Looks like the Ghostrunner developers also have an issue with paid mods running off their IP.
Learn your lesson : Don’t sell mods.
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Sim racing is full of paid mods, and it’s working out fine. We acknowledge when someone puts effort into development, probably because majority of sim racers aren’t teens and have worked jobs.
If a mod marketplace works for some games, that’s cool, but I think CDPR has the right to not approve of that model when it comes to their IP. An open source model benefits everyone and can also be viable for mod developers :)
An open source model benefits everyone and can also be viable for mod developers
Sure, in the sense that you get fewer quality mods. Is that what you meant by “benefits everyone”?
Sim games are sorta their own beast when it comes to mods.
Oh really? Why can’t other games be the same beast when it comes to mods? Does the VR mod take sales away from CDPR?
In sim games you usually get the game and then get a vehicle you want to specialize in. You may put hundreds or thousands of hours into that vehicle and you know the ins and outs.
Mod development wise you may have to model the vehicle from the ground up. The vehicle has to have functioning gauges, be tuned to handle and behave like the vehicle in real life, fail like the real thing and basically BE the real thing. Take DCS for example. The game itself is actually free but the modules are paid. The detailed modules can go for around $70 or so dollars like the F16. You can use the real life flight manual for the F16 to learn how to use it in game. Train sims are similar. If you are real particular about a specific train you can find the module for it and expect probably pretty damn good detail down to nameplates and specifications
You arent going to get that sort of involvement in a game like Skyrim, Fallout, or Cyberpunk. You could maybe go down to that level of detail but that level of detail may not be able to be appreciated in a game that doesent simulate things like aerodynamics or how tire grip changes depending on temperature.
Mods are and should be a passion project. The moment you implement mods as income stream people and companies are going to exploit the shit out of it. See: Roblox, Skyrim, etc
In games you usually get the game and then get a mod that you want to play. You may put hundreds or thousands of hours into that mod.
Mod development wise you may have to create models from the ground up. A mod has to have functioning logic, be fit to the game but modify it in a significant way, feel like a change to the game.
You are seriously trying to say that a VR mod doesn’t take effort to build?
You can use the real life flight manual for the F16 to learn how to use it in game. If you are real particular about a specific train you can find the module for it and expect probably pretty damn good detail down to nameplates and specifications
Irrelevant. The only relevant thing regarding the quality-price consideration is whether a player is ready to pay for a particular mod.
The moment you implement mods as income stream people and companies are going to exploit the shit out of it. See: Roblox, Skyrim, etc
Arbitrary nothingburger claims. You just described how paid mods work in sims, so why don’t people ‘exploit the shit’ out of mods in sims?
When will people learn to do these kinds of things anonymously?
This guy wanted to make money from this mod and put it behind a paywall, that’s the only reason it got taken down.
This seems like a good idea, but a related question I’ve been wondering about is, what is the best way to anonymously run a software project facing this type of threat model, when you also want that software to be accessible to people? Does anyone know about any tips or resources for this? Is there some kind of darknet github? How do you do social media or collect donations/payment? Also, are there any good examples of projects that did this right?
I’m not an expert, but I2P and Tor should allow people to host things anonymously.
Monero can be used as an anonymous payment method.
Realistically impossible. If you want to actually make any real amount of money, have any real reach or have an actually functional product.
Which end of the day is the entire point for the assholes pay walling mods. They arnt part of the community they are trying to profit off the community.
A donation jar, a side patreon, merch there are endless ways to monitize your work. But trying to do it in the shadows just because you know your being a shit stain, is never goanna work out well.
No one’s forcing you to share your mod, if you think you deserve money or you won’t release it. Then just don’t release it.
Paid for mods have never, will never, and can never. Be a good idea or healthy for a modding community.
I feel like there are also other potential reasons to want to publish software anonymously though, even if monetization is not the goal. For instance, to keep it game related, there have been plenty of noncommercial fan projects that get shut down mainly just because the companies that own the IP are run by assholes.
How comes paid mods work out fine in sim racing then?
Assetto Corsa has tons of paid mods, along with tons of free mods, and the game developer Kunos is one of very few profitable game devs in sim racing. Why haven’t paid mods ruined the modding scene and bankrupted the company?
now you’re making me think of a future with a “Silk Road” for game mods. Very cyberpunk.
I don’t understand this at all.
rockstar did the same thing to the VR mods that were made for GTA games.
the guys are developing mods that are going to make me want to purchase and play the game. why is that a problem?
I don’t understand intellectual property
In this case it’s cause the modder is charging money for the mod, I think CD Project Red even offered to allow it to exist if he stopped charging before this, so I would argue this is on the modder
I don’t understand what difference it makes to CDPR. if the guy makes a few bucks developing mods for the game, then he can spend more of his time developing the mod, and making mods for other games. right? in what way is it harming CDPR
He always had the option of using a donate option instead of locking it behind a paywall. CDPR tried getting him to go that route and he basically told them to pound sand so here we are.
