Inexpensive fiber-optic drones are challenging Israel’s high-tech defenses, shifting the military balance in the Middle East.
A recent video showing an explosive-laden drone striking an Israeli Iron Dome battery couldn’t have been more symbolic: Israel’s famous air-defense system, which cost billions of euros, looked powerless against a small aircraft that cost a few hundred euros.
While the video’s authenticity has not yet been verified, experts believe it is genuine.
The footage was published about a week ago by Hezbollah, a Lebanon-based pro-Iranian militia, which Germany, the US and several Sunni Arab states have classified as a terrorist organization.
The drone strike, if genuine, would mark propaganda victory for Hezbollah and reveal a significant vulnerability in Israel’s military capabilities.
How arrogant the Israeli leadership was to think it couldn’t happen to them when it’s been happening on the Ukrainian battlefield for a few years now. With Iranian-made drones no less.
Seriously, given how interconnected all these conflicts are, I’m convinced we are in WWIII,
No one said it has to have more deaths than the last one to be considered a world war
I’m convinced we are in WWIII
I’ve heard people speculate that it’s more like WW5 or 6, depending on how you want to count global conflicts between superpowers.
But from the US perspective, we’re a far cry from the kind of Total War we engaged in during the 40s.
This war only feels existential if you’re on the receiving end.
I’m convinced we are in WWIII,
the preamble perhaps. the conflict that sets the stage.
fml, the idea that putin/bibi/trump ally so closely in their desire to destroy their own countries, and xi is like: let’s make more terawatts of solar power and help cuba - the world is stranger and darker every day.
ebola may finally hit globally, thanks to stupid cuts at cdc/who/usaid
and then there’s taiwan… just sitting there, all tempting, and the US having expended tremendous amounts of our arsenal for the iranian folly… gee whiz…
So who exactly is the allied vs axis
It’s Axis vs Axis this time.
After getting away with genocide in Gaza and the assadination of Nassrallah, they got arrogant and thought Hizbollah was not for
Hell, it happened to Armenia, with Israeli-made drones.
The footage was published about a week ago by Hezbollah, a Lebanon-based pro-Iranian militia, which Germany, the US and several Sunni Arab states have classified as a terrorist organization.
And where’s the parenthetical comma for Israel?
Israel, the arpartheid Jewish ethnostate, has been globally condemned for its violation of human rights and massive bombings with civilian casualties, is currently invading Lebannon in an effort to expand its territory.
Hezbollah is not a militia, it is a party (with a connected militia).
Also DW is the only german medium that is state funded
The difference is Hezbollah isn’t a country…
If the conflict was a couple rational countries, then making your distinction makes sense. But Iran and America’s governments are just as bad as Israel’s.
If you give a parenthetical for Israel you have to do it for America and Iran.
Hezbollah is the odd one out, because they don’t have soverign soil to be attacked, a pretty important difference
If your goal is informing your readers, the fact that Israel is invading Lebannon is easily as important as a comically detailed explanation of how terroristy Hezbollah is.
If your goal is sanctioning violence done by state actors–a common feature of corporate media–you´d do what they did here.
the fact that Israel is invading Lebannon
Is because Hezbollah is based there…
I’m defending Israel, this is a (not even rare) situation where every government (and non state militant organization) is a piece of shit their citizens would be better off without.
That shouldn’t be hard to understand, but there’s a weird amount of pro-Iran accounts the last couple months, and they just won’t understand it
Equating a settler colonialist fascist state with a resistance group born out of resisting that ethnic cleansing is actually insane
I´m talking about the difference between journalism and propaganda; you don´t think it’s a little weird to come away from an article like this knowing Hezabollah is a terrorist organization according to Germany, the US, and several Sunni Arab states, but not that their country is currently being invaded with tanks?
but not that their country
Non state organizations do not have their own country’s…
Hezbollah is based in Lebanon and Lebanon is being invaded, that is not the same as Hezbollah is being invaded.
Like, you’re mad at an explanation in the article but you obviously need the explanation…
Missing my point entirely. Good day.
It would be fair to mention that Israel is led by a wanted war criminal, if you are going to use language to demonise and delegitimise one side the other side should be treated in a balanced manner.
The fact that the war Israel is currently being led by a war criminal is important because it makes the reader question whether the decision to invade Lebanon is just as it is being done by a known and wanted war criminal.
