this vein is Ted Chiang’s “Hell is the Absence of God,” which takes place in a world like ours except for the fact that God is objectively real and angels regularly manifest on Earth. It’s more about the psychological conflicts among people who want to have faith but can’t for various reasons, but the way Heaven is portrayed and the effect it has on people is a pivotal part. And it has one of the biggest gut-punch sentences of any story I’ve ever read.
I’m kinda hoping that we’ve figured out how to hack the time dilation effect in the brain, coupled with realistic deep dive VR, and when I die I’ll wake up somewhere and see my wife still plugged into the game. I’ll get the kettle on, make us a sandwich or a nutritious protein goo, and wait for her to die too so we can decide what scenario to live through next.
If there’s nothing left worth participating in this doesn’t sound like a bad option
Thank you I just downloaded it. Sounds like a good read.
It’s a bit of a mistake to assume that you would be your fully conscious, rational, Earthly self in the afterlife; with all your memories and such intact. Death is transformation. A better way to imagine it is as if you would have a really nice and long dream. You don’t get bored of dreams.
Could be interesting to reach a higher state of consciousness even if it’s not me anymore or I might not care because I would have nothing to compare it to, so it would just be a normal day to my new self. But if it’s just like being on a heroin high for eternity, then I’m good, I’ll pass.
It’s not as bad as some fear, but not as nice as others hope for. You don’t even have to do drugs or fully die to try it out, but it’s a bit tricky to set up in modern life for most people. Lemmy is generally not the demographic for stuff like this though
There is a lot in old religions, Christianity included, where the rewards were obviously written for the desires of the people at the time. It would be very different if heavenly rewards were written with today’s mindset.
you’re not supposed to enjoy life’s pleasures or joys “too much”
That’s a rather puritanical view. I would say the dangers of pleasure are similar to the dangers of heroin – the problem is not enjoying it too much, but becoming single-minded in its pursuit.
As for sin in heaven, I guess you would not want to because all of your deepest needs are met without sin.
A common image of heaven is a bunch of saints playing harps. Nowadays this looks boring; imagine instead a giant jam session with everyone rocking out.
christian rock? fucking hell, would rather blow my brains out
‘Hello, brother!’ ‘Hello, brother!’ ‘Hows your day been?’ ‘Same as yesterday, just great!’ ‘Great! See you again tomorrow, brother!’ ‘Great! See you again tomorrow, brother!’
…repeat for all eternity
Really the Bible doesn’t say very much about hell.
Sometimes a character will be thrown into a pit of fire or similar but it’s never claimed its for everyone.
Really all it says it’s you’ll be “without God”. Generally, it seems like non-Christians just die but Christians get a second afterlife - unless of course they ate shellfish.
Heaven is supposed to be all good if someone isn’t enjoying their existence there then it’s not heaven
I really hope that if there’s an afterlife, it isn’t anything like in the bible. It sounds like pure torture.
I would prefer the afterlife to be something like a super-advanced future civilization scanning people’s minds from the past and putting them in a simulation modeled after how The Good Place was after they fixed it in the show.
I’m not sure if I hope it’s the same thing as you desire, but being in a God-induced haze of peace (like being benzo’d out or something) with nothing to do or look froward to sounds hellish. If you no longer have need of that, you’re stripped of “you”, and that sounds even worse.
I just want more time to finish my Steam backlog.
It would be nice if you had some time to reflect and maybe explore from your current persona, followed by an eventual memory wipe so you can start over again. Otherwise I’d expect it to get pretty dull eventually.
Or check this out: whatever’s in the afterlife is so much better than anything ever was in the life, and you will not have the feeling of nostalgia, because that’s a human thing and you don’t need that garbage.
But he already has a halo!
If there is a frozen yogurt stand, you know this isn’t the good place.
Bruh if I can’t smoke weed and play video games all day wtf is the point of heaven
Time to narrate my interpretation of “afterlife” when considering several religions, novels, and philosophers. Lets ignore the power aspects of religion for this though, I don’t think the original authors had the slightest idea that their works would be used to control people.
Lets start with my primary observations.
- Universally, all religions seem to agree that awareness of existence is suffering.
- All religions attempt to explain why this is.
- All religions attempt to alleviate some of that suffering in various ways.
- All religions attempt to teach the understanding of the universal suffering, the explanations, and alleviations to everyone.
- All religions acknowledge the fear of death.
- All religions suggest an explanation of death.
- All religions attempt to alleviate the fear of death.
The first point, I think, is the important one. Universal suffering. Bhuddism calls this out in plain language. It suggests a path to “enlightenment” that is very similar to modern mental health techniques.
The logical conclusion is that if life is suffering, death is comfort. But we fear death, and mourn the dead. So, we are faced, individually, with a choice. We have an extremely tiny fraction of the age of the universe to experience it and how incredible it is - do you choose to experience it, in its full nature with the suffering included, and make the best of it? Or do you choose to say “fuck this shit” and skip on that unique journey?
Soren Kierkegaard:
‘Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.’
Frank Herbert adds:
‘A process cannot be understood by stopping it. Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and flow with it.’
So, personally, I’ve chosen to experience reality. Accept that it has a lot of suffering, but enjoy the beauty of watching a lunar eclipse. Studying the intricacies of quantum mechanics. Observing how life has evolved over millions of years.
I take my experience with me to the grave. No one else will be able to experience it. And in the end, I will no longer suffer.
I have never quite understood the obsession with life as suffering - life includes suffering but is not defined by suffering, it’s defined by physical embodiment and consciousness. I don’t really fear death exactly, but do so enjoy being physically embodied and conscious. Have I suffered? Sure, plenty. But not more than I have enjoyed. I don’t at all define or experience my life AS suffering. Joy is louder.
I do think heaven or afterlife would have to involve losing all critical thought and individuality, particularly the Christian heaven, I don’t think most people could be ecstatically happy if they knew others were in hell and they could not do anything to try to help.
Im don’t disagree with that. As you can tell toward the end of my Ted Talk I find joy in life, and death naturally has the absence of suffering.
The idea of Heaven and Hell are concepts for those who can’t grasp that life is complex, and are used to control people.
If there are afterlives (I don’t think there are), I’d want mine to just be me and my girlfriend, talking about whatever interests us and just holding each other. I genuinely tear up at the thought. It’d be so perfect.
But he has a Halo?
Two Halos even
That version isn’t exactly useful if The Flood shows up though…
There’s a movie in there somewhere. Noah having to survive The Flood, and somehow manages to start The Spartan program…
You get to heaven then some homicidal maniac comes in and ruins everyone’s nice peaceful time with his Head Explodey powers.
Does the bible say anything about heaven except people will be happy and be with god? No real details about why they are happy or what the big deal is about being with god. Is he/she funny? A good dancer? What?
Truck-kun, please take me to a nice isekai. Actually it doesn’t have to be that nice, as long as it’s not Redo of a Healer. Taylor Farms already had their way with me.
What could be a better afterlife than an infinitely configurable “video” game?
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