Property rights get all sorts of goofy when money is involved. If homey had released the mod for free and just had a patreon or whatev on the side, no one would care, but because he was charging for it, CDPR is obigated to vigorously defend their copyright.
Not exactly, they made him remove the RDR 2 vr mod. the GTA is still up on github.
this is a terms of service issue, but they’re using dmca (copyright) to enforce.
he technically has a case for selling, but defending it would be too expensive. LR also isn’t socially adept so he’s self-sabatoged himself too.
In a considerably more ideal world than the one we live in, all games, not just mods, would be free and everyone could just donate to developers of games they found worth the money.
It’ll probably take a long time for that world to materialize, since it’d require all corporations and billionaires to disappear forever first.
In the meantime, either make free mods with an option to donate, or make your own games. Personally I think it’s a waste of time and effort to spend so much of your life on mods for AAA games. I could understand if it was just for fun, but this guy seems to treat this way more seriously.
It’ll probably take a long time for that world to materialize, since it’d require all corporations and billionaires to disappear forever first.
It’d require universal basic income first because game devs would have to work unpaid and may only make some money if they’re lucky. We know from open source software that 99% of people don’t donate shit.
I mean, yeah. Maybe not exactly UBI, but my ‘considerably more ideal’ scenario assumes we don’t have to spend most of our lives just to make a living.
it wasn’t a waste of time and effort because he got paid a living wage doing it at least until now though.
I don’t get why modders shouldn’t be allowed to ask for money. Do players just want people to work for free? Why should the game developers get to set the rules when mods often contain no content/IP from the game devs?
CDPR really likes to shoot themselves in the leg, meanwhile Dota and DayZ 🤑
Neither of those was a paid mod though.
He made a VR mod for the game and they are suing him? Kiss my ass. He is the true cyberpunk.
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Luke Ross and his mods suck.
Fuck all the DMCA trolls, that guy isn’t hurting any of their profits. He made dozens of games work in VR that never had a VR option, which nobody else has done for those games. It’s not unfair for him to make money from his unique work when the demand is there.
Don’t rely on making money off of paid mods that require use others IP and then throw a giant tantrum garnering more Streisand attention to yourself that you’re making money off of paid mods using other people’s IP by publicly throwing a tantrum disrespecting the wishes of a reasonable request by the developer that says “Don’t make a paid mod for our game but here’s an alternative so you can still make money but still respect our developers’ desire to keep mods free.”
Just a thought.
The RealVR mod does not include any files from the copyrighted games, therefore does not use anyone else’s IP. It obviously makes reference to the games’ copyrighted content, in order to inform the public of what games it works with. Basically the same concept as an aftermarket addon to a device that is not licensed by the original equipment manufacturer, similar to something like a non-Apple accessory for an iPhone.
Here’s the thing, he and the other modders that are doing this are very much so running a fine line here. They’re modifying the game’s code, sure it’s in memory, but it’s their code they’re modifying to get things to work. It’s not just relying on using existing API calls that are open for them to use. Just because they’re not modifying the files on disk vs modifying in-memory doesn’t mean they’re not using their IP, they certainly are and there’s precedent that this type of action falls under the DMCA.
Take in point that Riot and Bungie and many other companies have DMCA’ed and sued cheat makers and hey those guys were also just selling mods for their games. They also weren’t selling any files from their copyrighted games either they were just selling a framework to inject their software into their games. So question is are you also saying that Riot and Bungie are also DMCA sue-happy people who are Debbie downers that are preventing coders from making money?
Your simplistic, it’s just a phone case, isn’t analogous here.
Don’t get me wrong, IP law is tricky and IANAL but again, when a company politely asks you to respect their ToS and not sell a mod using their IP and you throw a tantrum and manage to piss off your community, well good luck buddy.
On the other hand, I see modders getting burned out and practically abused by the gaming community.
As much as I love free game mods, some of these mods are massive multi year efforts that are practically a game themselves.
I can’t begrudge them wanting to make a couple bucks. I don’t like it…
I do donate to some mods that I particularly love, but I can’t realistically donate to every mod I use.
I can fucking begrudge them. If they don’t like to don’t fucking make it or share it.
You can and are free to make art for the sake of your own enjoyment. But fuck off if you feel like your entitled to get paid for working off the back of someone else’s effort just because you wasted your own time on it.
If you wanted to make money then go make your own thing for that purpose.
No one is entitled to get paid for their efforts. And no one is entitled to be allowed to make money off someone else’s labor.
Two brain cells rubbed together should make it really obvious that wasting years of your life on something someone else made to try to make money is a bad idea.
We all take a risk when we do something new and hope to make enough money to make it all worth it. No short cuts.
“Hurtig their profits” isnt rhe point
Earning money on an IP he doesnt own, is the point…
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. a guy develops a mod that makes more people want to play the game that it depends on. he wants a few bucks so he can keep developing mods. He’s not hurting the sales of the product that his mod depends on.
nothing is stopping someone else from developing a free alternative
