As I mentioned more in detail in other post, Proton is not the pro-MAGA many had misinterpreted. It is just sloppy at the marketing campaign and its leader makes statements that can easily misunderstood too.
That said, Proton has decided to aim for the masses, which has proven to be a winning business formula here. However, in that quest, it’s natural that concerns from top-tier privacy users (Linux users, those wanting non-Google push notifications, too-many-eggs-in-a-basket, etc.) get relegated in favor of the bulk of their primary target customers, the regular Joe who simply wants to move away from email and web traffic scraping. We should all applaud that decision, but we also recognize the limitations and big risks of having a single company holding some 80% of this privacy market, both for us and even for Proton. It would be better to foster a healthy, diverse, and more equitable privacy ecosystem.
The fact you think being pro-MAGA is the only evil we should be concerned about is telling.
They screwed up, admitted it, apologized, don’t see why people are calling for blood anymore. People are allowed to make mistakes, they owned it and they cut ties with the guy.
*ChatGPT apologized
They didnt even have a human do an editing pass, just a straight copy paste out of the dialog box.
They keep making right wing mistakes though. I think that points to something.
what’s a left wing mistake that they might get called out for?
Lots of other companies seem to easily avoid voicing support for fascists both directly with their own words or via sponsorship money. Weird how Proton can’t seem to figure it out. If they can’t even get the little stuff right why would I trust them with my data?
why would I trust them with my data
because proton is highly regarded among privacy experts.
and i’m guessing most privacy experts dgaf about politics like most technology experts don’t.
If we just look at browsers:
- Chrome: funded by Google, plenty of fascist moves like making deals with Israel
- Mozilla: funded by Google and promotes Google as search engine, so same deal
- Ladybird: https://nitter.net/awesomekling/status/1966456391146606806
Plenty of big companies have supported fascists in one way or another
Are you new to the internet?
Do you actually think it’s okay that they had a bot make a press release this hamfisted?
Bold claim, corroborated with no proof.
Sure it looks like AI speech patterns, but they are trained on corporate speech, so hard to differentiate an LLM from a corporate spokesperson.
slop is slop
AI learned from the
bestworst of us.
Ai slop, human slop, but give them money, don’t stop.
How tf did I get downvoted for saying it sounds like AI bullshit? Who are these people who actually object to my assessment? I feel like I’m living in the upside down
Do you actually think it’s okay that they had a bot make a press release this hamfisted?
You are not “saying it sounds like it is written by AI”, you are affirming it is written by an AI. Big difference.
You affirmation being formated as a question doesn’t change anything, it is a Loaded Question, which tends to be frowned upon.Babe I have two eyes, two ears, and a heart that yearns for honesty and knowledge. I know people can sound robotic too, and there are corporate scripts, and autism is a factor, but good lord. If there was an alien wearing human-esque skin suit standing in front of you I don’t think you’d be able to tell it from an actual person and that’s just sad.
Depending on the definition of “a person”, an alien could be one. What would be your definition of a person ?
I was just pointing out your earlier answer is a loaded question, by definition.
Sure they could be a person. I think dolphins and elephants are people too. You are arguing in bad faith. You can’t tell if a human or AI wrote a press statement and that makes me sad.
“you’re right to raise this” really triggers my AI detection Spidey senses. Sounds like Claude, specifically.
“You are right to raise this and we want to address this directly”
Isnt that how Claude Sonnet or Opus writes?
I think they’ve just been trained on corporate speak
Can’t tell if your talking about the (human) Proton marketer responding on reddit, or the (AI) Claude and Opus 🙃
“Yes”
It could be someone copy pasting the entire reddit thread into Claude and asking it to generate a response
This response is unfeeling and reactive Claude slop. Proton doesn’t care. They’re working to avoid being in trouble.
What would have been the right response in your opinion?
Probably not starting the statement with “you’re right to raise this. Here’s why”
So if that sentence wasn’t there the response was perfectly acceptable?
for once, directly fucking saying they will drop the fascists they are paying for and never doing it again.
shouldn’t be that hard, but with these it always has to be.