It would be fair to mention that Israel is led by a wanted war criminal
So is America and Iran…
It’s not any different, if anything you should be arguing everyone involved is terrible.
Didnt lebanon elect hazbalah though?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Lebanese_general_election
Tldr:
They have 15 seats when 65 is needed for a majority.
Is it weird that a political party is openly aligned with a militant non state organization?
Yep.
But it still doesn’t mean Hezbollah is being invaded, or that they’re Lebanon’s government.
Lebanon is being invaded, and a large amount of them never signed up for this shit.
Right, none of them did, that is why Israel is engaging in war crimes.
none of them did,
I legitimately don’t know what you’re referring to…
that is why Israel is engaging in war crimes
They were doing war crimes before they attacked Lebanon
It feels like you understand “Israel bad” but none of the actual facts or details. That’s very dangerous because billionaires are gonna point you
You need to understand more than “Israel bad” that’s not enough.
Why does Hezbollah exist again? What force drove the Shi’a of southern Lebanon to band together and create Hezbollah?
The answer to that question proves the lie of your statements.
Is because Hezbollah is based there…
I’m defending Israel,
this is a (not even rare) situation where every government (and non state militant organization) is a piece of shit their citizens would be better off without.That shouldn’t be hard to understand,
but there’s a weird amount of pro-Iran accounts the last couple months, and they just won’t understand itJust in case no one else noticed it.
It seems that Iron Dome,like the Patriot, are desgned for the last war, not the current war. Asymmetric deployment of volumes of small&cheap units will overload these systems, or at least cost your opponent too much.
Even aganst peer weapons thay are onlyildly successful. In Ukraine the patriots have intercepted Kinzals,bit will never be able, nor cost effective against Oreshniks (as the split too early)
There is one very cost-effective way to combat cheap drones. Laser systems being developed and deployed now are the logical counter to cheap drone swarms. Those systems have per-shot costs far below even the cheapest of mass produced drones.
ooooor how about small arms strapped to the back of some trucks and a very basic radar to tell them all where about the drones are? It seems to work for Ukraine, small cheap drones call for cheap mobile units. No need to bring freakin lazers into this, rifle caliber rounds work just fine and are even cheaper then a lazer system. As an added bonus small arms on the back of trucks are super mobile and can go to the place the drones are attacking, unlike a lazer that is not very portable and oh yeah needs a lot of power to run it. For ships? Sure, makes some sense. For basic civilian infrastructure defense? Ehhhhhh seems really silly.
The iron dome being made for the last war is correct, however as in the “final” war not “previous” war. The reason they don’t work is here is that they (like patriot, etc.) are built to stop very big very pricey ordnance up to and including world changing strategic missiles. We have seen these systems do great work in places like Ukraine and in small attacks in the past (think of the propane bottle rocket attacks). The issue is that the design clearly did not anticipate the current style of warfare, where it is drastically higher volume and intensity then those small nuisance attacks in the past but also using the cheapest devices to wage a war of attrition. In some places you see a hybrid defense using small cheap arms (insert Vietnam’s solution) and these “final” war style air defense missile systems. These places are at least thinking about the current reality, unlike what we see in that video where it is likely that iron dome battery simply had 1 less interceptor then there were drones and had zero backup to the system.
But I love lasers! 🥰
Iron dome is designed for cheaper rockets like Qassams from Hezbollah. They are effective agaimst cheap rockets and loitering/flying drones. Iron Domebwas always designed to be more expensive than what it takes out so that citizens would stay aligned.
True, but not at the scale we are seeing. They don’t have enough interceptors to defend, and likely their opponents knew that this would play out this way. They simply can not out produce drones with those pricey interceptors.
People can count the number of launchers in a battery, and number of interceptors in a launcher. They can then take this information and send more cheap easy to produce drones vs the air defense systems. Once those systems are compromised they can strike with little opposition any target in the area that system covered, with little chance of the defenders being able to regain “missile/drone superiority” in that area. Its a wild thing to see but the iron dome concept on its own has a major flaw once the attacks come in cheap and heavy.
Very much agree. I think that volume in asymmetry will beat any defense, even the lazers.
I am no expert though.
Lazers are neat and could work well for ships or static facilities where the power systems can be defended and the area to defend is small. They don’t really have the same hard limits to overwhelm as more traditional systems, but who knows if other limits will be present like say number of targets they can engage at a time. Lets say its the case of 3 targets can be engaged at the same time and the time before impact gives the lazers 3 chances to eliminate (as they do need time on target for effect, its not quite starwars blasters), giving the system a limit of 9 per incoming volley. That would be easy to over come, but what if its not 3 but 300 and time allows 40 attempts? The systems could be fantastic, or a small speed bump.
