UBI needs to be combined with rent and price controls if it is not, inflation will eat the benefits inside of a 5-year period and money will be siphoned up the chain.
Otherwise I am all for it.
Yeah I talked about that a bit in a previous comment.
Oop I read through the top comments and probably missed it! ^^
I disagree, rent and price controls are not the correct tool.
Land value taxes are the correct method to solve that issue.
I don’t entirely follow? I’m totally open to alternatives to making sure the money stays where it is, I just don’t immediately understand the mechanism.
A proper Land value tax is a way of preventing owners from making any money off the appreciation of the value of land while still being profitable to construct or renovate if it adds value. It significantly reduces if not outright eliminates housing as an investment.
Land value taxes only apply to the value of the land itself, not the buildings, and therefore desirable areas with high land value taxes have a significant incentive to sell and be redeveloped with density which spread a that tax among a larger number of tenants.
The biggest downside is that it completely destroys existing equity. Which is both how it makes everything affordable again, and is also likely why it won’t pass as a policy for many years.
I genuinely like the idea of higher density, as much as I like driving, having a city that’s walkable and with good transit (which density incentives) would be a dream.
My current city is a sprawling suburb and it’s almost an hour by bus to do a trip that takes 10 minutes by car.
Also thank you for expanding on this!
im FOR IT
Same
Yes, I support it. Science has shown the government can afford it and it will save them money in the long run. If society has the resources to ensure everyone’s basic needs are met, do it.
The argument against it is that people won’t work if they aren’t forced to. I think people want to work. This would enable people to have their basic needs met first so they can build a career comfortably.
I believe it should happen and I believe it eventually will happen in Canada, but it will take a lot longer than it should.
I’d add that, when you look through history… Every major scientific advancement has been made by people not worried about paying for their daily life.
They had time to think about hard problems
Yes. When 10 people control more wealth than the rest of us combined while families working 60+ hours a week cant put food on the table. Then yes, the system is rigged against the middle class and we deserve a fighting chance
The top 10 wealthiest people in the world only have a fortune of around 1.8 Trillion dollars.
The estimated global personal wealth for everyone in the world is around 450 Trillion dollars.
The top 10% of the world controls a massively disproportionate amount of wealth, but definitely not the top 10 people/families.
We should not have UBI as that implicitly continues the need for money. Instead we should work towards a world with Universal Basic Resources, or even not so basic resources, if it can be automated.
Currency isn’t the problem, and you really need to keep that concept separate from the issues that happen within Capitalism.
Currency is just a convenient method to measure and exchange resources.
Very few people desire an allocated home and weekly rations of flour, chicken, and butter. If you instead give them a list of things they can choose from, and assign ratios and a limit for total resources, all you’ve done is create a new currency.
Currency is prone to inflation. See other posts here about that.
That’s where I am too.
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I agree we need a universal basic income, I refer to it as “automation compensation”. It only works if corporations and investors are banned from owning residential homes. Also we need to construct an abundance of efficient high rises to ensure there’s more than enough availability. In order for basic necessities like housing, electricity, water, and food are met, we need the infrastructure plan to guarantee availability. Otherwise, a UBI will just drive up costs because owners and sellers will account for that extra money people can spend.
Messaging is so important these days. “Blue collar dollars”
The words “universal” and “income” are so charged now. A lot of people dismiss it immediately as “unearned”.
Thats why I think just doing universal health care, universal internet, universal electricity would be an ideal way to transition imho. Just start by providing the basics. We’ve invested so much in energy in this country in the last 2 centuries and we all get exploited on it. doesn’t have to be a blank check form.
Yes, but it needs to be paired with an aggressive ban on any form of rent-seeking.
Against both because I’m a communist against income and because its almost always paired with eliminating almost all help programs and with a suggested amount that when those two are combined will arguably make things worse for those in the most need,
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There have been UBI trial runs in the EU, they usually dont. Once peoples needs are met, they tend to want to want to continue doing things as they are. If they wern’t buying fancy cars, UBI isnt going to change that, and if a car is a need for that individual, then the system is working as intended.
Plus, the thing every counter argument to UBI seems to forget is that not everyone will be responsible with the funds or onboard with the program. The system will need to have to buffer for abuse and poor habbits, but unlike now, an unwillingnes/inability to participate in the workforce does not mean poverty. Plus a well designed system will help people use it effectivly and get them the help they need (see the current failures of the US mental health system).
Only works if we limit the amount of wealth single persons are allowed to hoard.
I say that anyone with a networth over 10M should have all other income over that taxed 100%
Same for companies, cap them at 1 billion
This will allow capitalism yet spread the wealth
Yes, this requires more details, of course, but this should be a basic rule. There is no right to own more than 10 million in wealth
I generally agree, but rather than making it a specific number, I think we should tie it to some multiple of the poverty line or the average income of the lowest 10% or something like that. That way, if the rich want to earn more, they have to make things materially better for the poorest people in society; and if they don’t do enough, the government takes that money to do it for them.
Also to environment too. But first we should strip out power from politicians, current system wont work
I think that focusing everything on UBI and dismantling all other forms of welfare are going to create massive inequalities in society that few people anticipate.
For instance, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are effectively UBI free zones in some major metros with decent economies.
“UBI Free” doesn’t make sense. Everyone gets a UNIVERSAL basic income.
If you mean there would be areas of major metros where people who are not employed cannot live, those already exist.
My opinion is that our politicians would prefer fascism.
I’ve recently starting thinking about current artists, specifically musicians. A current crop of them come from money. I’ll use the example of Gracie Abrams, daughter of JJ Abrams. IMHO, she is definitely talented but she got her leg up from her dad being in the entertainment industry and, more importantly, never had to worry about money. How many other artists and musicians are we not hearing about because they didn’t come from money. She is one example of many.
I am a firm believer in UBI. Basic sustenance income should be available to everyone. That wouldn’t solve this problem, but it certainly would give a chance for someone with artistic talent to work on their art and while still being able to survive.
Right now, I’m listening to three very talented young people writing original songs in my garage, who will, even if successful, put in significantly more work for significantly less recognition simply because I’m not JJ Abrams.
I whole-heartedly agree.
tax the rich, feed the poor, subsidize birth control.
I think I’d rather see a realistic minimum wage. But regardless of UBI or min wage, none of it will be worth much if things like medical care, education, child care, housing costs, etc. don’t get brought under control. The leeches will just jack up prices for more record profits.
We have a realistic minimum wage, but not everything that needs doing generates enough income to pay it. Taking care of your elderly mother as the simplest example but also firefighting apparently. It regularly blows my mind how much is done by volunteers. We could do so much more if you knew life’s basics were going to be covered regardless of how you help society
That and many jobs will be automated. The next five years will be brutal. The sudden rise of surveillance is one way they attempt to control the fallout as the current working units (us) are decommissioned.
Conceptually I’m 100% for it. In reality I’m sure theres going to be unintended consequences that im not seeing.
If it can be made to work like it sounds like it should, we need it and we need it bad.
Unintended consequences, or just ones you aren’t aware of?
There’s lots of known things that will happen, both good and bad.
- A significant de-urbanization would be likely, similar to what we saw with remote work during COVID
- There would be a drop in certain types of crime
- A small chunk of the population would become absolute shut-ins, and likely become very mentally unwell
- Divorce would probably go up
- The birth rate would likely also go up