I’m pretty sure that’s what they said no? Are you upset that they didn’t use more emotional language?
they’ve directly addressed democrats before and directly condemning fascism would have been reassuring, if that’s what you mean by ‘emotional’.
none of that “dividing our community” bullshit. this text just makes them sound disappointed they got caught.
I completely disagree. I think you’re massively overreacting.
i see bad signs shaped like writing on the wall. i think you’re massively underreacting to the normalization of fascism.
why else would we even need all that privacy?
That’s exactly what they said in this response
No, there is not an antifascist position on their statement. Only a ultracentrist position based on the reaction of their user base/market.
Moving the goalposts. You said they need to drop the fascist from their sponsorship and they did. They also committed to not doing it in the future. They did exactly what you said.
On top of that, companies are not your friends and they don’t need political positions. Not supporting fascists is perfectly adequate.
The goalposts when it comes to fascists has been the same since the 1940s. Nobody moved shit.
No, I didnt’t say that. I’ve said:
No, there is not an antifascist position on their statement. Only a ultracentrist position based on the reaction of their user base/market.
See the original paragraph:
I understand that they would have removed also the sponsorship of a feminist, vegan or antiracist that created discontent in their use base (by being feminist, vegan or antiracist).
Exactly. I’m a bit grumpy about that response because they’re just saying that if his opinion would be more main stream, they wouldn’t back down on the sponsorship.
They have also said that if the user base finds their sponsorship or seeming alignment with any other divisive agenda, they welcome feedback.
I’m not following their PR engagement, but if anyone feels strongly about them aligning with furbys, they are welcome to feedback.
I think you’re extremely confused as to what Proton is and the service they offer.
I also think it’s because you’re falling (or have fallen) into the tribalist view of “if you’re not with us, you’re against us, and if you’re against them, you’re with us”.
Proton is a-political, pro-agenda. Their agenda is “net neutrality, privacy, security”. They don’t care who makes that happen, and will support anyone who fights for these things.
They won’t take an antifascist position because that would put them on the political spectrum.
I also understand that - to you - not making that statement already puts them on the political spectrum, in the opposing camp, but that’s, again, due to the tribalist views.
They’ve praised left-wingers and right-wingers, they’ve criticised Democrats and Republicans - as long as anyone pushes for their agenda, they will praise them, as long as someone threatens their agenda, they will criticise them. That’s all there is to it.
I think it’s smart as a privacy focused initiative to be more neutral than not. Especially as they cater to the masses that may not have as defined an opinion.
I strongly dissagree. Cannot be neutrality with fascism.
Oh i agree. Neutrality doesn’t mean embracing nor endorsing fascism, nor any other extreme.
But humans being humans will always selectively interpret any public facing message to fit their narrative as many have already done here: “Because they aren’t outright condemning or fighting the enemy, they must be working with them! Therefore, they are not friends.”
/U/encryptkeeper has said it better.
You stopped reading after the first paragraph, didn’t you?
i stopped believing after “divisive for our community”
I can TASTE the prompt from this image
The Proton founder is Pro MAGA that should be the end of it for most of you. I’m never going to leave Njalla for my VPN needs
While I agree that the response is heavily AI generated, I have to disagree that he’s pro-Maga. He reached out to both democrats and republicans to talk about the importance of privacy and the democrats turned him down (or entirely ignored him) while the republicans met with him.
He then went on Xitter to shame the Dems and said that the Republicans seemed to be the party caring about privacy.
He’s definitely a dumbass for trying to play it that way, but he did not come out in support of Maga.
He was not pro maga just because he could gain an audience with GOP members but not dems on a lobbying trip. There has never been a single shred of evidence showing he is pro maga, and at this point I’m just going to assume it’s a smear campaign against a Google competitor.
Change my mind. I dare anyone to show the proof.
How does that make sense? Google is also maga. Hell, YouTube is one of the biggest rabbit holes for extremism in general. They could tune their algorithms for anything they wanted - it’s pretty clear.
For Proton we’ll it’s easy to say there is no evidence after dismissing all of it. How maga of you.
