I am considering moving to Germany and was told that regions in the south are more conservative, so much so that an acquaintance ex-pat said they would never want to live there. Looking online there are some sources to support this notion but nothing concrete. I am wanting to move mostly because I loved the country and the people I met while traveling (specifically in Munich and Freiburg) but was hoping to land somewhere that queer folks are more accepted. I didn’t get any bad vibes while traveling but that was nearly a decade ago now.
Another German friend recommended moving to Berlin for these reasons and I’m wondering if German conservative is anything remotely close to US conservative. The conservatives near where I live now fly Trump and confederate flags, love to put those “I did that” Biden stickers on the gas pumps when prices go up, and the local schoolboard managed to pass anti-trans bathroom policies that affected something like 5 students in the entire district. Is it anything like this in parts of Germany?
German here. Lived in Hamburg and Munich for about half my life each. They call Bavaria the Texas of Germany, but that’s just in relation to the rest of Germany politically. German conservatism is nothing like American conservatism, thank God. Right-wing disinformation cancer is spreading in Germany, like it is anywhere else (AFD in the east). Any LGBTQ folks don’t need to worry in any big cities. I’d recommend Munich over Berlin, but that’s personal preference (Berlin is like Germany’s London, loud, dirty, exciting, more crime than any other part of Germany, which is still less than most places in the US). Like, you won’t ‘feel’ the difference between Hamburg and Munich politically. In Berlin you might find a few more people openly displaying their left or right leaning tendencies. It’s also much cheaper than Munich, not sure if that matters.
That’s encouraging to hear. I’m just worried about moving across the world to a place I really loved only to get crooked looks from neighbors when they see my partner and I together, which is exactly the sort of thing I want to get away from. I’m a software developer so I’ll likely need to move to a city to find work regardless, but really do enjoy the more rural settings. Thanks for the insight :)
How is your German? In Berlin you’ll be fine with English. In the other big cities, you’ll already notice less proficiency. You’ll be fine, but you’ll notice it from time to time and English speaking jobs will be few and far between. Rural areas are hopeless lol
You know I went to Europe for the first time thinking I was hopeless when it came to foreign languages. But after spending a week in Germany I could use basic greetings, numbers and was starting to understand some common phrases; a very fun experience honestly. I regret not continuing to learn formally, but if we commit to Germany then I’ll have a few years to take lessons beforehand.
Ideally I want to live rural and work remote, same situation I have here, but I understand that is a rare privilege and hard to find everywhere.
It is more conservative than the north but German conservatism isn’t quite as vile as the American flavor.
“Conservative” politicians here want to keep taxes for the wealthy low, suck off car manufacturers, keep marijuana banned (“it’s forbidden because it’s illegal”). In Germany, trying to enact an LGBTQ genocide is not really an ambition of the conservatives but of the fascist AfD which is strongest in eastern Germany but in recent polls got an uncomfortable 20% nationwide.
“Conservative” people in southern Germany will go to church, give you a weird side-eye if you work on a Sunday or have dyed hair, wear checkered shirts and get shitfaced at the biweekly state fair. Most are quite nice personally.
The towns and cities are way more progressive than the countryside and especially Munich which has had a socdem mayor for quite a while now. Hell the last csd had like half a million people, that’s nearly a third of the population.
people in southern Germany will go to church, give you a weird side-eye if you work on a Sunday or have dyed hair, wear checkered shirts and get shitfaced at the biweekly state fair.
Best summary of south Germany in one sentence
It’s much the same here, although some cities are more welcoming than others. The hard part is finding a rural or semi rural area that is also accepting but near to a city that isn’t also white suburbia
Whats wrong with checkered shirt?
If you also like to consider other cities, Cologne might be something for you. It is known for it’s gay and rainbow communities. It even advertises LGBT+ scene events on it’s home page.
If you consider the area near Cologne and Düsseldorf along the Rhine, there are big cities but it gets more rural once you get further from the river. Jobs should be available there as well. Unfortunately, jobs without at least a fraction of office presence time are rare, even in IT.
Unless Munich, in this part of Germany, you walk into a bar a stranger but will find someone to talk to. People are warm and welcoming here. I cannot judge the English language proficiency though as a native. Besides, the local German accent can be just as puzzling here as in Bavaria. 🤣
I went from north to south on my trip originally and I think I encountered exactly one German local who didn’t speak at least decent English the whole time. Also good to know about the accents! We thought we had learned how to say excuse me quite well but tried it in the south and got weird looks lol
I think I’m general you are right, the south is more Conservative. This ist probably because the south is rich. Most Money in Germany is produced in Bavaria, Baden-Württemberg (where I live) and Hesse. They cling to their money very badly, hence the conservative mindset. That being said, there are very progressive hotspots. The Capitals for example (Frankfurt, Munich, Stuttgart) are very open for differing views and Social political ideas. But you can go even better. If you look for City’s with high Student concentrations you go more and more left. I am from Tübingen and this place hates conservatives. Anti LGBTQ Ideas must fear for ther physical protection. The same thing will be true in Freiburg and Konstanz in BW but I am sure there are places in the other two country’s aswell. Can you give us an estimate where to go and how progressive the people should be? Then we will a place, I am sure.
Partner is looking to go to university (for law) and I’ll be either looking for a programmer position or trying to figure out a freelancer situation. What I’m seeing is that pretty much anywhere in Germany is a step up from the sinking ship that is the US right now in terms of conservative insanity. I prefer a quiet life mostly spent at home with pets and family with the option to go out on the town for a good meal and fun once in awhile or attend a festival a few times a year. Nightlife is preferred as well, sun bad
Freiburg seems like a good choice i live there currently. Nightlife is not crazy tho, just a few clubs and after midnight most is closed. There are regular city festivals and lakes to swim nearby. Also its the city with the most sun in Germany ocer the year.
We stayed in Freiburg for a week and loved every minute of it. It was our first choice until someone started me on this idea of the south being conservative. I understand cities in general are more liberal, especially university towns, but I don’t want to live in a haven surrounded by bigotry once you leave the city proper
Edit: Im not saying that’s what Freiburg is, I hope it isn’t.
Don’t worry the American conservative, is not comparable to German conservative. Right in Europe is more comparable to center Left in the US political spectrum. And Freiburg is more left than right for sure. The most right political spectrum in Germany you will find in east Germany Saxony.
As a SW-German, I’d say it is way more a rural vs. urban thing. In the greater Stuttgart area f.i. don’t worry about openly living a gay lifestyle. If you live out in the woods, it might be different, but not necessarily so.
That being said, SW’eners are generally way more conservative towards any kind of “fun” or “flamboyant“ things - legacy of the very pietist history here.
I would say that around Fasching time, things get pretty fun & flamboyant, even in the rural areas of BW.
Well, that’s your opinion….
Well I have seen some pretty conservative farmer types get on the village stage and dance in drag, but maybe you have been to some Fasching celebrations that were tame?
I found Fasching - at least for me - had almost always had kind of a staged and unnatural feel to it. It definitely does not meet my expectations for a liberal, welcoming vibe that encourages self-love and -expression. But that maybe just me…
Thank you for that thoughtful explanation. It’s a perspective I hadn’t considered.
As the others already said, it’s more a rural vs urban thing but yeah the south and especially bavaria is more conservative than the north or south (but the most conservative like you discribed with the stickers and all are living in east Germany except Berlin, cause Berlin is mostly a left oriented stand alone city). If you’re non white there would be at least a lot of staring, sometimes worse (spitting, shouting,…) mostly everywhere in Germany.
If you consider munich it shouldn’t be a problem as long as you don’t live in a village around the city. Cause Munich itself has a left political party for I don’t know how many years. That’s why mostly every other south Bavarian outside of Munich has the opinion that Munich doesn’t count as Bavaria. And as mentioned by others before Munich has some good queer stuff and the pride parade is one of the biggest in Germany and EU. I think this year around 500k people came and celebrated (Munich itself has ~1.4 million residents), but Munich doesn’t compare with Berlin(east), cologne(west) or Hamburg (north), but it’s still pretty good and the nature around munich is great!
So I would say if you really wanna live in a city it’s nothing like the crazy people you seem to have right now, but it’s not all happy sunshine as well and especially munich is expensive and one big bummer are the German people as well (cause we’re so stiff and not really open to someone new).
The south is generally very save and the cities are quite left-leaning. On the countryside and in smaller towns and cities you do see shit like you mentioned, though. Your Biden are our Greens and Habeck or Baerbock in that case, but definitely the same shit. Not as blatantly and openly as in the US, though.
If you care to look outside the box of your known cities: Cologne (like Munich) for it’s openness regarding primarily gay folks. Since the increased popularity of LGBT+, the acceptance spreads to that forms to. Take this official city home page site as example.
As already said in another comment, the area near the Rhine (especially near Cologne and Düsseldorf) gets mute rural quickly
i am from the north…real north…born 200m off the coast…the “conservativism” of the south is insane to me. switzerland and austria are even worse. it is not really about being a conaervative but that it is their coping mechanism to function as facists in a democracy.
for example in Badenwürtenberg there is a green minister whose perspectives on working with nationalists or how to tackle climate change are trump-level dumb/conservative.
over the years i got to meet several new friends that for various reasons had to start their migration to german in bavaria…and ALL of them were shocked once they were free to enter the civilized parts of germany. one girl had to go to school in munich and after she was free never went to bavaria again because of the constant hate. like facists in the US feed off triggering libs, tze south loves giving the impression equality is just because they allow it.
…but south east is worse…so, maybe dont go there.