DEW weapons are always ‘just about to be deployed’ to change the situation.
It’s never as simple as generating a directed pulse (regardless of the wavelength) if you don’t acquire the target at range, and, environmental conditions are compatible with your weapon system.
I think it’ll get there, but would discourage anyone from believing it’s around the corner until we see shaheeds melting in the video feeds.
Doesn’t a reflective paint job counter your laser though?
No.
In the Middle East, perhaps. In Ukraine or Russia you simply don’t have laser weather most of the time.
No. Just think about it. If these were only good for sunny weather, they wouldn’t be putting in the resources to develop them. Such a weapon would be useless if your enemy just has to wait for a cloudy day. You just use a wavelength that isn’t scattered by water molecules.
There is no such wavelength available to my knowledge, although I would appreciate if someone pointed out a suitable window.
They are indeed throwing a lot of resources at a solution that will need a (kinetic) backup solution on a rainy, foggy or snowy day.
Water droplets absorb and scatter visible light, thermal radiation and short-wavelength radio waves. To the point of military radars being less capable during rain. Ice crystals are easier on radar, but mess up light even more severely.
The “resources to develop” are tax dollars. “They” will happily go along with whatever bullshit effectively transfers tax dollars into their bank accounts.
You mean America’s Iron Dome.
May all day in Israel be like this!
That looks like a very safe, cost effective and extremely sustainable way to live. Definitely a normal country.
Wait until you hear about the IDF Cum Extractor Unit: a totally normal military squad focused solely on jerking off dead men and racial purity. Very normal.
Dude, I don’t know if that’s a dig at the depravity that exists in the IDF, or if that’s real, but I wouldn’t put it past them. Fucking Gross.
Uh
No that’s a totally real and normal thing the chosen people do. How do you preserve the racial purity otherwise?
There is only one guarantee for Israeli security and that’s peace, deradicalization/dezionization (in the Matzpen sense, not in the ridiculous Yemelyanov sense), reparations, truth and reconciliation.
I did see footage of a drone attacking an Iron Dome site. Looked legit for what it’s worth. Literally flew right up to it. Unfortunately no footage of the aftermath from what I saw. Must have been quite the explosion though. Anyway, this is hopeful news. Let’s hope they keep this up and force Israel to back the fuck off.
Literally flew right up to it
Because you don’t see the 99.99% that were stopped at the defenses, that’s why a “swarm attack” would be so devastating.
It’s basically the attack scene from Zion in The Matrix. A steady flow of (relatively) inexpensive attack drones. Most will fail, for a very very long time nothing gets thru. But eventually one slips thru or defenses need to reload, but one slips thru and hits something.
If it hits something important, it’s now easier for every single one to get thru.
This was likely just proof of concept.
Send a wave out, aim at something random, and don’t stop till one gets thru. That is invaluable Intel for when/where to aim a swarm attack. They don’t need to breach everywhere, just one small section bearing insurmountable odds.
It would turn Iran into a super power on the world stage
Let’s hope they keep this up and force Israel to back the fuck off.
I don’t see the same connection here that you do. A failure of Israel’s defensive weapons would require them to go on the offensive. The status quo from before the October 7 attacks was tolerable to Israel because they could shoot down incoming threats but if they no longer can, they must neutralize the ability of their enemies to launch those threats.
A failure of Israel’s defensive weapons would require them to go on the offensive.
According to themselves, a day ending in y would require them to go on the offensive.
This is all a conflict of choice for them and the US and, if damage to the dome has any effect on them (which it probably won’t, since they’re so far gone down the colonialism genocide spiral), it would be to make them more cautious due to their own people being more vulnerable to consequences of their state terrorism.
I don’t know why you would assume that they would go further on the offensive.
All studies, publications, and reports show that if Israel didn’t have protection from retaliation, that they would be opposed to offensive operations if they experienced even a fraction of the horrors that they commit on others.
https://jewishcurrents.org/iron-dome-is-not-a-defensive-system
https://www.amacad.org/publication/daedalus/new-technologies-strategic-stability
Israel always wanted to be in perpetual conflict to continue it’s expansion. Conflict means the need to have superior firepower and defensive capabilities which help continue perpetrating it’s genocide unabated - it’s what Bibi pushed for these many decades.
https://www.972mag.com/netanyahu-hamas-october-7-adam-raz/
But if you take away the superior defensive capabilities and the risk of continued aggression (which is why there was opposition to funding the Iron Dome in the US) then Israel would think twice about it’s expansionist policies.
