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I would rather liberals don’t have a revolution, last thing I want is more liberalism
Liberal revolution be like:
My wife made that exact same joke when I told her about this
Same applies to modern protest. A big rule of thumb for this shit is: Can the evil leaders ignore what you’re doing? If so, they will. If you cry about how there should be “no kings;” you’re essentially hoping that the worst people on earth suddenly develop a conscience, hear your plea, and correct all of the bad things they’ve done. No, they’ll just ignore it. Here are some disruptions to the status quo that they can’t ignore:
- The economy (go on strike, protest on weekdays, don’t be orderly, in-fact, be a total nuisance to the day-to-day operations in a city - preferably a “high value” location)
- The panopticon (ruin the surveillance state - protest the cameras, protest the data centers (also helps the last point), protest the infrastructure that these things rely on)
- Their livelyhood (protest where they live. And there’s plenty to choose from; the shear number of people whose decisions actively fuck your life is astounding)
Just remember: don’t harm anyone or anything. Protest them. Got it? Good.
don’t harm anyone or anything
Okay and when they just decide you are enough of a nuisance that they decide to start killing and disappearing your organizers (which is the stage we have been at for like a century in the US) then what?
Pure nonviolence is a great way to get yourself killed.
Read between the lines man, this is a public forum and the surveillance state is real. There’s obvious sarcasm and word stand-ins. I’m not gonna spell it out for you.
Okay but that last sentence is unnecessary in that case. Just what you posted is enough to have you labeled a terrorist agitator.
Joining a union or creating one is one of the most subversive things one can do in this day and age. Propaganda for unions is very effective at leveraging the class schism in favour of workers/socialism.
Just don’t a union that advocates creating large weaponry or represents law enforcement/servants of the state.
Proper unionising makes capitalists piss their pants. I have read a ton about politics (to my detriment – rip mental health) and it seems to really give you the most bang for your buck.
Unions are good, but you also need a political party that can go beyond trade unionism into an all-sided class struggle.
I would tend to agree on the class party aspect, but as with anything there is an outward motion. The most effective struggle doesn’t start at the higher levels of abstraction. Egoism comes first, not in the Stirnerian sense, where people make sure they are not deported by ice, where military service is eschewed, where when arrested the fifth amendment is kept in mind. The next stage would be tenant unions, trade unions, more organised forms of struggle. Then education, reading circles, discussions, talks and so on. I see the party as the capstone of all of these working class interests. Ultimately it becomes the expression of our species’ interest towards the end of class struggle.
Ultimately, without a party, unions retain their present level of struggle. This means they are highly localized around their own interests, and not the interests of the working class as a whole. This is why a party is necessary to begin with, so that unions can be more militant, connected, and disciplined from the beginning. No time is too early for a party.
Where I am from there are like 8 different leftists parties laying claim to the same chunk of people. There will be one big and relevant party in the end, but getting there has the danger of a bajillion parties competing and creating noise rather than directed struggle. XKCD standards meme
Sure, that’s why having a clear and correct party line is important.
bingo
That’s how it’s always been, look at pre-revolutionary russia same there.
I get what you are saying, the Russian revolution was a success despite sharing a feature that was a great hindrance. I think though that saying “X has always been like this” has a somewhat ahistorical quality to it. There is simply no good knowledge of the future.
It shouldn’t be all that surprising that liberals choose to continue to participate in liberal democracy. It’s their system. They want to see it maintained, they don’t want to see it dismantled or replaced. They like things the way they are, more or less, and they don’t want to see things radically change.
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I don’t want that change either, but I think the right kind of change is not only acceptable, it’s absolutely necessary. I don’t think liberals should be expected to embrace just any change - like change that would make things worse - but they should be open to positive changes, even if those changes seem relatively “radical.”
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Do you think we support either part of the USian uniparty in general?
Harm reduction voting is kicking the can down the road, or in Christian terms ‘robbing peter to pay paul’
It’s based in fear and cowardice. The only way we will ever change anything is if we are collectively fearless and fucking stand for principles
Its also a self fulfilling prophecy, which is exactly what Dems seem to be hoping for. Splitting the vote so facists keep winning seems more and more to be the real goal of most Democrats since like… Al Gore
Give a productive example *of an alternative.
Downvotes for why ffs
There are numerous examples of successful socialist revolutions. China is an increasingly relevant example.
Look at where we are now. With the ratchet effect. You keep voting for genocide? Guess what you get. Kamala literally said there would be no difference, the most lethal military ever, campaign with a McCain and where did that lead us
She also identified Iran as the “biggest threat”. Almost like there’s a continuity of agenda!
A productive example, not your view of history.