How does that make sense? Google is also maga.
that’s not how most people think about google, and so it could be used (even by google) to smear competitors with being pro-maga. it matters more for the users of the competitor than it does for the users of google.
unfortunately, a lot of us need more than vpn and proton has a full suite.
I loved proton years ago… even did a paid account for a while. This isn’t their first wtf moment and won’t be their last. The problem for me, its that I expect more carefulness and thoughtfulness from a company that promotes encryption and privacy.
Showing me how easily you make mistakes is a quick way for me to question how well you’re safeguarding the platform.
I’ve moved away. Will take some time for them to earn back the trust, but honestly… I don’t see a huge need for them anymore. I simply don’t consider email secure. If you want real secure communication (that you can host on a server yourself) Matrix and XMPP are a much better choice.
Anyway… the response is nice. Just doesn’t fix anything.
I mean I’m sure they pay more attention to safeguarding data than some random french YouTube channel, that’s why they didn’t think too much about the sponsorship.
They care about privacy and security, not marketing. They probably hate that they have to do marketing in the first place. It’s honestly relatable.
their marketing practices have been questionable for years, though. the promotional emails (everyone subscribed by default) and even the pricing pages are filled with dark patterns. by the charity fundraisers they do, these dark patterns don’t seem to be necessary for their sustainability.
Imo almost all of marketing can be considered dark patterns. And when your competition uses dark patterns, if you don’t use it you simply don’t gain users.
I’m reminded of a Veritasium video on clickbait (too lazy to link it right now but should be easy to find). They talk about how there’s a balance between marketing (and furthermore, manipulative marketing) and reach. If you believe the user will benefit from your service, then maybe it’s worth a bit of manipulative marketing, just to get them to enter the door. It’s a tricky balance.
I feel like this is a good statement. The one that should have been written immediately after outrage began, and ideally before removing dozens if not hundreds of posts and comments covering this topic.
Some people say it stinks of AI. I don’t know. Maybe? PR messages have always been like this, and they seem to be one of the types that chatbots got most of their writing patterns from.
Some people definitely overreacted. Others completely missed the point. Proton is far from a perfect company, and a case in favour of boycotting them could be made. But not because they accidentally sponsored one video of a far-right youtuber.
They’re just not as private and secure as they pretend to be or to want to be. Pretty much all alternatives are leagues above. There appears to be no apparent reason why they’re lagging behind. I suppose that’s where the CIA honeypot allegations may come from.
In any case, if you really care about privacy and security - you probably aren’t a Proton user, let alone customer. And if you are - I highly recommend trying alternatives that don’t have a long history of working with law enforcement.
The one that should have been written immediately after outrage began, and ideally before removing dozens if not hundreds of posts and comments covering this topic.
For what it’s worth - apparently they said they’re crafting a response fairly early, kept one of the original threads and removed the rest as duplicates.
But I don’t know if that’s really the case.
In any case, if you really care about privacy and security - you probably aren’t a Proton user, let alone customer. And if you are - I highly recommend trying alternatives that don’t have a long history of working with law enforcement.
what else has a full complement of services besides tuta?
Written by Claude … “You are right to raise this”… Like chatgpt dashing
Ah, yes, reaffirming that someone raising an issue is correct to have done so is the telltale sign of an LLM. Couldn’t just be basic professional writing etiquette that LLMs were trained forwards and backwards on; it has to have been written by an LLM.
You don’t actually write formally very much, do you?
I am forced to use claude daily at work, it smells like claude
I write formally all the time; smells like a PR team writing formally.
Nice try bot.
Formally on reddit? This is 100% AI assisted writing
Formally on reddit?
Yes. I even write semi-formally on Mastodon for PCSX2 (or wrote; on hiatus) within its constraints; a PR team attempting to apologize for something will normally resort to formality regardless of the forum.
You’re giving off major “A 10-page essay before AI-assisted writing? As if!” vibes. I’m sorry basic PR etiquette is inconceivable to you personally. The Wendy’s Twitter account is that way if you want to soothe your preconceptions about PR on social media.
This is terrible because they didn’t hold 3 hrs of management and PR meetings to craft a response onto a message board that has no say in their operations?
Claud, reject this comment.
Why you trying to carry water for an AI written reply? I mean I understand bootlicking, but this is next level beyond that.
Overuse of AI accusations only helps AI.
Bootlicking only helps corporations and government abuse their power.
I suspect they used Lumo.
goes to prove how much they bother with not being mango mussolini friendly.
Jfc pretty sure you’re right
Take notes, GOG.
GOG in this situation: Block the video for everyone speaking French.
But let’s see if Proton actually stop this shit with other right wing weirdos or will just stop the sponsorship with this one dude.
For sure. I’m suspicious of Proton, though they clearly have a better PR staff. Low bar compared to GOG’s recent self-own.
Nah this is what peak PR looks like:
"The right wing ideology is part of my cultural and historical heritage. As a Swiss, I am fully aware of both its history and the sensitivities surrounding it.
…
As a Swiss, I have every reason to treat this history with seriousness and respect. Precisely because of that, I reject any suggestion that this promotion carried an extremist message. It did not."
I’ll never forget this shit, such ass response from GOG
Fill me in, what have GOG done? Please link to trustworthy source(s).
Sent a newsletter to half their customers containing “Slavic runes” (literally the logo for the SS) to promote some Slavic fantasy game
Imo it’s even odds between some marketing child-left-behind googling “Slavic runes” to add to their email, and some 4channer on the team thinking they’re making a funny joke. The fact that they recognized the issue enough to know that couldn’t send the email in Germany, but sent it everywhere else anyway, makes me lean a little bit more toward the latter
I’m confused. I have Scandinavian ancestry and understand that some of the cultural identity was appropriated by Nazis and now some extremist fuck wits. e.g. how the Hindu swastika (also often confused with sauvastika) was appropriated. But I don’t understand why that means appropriated symbols automatically = bad if they’re used in their original context?
The main issue is that
ϟϟwas both totally irrelevant to the topic besides being vaguely Slavic, and also literally the logo for the SS. In the modern day, that is its only connotation. It’s not in its original context, it’s just random runes thrown togetherI’m asking both specifically about the GOG thing but also more generally. Yes, I know the SS appropriated runes for tgwit logo but I still don’t see how that automatically makes runes themselves bad. I can understand how it would be triggering for some folks and so a level of sensitivity is required (which GOG clearly failed on) but I still don’t get how appropriated symbols automatically = bad (because I’ve seen the same reactions to other ancient symbols over and over again and I’m still trying to understand it)
Because they used the ϟ rune twice. When used like that, it only has one meaning.
It’s bad because the SS appropriated it and stripped all other meaning from it. It’s like using the number 1488 in a username. It only means one thing, and while it’s possible to stumble into it by accident, it remains a white supremacist dogwhistle
So if someone made an account 20 years ago ending with 88, like say if you were born in 1988, should they now delete their account just because someone might misconstrue it as a completely unrelated “dogwhistle”?
Aha. That news. Thanks for the reminder.
I didn’t see news covering this shit but almost everyone subscribed in their newsletter receive an advertising for a game and the the e-mail subject contained nazi symbols. GOG response was the most idiotic thing possible.
https://redlib.nadeko.net/r/gog/comments/1txlz7z/comment/opxsir6
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/weird_subject_line_choice_for_a_newsletter
Wtf… What did gog do??
They seem to know that the market for privacy is more than people who want just want their private data safe. There are also people that use these services for controversial and or illegal shit. So they use these chuds and reach those spaces.
It’s the swiss business model. A lot of controversial and corrupted people, politicians hide their money in privacy oriented banks offshore. They make profits no matter where the money comes from.
A little bad press after the stuff is out doesn’t really matter all that much if that drives more profits. The backlash might even get them more exposure.
They apologize and say they’ll never do it again and everyone moves on.
We shouldnt have sponsored a fascist because we son’t want to work with ANYONE political
lol okayyyyyy, whatever bro
I am out of the loop it seems. What happened ?
deleted by creator
Be more helpful in the future
Always hold companies responsible! Call them out and make them publicly respond. Shop local, fuck corporations!