A failure of Israel’s defensive weapons would require them to go on the offensive.
Yes, but it will also require them to use alternative forces on defence, and it will also induce many Israelis to leave. This will create financial and manpower shortages. This might induce even more depraved behaviour in the short term, but I guess that’s a risk Iran & Co. are willing to take to ensure long-term peace.
I’ve been wondering about this for a while, but what does it cost to maintain the iron dome when your batteries are depleted and the missiles are on backorder? It’s not like literally anyone else is fielding this equipment, so what happens when the only customer suddenly needs a tall order every week?
Under normal economic conditions, a tamir missile costs about $80k, and a shahed drone costs about $30k (and dropping). These are not normal conditions, and I expect that Israel is going to have spotty coverage in the coming years.
The worst part is that I’m sure Netanyahu and his ilk have priced all this in and agreed that the casualties and long-term dependence on foreign funding and ordnance is a fair trade for the additional territory. I really hope the Israeli people disagree.
I think that’s the point when they take it to the ‘negotiating table’ and try to keep what they’ve taken.
Having said that Israel has a large multilayered antiair defense that isn’t just iron dome. They have SPYDER, helos with the APKWS, and it’s own CIWS systems, plus they are rushing SMASH Hopper (AI driven improvised gun mount). Which isn’t to say your point is wrong, they will run out.
Also these last several years has turn people and their political leaders off Israel, which I mention as it just compounds the economics of this. Israel needs a functioning economy and foreign aid to sustain it, but has been turning off it’s partners. Although yes, the US seems to be an exception in this, mostly from a leader stand point.
They’re certainly making an impressive go of it, but I don’t see anything in their arsenal that’s going to survive sustained attacks.
SPYDER is so comically expensive that resisting long range drones will bankrupt the country, and automated turrets, while much better from a price per kill perspective, simply don’t have the range of other solutions (hundreds of meters at best rather than 40km of SPYDER or 5km of iron dome).
A better solution for the drones in the OP might be the new Rheinmetall platforms with airburst ammunition, but I’m not sure Israel can procure those in the numbers necessary to cover their defenses or infrastructure.
Rheinmetall platforms with airburst ammunition
There’s a reason you might not want to be firing shrapnel explosives over the heads of your own citizens.
But hey, it’s Israel. Maybe they don’t give a shit.
Thats what America a is there for
what does it cost to maintain the iron dome when your batteries are depleted and the missiles are on backorder?
Iron Dome is specifically for short range rockets and mortars. David’s Sling is intended to defend against ballistic missiles like those used by Iran. The Arrow System is intended to counter ICBMs as part of a constellation of US based anti-ballistic systems. I’m not sure that last one has been used in more than test shots
trump’s first thought…“They shoulda went widda gold dome”.
It’s a new kind of war when one of your best defences is a jar of pickles.
I mean, no shit.
The hubris in thinking that your limited-number missiles can’t be overwhelmed by sheer numbers ffs.
very old news
The Iron Dome isn’t a physical barrier that can’t be passed, missiles have flown through it before.
“Drones” in context of modern battlefield are fancy guided missiles.
It’s a nothingburger
The key tonthe article isnt that it got through, ita that the thing that got through is cheap and mass producable. The modern drone battlefield has changed the landscape of war.
they’re taking a page from ukraine on asymmetric warfare and just following the playbook russia and ukraine have been escalating with drone warfare. and iran can get fiber optic from china just like russia.
this is something people aren’t understanding, the disparity in costs - sure western customers can shoot patriots at incoming, but if it’s a $12k shaheed the cost disparity is nosebleed, but you can’t NOT shoot at incoming because the costs of targets on the ground is also nosebleed expensive.
Fuck, iran bagged an E3 sentry awacs on the ground! Millions of dollars of STRATEGICALLY valuable asset, nuked on a fucking tarmac, because some dumbfuck decided to follow Israel into this shitshow.
I fucking hate the term “nothingburger”. Just lazy, dismissive bullshit. If you can’t see the significance of this, that’s on you.