Something realistic and productive.
but liberals at least talk about things like operation orange chicken with the discussion as the main part of their resistance movement
we should call Trump “cheeto” or “orangutan” even more often, it’s like 10x effective than silly stuff like organizing for revolution for the proletariat
So real… lol
The way you get people to join the revolution is to help them, you have to give them as much of a taste of what your idealogy can bring as you can. You don’t need to be a part of government to do that, but it helps you reach more people. When people say get organized, one of the things that mean js being a part of local government and that requires someone to vote for you. Mamdani has done more for socialism in America then anything else has in a long time. This isn’t to say americans shouldn’t revolt, they absolutely should, but local representation is intrincincly linked to that, and they can take the form of union reps, community leaders and yes even local politicians.
This is exactly what Lenin was arguing for in Left Communism: an infantile disorder. Socialists must engage with electoralism to show the benefits of socialism and to maintain visibility in a pre-revolutionary society. It doesn’t mean to vote blue no matter who, but it does mean get involved with local politics (and even national politics as much as you can) to do actual harm reduction.
Exactly. And especially getting involved locally, where you can have a greater influence and more readily make a difference.
Friendly reminder that a common propaganda tactic is to discourage your opposition from voting
Marxists have been against reformism since the beginning. Is your point that communism is a GOP tactic?
My point is that if you want to win in a first-past-the-post voting system, if you can’t get everyone to vote for your candidate the next best thing is to stop your opposition from showing up. Common tactics are limiting who has access to polling places, purging people from voting rolls, adding barriers to registration, and sabotaging mail-in ballots, but you can also encourage apathy, purity testing or erode faith in the electoral system, all of which work to allow a party with a minority of supporters to win an election.
Communists oppose both the DNC and GOP. Both the DNC and GOP have a minority of supporters.
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Adventurism isn’t revolution, it’s a refusal to study theory before taking action. I will never condemn Luigi but to claim his actions were revolutionary fails to explain how they meaningfully gained worker power.
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No power was gained by the working classes. We are not a step further in gaining socialism. The reason there was no follow-up is because it was an adventurist, disorganized act, and organization is fundamental to revolutionary change.
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How does it not? A random assassination isn’t revolutionary, nor does it advance the worker struggle. Organizing does, it positions us in a better place for revolution.
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Without revolutionary theory, there can be no revolutionary practice. Random assassinations aren’t revolutionary. Organizing in a revolutionary party is revolutionary because it advances the revolutionary position.
Adventurism is not revolution.
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As if you’d know: one post ago you thought Luigi’s adventurism was revolutionary.
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The point was that you clearly don’t know anything about revolutions
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Groups like the Party for Socialism and Liberation are at the forefront of salient political organizing in the US, and are growing constantly. I think we should join orgs like it and expand the organizing of the working classes.
No officer, I don’t think I will.
Revolution has never happened
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No it’s true, no revolution has ever happened and everyone who ever thought they did one was wrong. Nobody is a revolutionary and there is no hope of ever becoming one, leaving us with no path but to do nothing and contribute only hopeless navel gazing. I am a very serious communist.
risk being locked up revolutionary. lmao bro, you libs don’t even have the slightest idea what the fuck true political organization means. you mfs believe revolution is a one man call of duty mission. the gringo states is truly the most backward brainwashed nation on earth.
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did i say that? no
political organization is way more relevant and actually does something. voting who bourgeois is going to fuck you in the ass with blue or red paint does absolutely nothing but to legitimize your fascist empire.
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Strikes have given you basically every working right you currently have, if that’s what doing nothing looks like then I don’t know what to say.
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Strikes are more revolutionary than adventurism, and historically have succeeded far more than simple assassination at getting concessions. They are also practice and discipline for actual revolution.
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We need to advance organization, not just commit adventurism.
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You were praising adventurism as revolutionary.
Striking is the bread and butter of revolutionary activity. The February revolution in Russia was a mass strike that escalated to a point the state could no longer control it. What do you think revolutionary activity looks like?
You are right, people are striking less now than they used to which is a major reason why things are getting worse: cost of living increasing, wages stagnating, the rich getting richer etc.
We need to unite as workers and strike, not vote, for the conditions we deserve.
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Popular support is needed for a revolution to happen. But striking even on a smaller scale is steel still a very effective way at gaining larger action from the population.
Earlier you said risking being thrown in jail was something revolutionaries should do. What do you mean by that and why would it be more effective than going on strike?
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Sorry for late reply lol
Reaction of violence by the capitalist state is definitely a common side effect of larger strikes and is a certainty during revolution. But the effectiveness or revolutionary status of an action shouldn’t be measured by how violent a reaction it gets from the capitalist state. We should be striving for the greatest change with the least negative outcome, not aiming to risk dying or going to jail.
Of course a single small scale strike isn’t going to cause a revolution. But it’s still revolutionary in the fact that it builds class consciousness and paves the way for further action. A single strike certainly does more than voting.
^fedposting
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The only person doing something revolutionary in liberal countries in recent years is Luigi. And he has the balls to admit that he did it. Beyond that, any other protest has been much closer to voting than to an uprising.
I wouldn’t say he’s the only person, there’s been a lot of scattered protests lately (not counting peaceful marches) and destroying Flock cameras has become a social media trend, but other than that I mostly agree with your point
Weeks and decades and all that.
Just going to your local DSA meeting is risking jail at this point or worse.
“Revolutions” aren’t really started by people on the ground, it’s a response to ruling class oppression. All you can really do is organize and hope for the best.
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It’s a worthwhile conversation to have, I agree.
So many people get all ready to take on the system, man, without understanding the infinite hard work of building community.
Fidel started with 12 people. But he had the support of the communities around him. And a murderous regime to oppose.
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There is no discussion of “destroying a regime” though. What we seek to build are resilient communities.
I get that you’re doing some figuring out here. But you’re actively talking online about things that are now illegal speech. Fidel is an example not of blindly destroying a regime but an example of the importance of building community. Or, organizing.
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You can play those semantic games if you want. It won’t get you anywhere.
I need you to look up the Palmer raids or any other red scare nonsense in this country. No amount of “technically the constitution” is going to make your words “legal”. The laws are made up and enforced with extreme violence by white supremacists.
The reason I say this to you: any sort of discussion about merely changing the system is going to be seen as treasonous. Mamdani was named by doj in conjunction with npsm 7 or whatever it is.
Analyze the material reality of the situation and act accordingly. I spend a lot of my time in my communities. Not all have the same overlapping goals. But none of them advocate for a revolution, that’s an extreme risk for almost no upside.
Yo this meme got people talking 😂😂
Yo OP what is your idea of revolution though?
Is it riots in the streets? Hunting down the elites? Or maybe just voting far left? Please help these liberals figure out how to save this country. No idea is a bad one after all!
Revolution is the overthrow of the old state apparatus and the creation of a new state for the new ruling class, the working class. The tactics of revolution vary depending on the country and conditions, time in the movement, etc, but the overall strategy requires an organized revolutionary class and the replacement of the old state with a new one.
Revolution is the overthrow of one class by another. What occurred in France, Russia, and a number of anti-colonial national liberation struggles throughout the global south for instance. The OP is of course being facetious (can’t blame them, Americans are frustrating in their servitude and passivity despite what’s unfolding), revolution doesn’t occur unless the material conditions are conducive to mass disobedience on that scale. The problem is that liberals are trying to funnel the disillusionment and contain it in hopes of dissipating the revolutionary moment in order to get back to their usual business of putting a human face on America’s domination and hostility in South America, Asia, and Africa as the “Good Cop” to the Republican’s “Bad Cop”.
Revolution is the culmination of the difficult work of building a new society. It is not, as most of us who grew up movie-brained were taught to believe, a call of duty mission
As an immigrant, go fuck yourself.
Being a member of some or other group doesn’t automatically make you right. This is no different to a Republican substituting a coherent political or philosophical argument with “As a straight white Christian male, I have this opinion and you can’t question it”.
Please explain.
This is how Trump got elected a second time.
And for the record, those of you who didn’t vote are the ones truly responsible for this shit. Fuck you and the ivory tower you stand on.
By all means, organize a revolution. But do damage control now and fucking vote instead of letting things get far worse before that can happen
no, trump got elected precisely because of shits like you. trump exists because bluemaga bullshit keep doing their shit of allowing more and more the right wingers. trump is a direct consequence of the uselessness of the bluemaga fascists. trump exists because the international policy of blue and red maga are fucking indistinguishable. the same fucking policy of killing brown people, of stealing, bullying, mafia behaviour. fucking own your fucking shit. it’s much worse you’re not even owning your shit for people outside your fucking fascist empire, we are the ones that suffer the most. not you inside the empire. fucking stop believing in the fucking fairy tale of voting the fascists out, you aint doin fukcing shit but to continously expect nothing of politicians because “its the most important election of our times” and anything is better than the redmaga. then bluemaga just becomes even more fascist than what it is. then redmaga even more. fucking organize, fucking read marxist literature. fucking stop believing cia propaganda. fucking go fuck yourself.
Erm, @mod, what does one do when a mod breaks rule 1?
lol truly the moral high ground.
Schrodinger’s leftist, simultaneously too irrelevant to be worth making any concessions to and also solely responsible for whether the democrats lose the election.
Oh really, so Trump getting elected a second time is the fault of a group with zero political representation in America?
What a dumb fucking take.
Those damn commies ruined everything again.
How dare those commies, who aren’t even part of the Democratic Party’s base, fail the Democrats again?
No, it isn’t. Trump got elected the second time because the DNC alienated their traditional voter base by failing to stop supporting genocide and failing to promise necessary change. Leftists protesting did not significantly influence the election, but a failure to galvanize the voterbase did.
Trump got elected again because Dems couldn’t stop alienating demographic groups that have traditionally been strongly democratic in voting patterns. Did you really think it was smart to appeal to neo-cons and alienate centre-left voters?
“By all means, build a house. But do damage control and fucking let us burn your lumber for warmth now and continuously into the future, thus ensuring you will never finish the house”
