Sodium ion batteries have less energy density as opposed to Lithium ion (100-150 WH per Kg instead of 150-250). I’m curious how much these “wet” batteries improve that. The article doesn’t say.
Nonetheless, even if it’s not the new battery for your car, it could be useful as energy storage for the grid, storing green (solar) energy for the night, and desalinating seawater at the same time.
the strategy of retaining crystal interlayer water yielded a specific capacity of 280 mA h g−1 at 10 mA g−1, one of the highest capacities reported for SIB cathodes in literature.
All I could find. This isn’t a statement about capacity(?) Units are wrong(?)
Its worth noting how preliminary this research is. Currently these “batteries” are just jars with chemicals.
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2025/TA/D5TA05128B
https://www.rsc.org/suppdata/d5/ta/d5ta05128b/d5ta05128b2.mp4
mAh/g (milliamp-hours per gram) is essentially still a measurement of capacity, but in terms of current instead of power.
We can do a little dimensional analysis here to translate between them. Power = Current x Voltage, so you’d multiply this (Current x Time)/(Weight) value by the nominal voltage of the cell to get to (Power x Time)/(Weight).
Phone batteries are often specified in units of Current*Time (e.g. milliamp-hours), but I’m not completely sure why. I think it has to do with voltages being standardized for certain types of cells, so the only real variable in the battery capacity is the current.
Edit: rearranged some ideas to make more sense
I’m not completely sure why
I think it’s marketing
5000 mAh is much a bigger number than 19 Wh and marketing loves huge numbers
Kinda like BMW did with the i3.
In 2013 Tesla was selling a model with a 60 kWh battery so BMW had the genius idea to install a 20 kWh battery BUT refer to it as “60 Ah” battery.
Tesla introduced the 90 kWh battery? BMW responds with a 94 Ah battery (28 kWh)
Newest Tesla has 100 kWh battery now? BMW has 120 Ah battery (38 kWh)
“See? Higher number!”, says the marketing
And in order to have a comparable range number they had to implement heavy weight reduction techniques like using carbon fiber for the body, negating any cost saving from the smaller battery AND giving the owner a total loss after small collisions as it shatters instead of bending
multiply this (Current x Time)/(Weight) value by the nominal voltage of the cell to get to (Power x Time)/(Weight).
This is the part that annoys me. The nominal voltage could vary between different batteries. 200Ah/g means different capacity for a 6v battery verses a 48v battery. I’m guessing battery scientists are using standardized nominal voltages for these tests or are seeing the same Ah/g capacity at different voltages (that I may have simply missed in the paper because I skimmed it and I don’t claim any deeper knowledge on battery research)
And instead of charging them, you can drink them! Unlike Lithium Ion batteries, which you have to chew.
But can you drink them after they were charged?
And how does that affect the taste?
My dream is to taste lightning.
My dream is to taste lightning.
Should have checked out Benjamin Franklin’s dinner parties when you had a chance.
Its got electrolytes! It’s what plants crave!
Me: looking at plants after realizing that I’m full of ions
“KEEP IT IN YOUR PANTS!”
Sounds like a win/win!
My very uneducated understanding is that sodium batteries can be produced virtually anywhere.
Not every battery application needs to maximize energy density, so sodium batteries are good where that is the case.
I also did not read about sodium ion batteries characteristics versus lithium ion, so there might also be other use cases where sodium ion batteries are better.
No thermal runaway if I remember correct as those are not prone to exploding (unlike li-ion)
Well it’s a pretty big deal, especially for large power storage.
There is a branch of battery research that is only focused on grid storage. It’s the last piece to make solar and to a less extent wind unbeatably affordable.
In a home solar setup, batteries are the other half of the cost and have not fallen as fast as the cost of the panels themselves, the other half of the cost. For fully off grid setups, they quickly become the main cost.
Every week with the “miracle battery!” headlines. This has been going on for ages and I’m sick of it.
Sodium-ion batteries are not hype though, they are in production use in multiple industries already. They are generally superior to Lithium based batteries in all regards, with the exception of having a bit lower energy density. An equivalent LiFePO4 battery might be 70-80% of the size for the same storage. It’s not a big deal for large applications like cars and solar storage.
Yeah, the advantages of all these sodium batteries, in my mind, is that they are stable and rugged enough to build up a backbone of a energy storage system for a grid. I’m seriously thinking about them for my house, in the UK.
Also not nearly as much of a fire hazard.
Yes, I am very intrigued. For something the size of half a shipping container I could power my house for almost a month. This is of course fantasy because I don’t have $20,000 to throw down. But combine it with solar cells that have gotten really cheap and you could indefinitely power your house for next to nothing.
Cool.
If they have a bit lower energy density than Lithium batteries, then where does the claim that they store twice the energy come from?
Twice the energy than the previous sodium battery tech. Nowhere does it say its twice as good as Li-ion. That’s an assumption you made.
Sounds like it came from that article about the new kind of sodium batteries with vanadium that are doing that desalination business. I was describing the general technology rather than that specific new one in the article.
Right up there with “cause/cure for dementia found”
“Dyslexia for cure found!”
We found the cure for Alzheimer’s but can’t remember what it was. I think it began with a “c”. Who are you?
Tuesday.
It’s time for your nap, Mr President.
350 page study concludes some people spend too much time reading.
cure for dementia found"
The US government could use some of that these days.
Charged with fusion power! From space! Made from privately mined asteroids!
And it’s got electrolytes!
Desalinating water might be the best part. Usually, solar power has the downside of needing storage and desalination has the downside of big energy requirements. If you can do both at the same time, it’s a big win for dry climates with lots of sun
There is also the issue with the salt by itself in desalinisation. If it’s removed with water, you have to deal with that stuff. Table salt is really cheap and there is plenty of offer, so you can’t really economically clean it enough and package it for human consumption or industrial use. So what usually happens is that they dump it back at one moment or another. And that is a hard pollution, and can lead to dead zones around the desalinisation plants if not managed well enough. Being able to add it in a high demand product such as batteries takes all those hurdles away
Make it into bricks and build a pyramid somewhere really dry?
Could the excess sodium used for carbon sequestration? Sodium bicarbonate is baking soda but I don’t know what it could be used for aside from baking or if the energy to capture that carbon would even be a net positive.
They are not going to get the sodium from desalination, they will mine it because it’s cheaper.
Desalination sodium is free if you want the water
and more pure
Exactly, the desalination gimmick is bullshit for STEM ignorant hippies.
Countries like Saudi Arabia and UAE depend on it
TWICE AS MUCH COMPARED TO WHAT???
My left ball?
To answer your question we’ll need to conduct a series of electrical tests on your left ball. Please report to the lab as soon as possible, and wear loose pants.
Uh, can we do this experiment on someone else’s balls? Asking for a friend.
Of course. It is specifically froh42’s left balls that we will be experimenting on.
Oooh, kinky.
You really need a statistical baseline on a population of left nuts.
Should set up a PPV website to offset costs of the study.
Going to need a control ball relative to the variable ball to calibrate your measurements.
Compared to a non-hydrous sodium vanadium oxide system.
Yep, I’m just annoyed by lazy headlines.
YOU WON’T BELIEVE
Actor Joins Film“They said I wouldn’t believe it.”
When the author gives the reader too much credit lol
I can only hope these can actually hit commercialization, unlike most new battery technologies that never leave the lab.
I can only hope one day people will stop repeating reddit clichés
We are close to finding out why some liquids are blue.
The Institute of Sciencey Things
The Gargamel Research Institute
You can throw any battery in the ocean. The better question is should you?
Who else is going to feed the eels?
That face is glorious. My mood has skyrocketed.
Sodium Ion is a real game changer. But I doubt it will compete with Lithium Ion on energy density anytime soon.
But that’s not necessary to make major changes in the power grid. Solar and wind is already cheapest form of energy generation even considering the expense of Lithium to store the energy when renewables aren’t generating. If you’re just installing stationary battery banks, you don’t care that much about the energy density as you would for a battery in a car or phone. Set up banks of cheap sodium ion batteries strategically and not only do you have plenty of power stored for when it’s not sunny or windy, you may avoid widespread power outages when power lines are downed.
Sodium ion has the same “energy density”, but lower density because of its honeycomb structure.
This story is actually about a sodium-vanadium wet battery, not sodium ion. NaVn batteries are a wet flow battery that have been around for a while, they are intended for stationary power use.
New tit ion battery generates fifteen times the power and shits butter pecan ice cream. And, like every other battery chemistry there’s ever been a news article for, isn’t real and will never enter production.
I see that sentiment on every battery news, but it sure seems to me like battery tech is advancing quite drastically. Are there over-hyped headlines and articles pumping up tech that isn’t anywhere near completion? Sure, but meanwhile EVs have become a thing, house batteries, etc.
Sodium Ion already does 5000+ cycles. Adding Vanadium is not a scalable material. It is very expensive. 400 cycles steady is not useful information because it needs to do much more. They didn’t state a wh/kg density. This is probably not a viable research vector, but “big Vanadium” has proposed a rental model to make Vanadium more scarce for other applications. Flow batteries (a fuel cell with tanks of electrolytes) provides an ultra easy way of recycling/selling the vanadium for traditional uses. Battery rental that forces returning it could be viable.
Right up there with the batteries that would contain about 1 kg of silver in them. Even if they didn’t become insanely expensive you’d have tweakers foaming at the mouth to steal your batteries.
Bullshit headline. It neither desalinates water nor it’s better than Li-ion, because you know physics is pretty hard to cheat
you use grid power, not a miracle
TNT has 1162 Wh/kg ratio.
These new lithium-ion batteries get to 300-400Wh/kg range.
We are hitting the limit what is doable with energy density. Do you really want to carry 100g of TNT in your pocket or few tons of TNT in vehicle going 100km/h.
Of course things are not directly comparable, but ball parks.
i’d say stability is more important than energy density
like gasoline has more than 10x the energy density than tnt and we’re perfectly fine with many kg of that on a vehicle going 100km/h
a fully fueled vehicle is the equivalent of ~600kg of TNT, but it’s very stable whilst TNT is not
That is true, but my small EV the batteries are 500kg, same car with combustion engine only has 40L fuel tank.
Stability is important, but lithium-ion ain’t really that stable either. Still waiting some solid state to get made.
Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFe-PO) are actually really stable. Way less likely to catch fire in thermal runaway and don’t lose capacity as easily.
They just aren’t very energy dense, so you need more weight per wh. They also operate at a lower voltage per cell which means they charge slower.
They are used in short to med range EVs already, but the lower capacity makes it impractical to put enough for longer range EVs.
As an aside, I would argue that for the majority of people a large capacity EV battery is a bit of a waste. Mine is ~70Kwh, give or take. In optimal conditions my car estimates 240-250mi at 100%. Over the winter it’s showing anywhere from 140-180mi at 80%.
I moved cross country right after getting it and drove it 1000 miles. It took a bit longer, than it would in a gas car, but it was doable. Just have to plan segments to get to the next charger and try to charge to 100% with level 2 charging (240v AC) if you can when you stop for the night.
Sodium ion is generally much more stable.
Yeah but firewood is like 5 kwh/kg, or 4 times the energy density of TNT. We drive around with wood in our cars all the time.
TNT has 1162 Wh/kg ratio.
How do you recharge TNT?
We are hitting the limit what is doable with energy density.
I mean, we’re definitely running into a problem of how you build a battery without also building a bomb. But the entire point of TNT is rapid thermal expansion. The point of a battery is very low voltage steady release of electrical charge.
I might also note that C4 has around 6 Mwh/kg. A bit of applied chemistry can go a long way to improving energy efficiency. And that’s before you take advantage of geometry to focus pressure, via a shaped charge.
Point being, there’s a lot of clever ways to juice a lemon. We’re a long way from the end of the road on battery improvement.
deleted by creator
Kinda, yes? Phones already do so much, why not one additional feature to deter theft.
We’ve got a lot of that going around in the USA right now.
Man this title reminded me of an old animation involving iPhone and some Android phone, lemme go find…
The part about transforming into a jet and flying you to an island reminded me of the title.
Doesnt matter if the capacity is even less than sodium batteries.
We’ll see.
What do they do with the Chlorine though?
They run a pool service
🤨 Is this a reference to what I think it’s a reference to?
Clean chickens.
