• davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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    4 months ago

    We’re very butthurt about our failed color revolution, and we’re very concerned that we can’t even manage to make lemonade out of our lemon.

    Westerners, every time:

  • narwhal@mander.xyz
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    4 months ago

    The people that try to equate fake genocide with real genocide are like the school staff punishing bully and victim alike. They are enabling the abuses. Also it must be deeply insulting to the real victims in gaza.

  • SpiceDealer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    4 months ago

    (Mass dislikes time!)

    Yes, the US does evil shit in the Middle East. Killing brown-skinned practitioners of the other Abrahamic religion overseas is an American tradition.

    That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.

    You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another.

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      4 months ago

      If not reeducation, which method would you prefer China use to combat the foreign radical Wahhabism and terrorism spread by the CIA in Xinjiang for the purpose of regional destabilization and regime change?

      We all know how the US chose to implement its own war on terror. Muslim majority countries in the Middle East support China’s method.

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        Vocational training and extraordinary rendition & torture at a black site are exactly the same. You fool. You absolute baffoon.

    • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.

      Previously:

      The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.

      The only countries pushing this narrative are the “always the same mapimperial core countries, which just so happen to be largely the same ones supporting Israel’s genocide.

      Almost no predominantly-Muslim country buys the Uyghur genocide narrative, because they know it’s bullshit, because they talked to the Uyghurs themselves.
      https://twitter.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330 #HRC51 | Draft resolution A/HRC/51/L.6 on holding a debate on the situation of human rights in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of #China, was REJECTED.

      • TankieTanuki [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        4 months ago

        The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.

        Much like how after China foiled their color revolution attempt in 1989, the CIA had to pivot to the “Tinyman Square Massacre” narrative.

        • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          Very much like that, and they’re still getting mileage out of it with no effort, because Lemmitors get an endorphin rush every time they do the CIA’s work for free, the brave defenders of freedom & democracy that they are 🤦‍♂️

    • Evilsandwichman [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      4 months ago

      That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.

      But it’s not a fact though? You can’t imagine up some fictional scenario and then just claim it’s a fact; words have meanings

    • robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]@hexbear.net
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      4 months ago

      this post isn’t cheering on china, it’s shitting on the west’s hypocrisy.

      also you might want to look up who funded the wahabis who groomed the terrorists that the crackdown is a response to.

    • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      "Yes, the US does evil shit in the Middle East. Killing brown-skinned practitioners of the other Abrahamic religion overseas is an American tradition.

      That still doesn’t change the fact that Iraq is building weapons of mass destruction to attack the USA.

      You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another."

      Seriously, how many times do you need to hear it before you western chauvanists realise it’s not about “good or bad”, it’s about trustworthy or untrustworthy.

    • darkernations@lemmygrad.ml
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      3 months ago

      TLDR: please read Against Empire by Michael Parenti

      What would it look like if one wanted to believe the narrative of the most destructive and most parasitic country the world has ever seen against its designated enemy targets?

      Remember this country is responsible for:

      • coups, assasination of leaders and electoral interference in most of the countries of the Global South
      • the most direct wars
      • the most proxy wars
      • Military encriclement of all its designated enemies
      • sanctions (half a million deaths per year as per Lancet)
      • enforcing economic Shock Doctrine wherever it can
      • funding and propping up fascist regimes whereever it can (remember the original 9-11 was the coup and murder against Allende)
      • racketeering all over the global south if they dont bend the knee to IMF structural changes, which itself causes massive localised underdevelopment, human superexploitation, and resource extraction for US benefit. Read it as mass social murder of millions of brown folks. Every fucking year.
      • colour revolutions
      • propping up NGOs all over the global south to destablise them
      • 700 military bases around the world to police this
      • funding, arming and giving a political cover to genocide in Palestine as we speak

      And more by the only country to drop nuclear bombs on civilian populations. Twice.

      No other country in the history of the world comes close to the barbarism.

      And that’s just outside of its borders. Let’s not get into the mass incacerations of the descendants of the slaves it built its wealth on, the ongoing mass poverty, food insecurity, the world’s most expensive police state, the mass surveillance, the child labour, the concentration camps of migrant workers, the daily lynchings by its civil society, the monthly public school masacres due to a degnerate culture of patriarchy and racism, the forcing the orginal peoples of the land to reservations where the life expectancy is 40 years, the ongoing redlining, mass medical bankruptcies etc etc.

      Whereas China: https://thetricontinental.org/studies-1-socialist-construction/

      Think about the people in that article^. Are they truly less free than the folks in the paragraph before the link?

      Others (and I above) have given resources to links why what you said about China is wrong. The problem with that approach is you have already bought into the narrative of the US empire of its designated enemy. I instead will point you in the direction that the US empire is way way worse than even the likes of what Chomsky let’s on:

      • Washington Bullets - Prashad
      • Blackshirts and Reds - Parenti
      • Patriots, Traitors and Empires - Gowan
      • Killing Hope - Blum
      • Against Empire - Parenti

      Let’s start with where we agree with: US = bad. Then please consider reading the above 5 books. Then maybe, just maybe one day in the future there is a sliver of hope you may consider why the “neither washington nor beijing” is still very much pro-washington.

      Yeah, as a westerner on the global stage I am asking you to engage in class betrayal.

      Best of luck.

  • rando895 [she/her]@lemmygrad.ml
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    4 months ago

    Yeah like frig China. Why aren’t you killing them? Whats wrong with you? Clearly the most morally correct thing to do is exterminate them, what are you trying to hide?

    • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.ml
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      4 months ago

      The US liberates muslims (from the mortal coil) while China enslaves muslims (by making them part of the productive forces).

  • Broadfern@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    “Our genocides are the good genocides” thinking persisting this long is baffling. Even more disturbing is these people are in power.

    • shawn1122@sh.itjust.works
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      4 months ago

      Is it though? People hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe. No one wants to believe that their privileges are predicated on suffering elsewhere.

      Westerners in particularly have always been very “heads in the sand” when it comes to modern history but it’s not surprising. Every nation struggles with the darker aspects of their history.

  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Listen, I’m sure there’s a very good reason why we have radically different policies towards Afghani Muslims and Uyghur Muslims, despite the fact they share a border and a litany of cultural practices.

  • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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    4 months ago

    So concerned that we bribed foreign terrorists to blow shit up in Xinjiang, forcing China to spend on education and job programs there.

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      These people, who don’t know shit about fuck, are absolutely sure that they already know everything that needs to be known, and that we don’t know shit about fuck.

      And in twenty years they’ll say they knew it all along.

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        Please elaborate: where’s the racism?

        This has been the US playbook since before we were born, and funding, arming, and influencing Salafi jihadists in particular has been going on since at least the 1980s. Previously:

        6 December 1993: Anti-Soviet warrior puts his army on the road to peace

        FAIR: Forgotten Coverage of Afghan ‘Freedom Fighters’ But the U.S. government and the American press have not always opposed Afghan extremists. During the 1980s, the Mujahiddin guerrilla groups battling Soviet occupation had key features in common with the Taliban. In many ways, the Mujahiddin groups acted as an incubator for the later rise of the Taliban in the 1990s.

        Despite CIA denials of any direct Agency support for Bin Laden’s activities, a considerable body of circumstantial evidence suggests the contrary. During the 1980s, Bin Laden’s activities in Afghanistan closely paralleled those of the CIA. Bin Laden held accounts in the Bank for Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), the bank the CIA used to finance its own covert actions. Bin Laden worked especially closely with Hekmatyar—the CIA’s favored Mujahiddin commander. In 1989, the U.S. shipped high-powered sniper rifles to a Mujahiddin faction that included bin Laden, according to a former bin Laden aide.

  • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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    4 months ago

    Genocide is bad. If your ideology prevents you from agreeing with that statement, you are a monster.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      Nobody here is denying that genocide is bad, what’s in question is what the US Empire says is happening vs what is actually happening. The US Empire has lied before, such as the babies taken from incubators story or Iraq’s WMD, but it was only long after the dust had begun to settle in Iraq that the liberals started to agree with the leftists that the evidence was actually insufficient after all.

    • jankforlife@lemmy.mlOP
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      4 months ago

      Genocide IS bad, but the “muslim genocide” in China is nothing but a CIA op, as usual

  • Shamber@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Translation, we are very concerned because someone else is doing the killing, they took ur, joooobsss

  • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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    4 months ago

    Hot take:

    The US has committed horrifying war crimes and crimes against humanity against Muslims and continues to do so.

    And so does China

    Its always fascinating to see the war between Nazis and Tankies fight over which imperial power is based, rather than demonstrating a working frontal lobe and damning both for their crimes.

    • jankforlife@lemmy.mlOP
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      4 months ago

      And so does China

      The only “evidence” of this comes from the empire and is demonstrably false

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              4 months ago

              Someone once put together a book titled, “One Hundred Authors Against Einstein.” Einstein dismissed the book with the quip, “Why one hundred? If I were really wrong, they’d only need one.”

              • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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                4 months ago

                Sounds like a colossal reach at best, and pathetic cope at worst.

                You understand the colossal differences between multiple independent journalists researching and reporting on the same topic, and a large organized group of pseudointellectuals trying to disprove a single person based on vibes alone, right?

                You seem to be very desperately, and pathetically holding onto a form of fallacy of composition:

                https://practicalpie.com/fallacy-of-composition/

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  4 months ago

                  No, I’m simply calling out a lazy gish gallop. It’s the same in both cases.

                  How many sources are listed on the Wikipedia page for Christianity? If I accept your logic as valid, it seems I’ll have to convert.

          • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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            4 months ago

            Wikipedia is one of the most reliable sources of public information, most especially do to the international collaboration efforts on it.

            You can’t just dismiss a source on the basis that you don’t like it. You need to provide actual evidence that the source is untrustworthy

            • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
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              4 months ago

              Wikipedia is one of the most reliable sources of public information

              Yeah if you’re looking up wood joints and math theorems. Not if you’re trying to learn anything about politics or history that ties into the interests of the systems and institutions that filter the media allowed as valid citations.

              You need to provide actual evidence that the source is untrustworthy

              Do they ban the New York Times because they lied the country into every war it’s been in since McKinley?

        • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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          4 months ago

          Not only has China been an imperialist regional super power for the majority of its lo g history, but simply ask Taiwan, the Uyghurs, Tibet, Hong Kong, Vietnam or any of the various countries China is practicing neocolonialism in in Africa or Island nations

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            4 months ago

            This is fanfiction. China isn’t practicing neocolonialism in Africa, it’s engaging in south-south trade that is actually helping African countries escape the trappings of western imperialism. Taiwan was invaded by the KMT when they lost the war, and took over the island. The Xinjiang and Tibet are both doing well and support the PRC, and Hong Kong is gradually doing better now that they aren’t under British colonial rule. Vietnam is a strong trade partner with China.

  • barnaclebutt@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Whataboutism, and possibly propaganda. They are both horrible and should not exist. Moral superiority doesn’t matter if people are being systematically murdered.

    • herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      When dealing with hypocrites, whataboutism is the correct and logically consistent response.

      People who complain about whataboutism are 99% hypocrites whose hypocrisy has been pointed out. And they have no rational arguments to defend their view other than deflecting the topic.

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        Citations Needed podcast:
        Whataboutism - The Media’s Favorite Rhetorical Shield Against Criticism of US Policy

        Since the beginning of what’s generally called ‘RussiaGate’ three years ago, pundits, media outlets, even comedians have all become insta-experts on supposed Russian propaganda techniques. The most cunning of these tricks, we are told, is that of “whataboutism” – a devious Soviet tactic of deflecting criticism by pointing out the accusers’ hypocrisy and inconsistencies. The tu quoque - or, “you, also” - fallacy, but with a unique Slavic flavor of nihilism, used by Trump and leftists alike in an effort to change the subject and focus on the faults of the United States rather than the crimes of Official State Enemies.

        But what if “whataboutism” isn’t describing a propaganda technique, but in fact is one itself: a zombie phrase that’s seeped into everyday liberal discourse that – while perhaps useful in the abstract - has manifestly turned any appeal to moral consistency into a cunning Russian psyop. From its origins in the Cold War as a means of deflecting and apologizing for Jim Crow to its braindead contemporary usage as a way of not engaging any criticism of the United States as the supposed arbiter of human rights, the term “whataboutism” has become a term that - 100 percent of the time - is simply used to defend and legitimizing American empire’s moral narratives.

    • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      Jesus Christ, “Whataboutism” really does just mean anything other than complete blind belief in the American Nat-sec blob now. “Oh, you don’t believe that people who activity cheer on the genocide of Palestinians are being sincere in their claimed concern for Chinese Muslims? WHATABOUTISM!”

      people are being systematically murdered.

      I assume you’re referring to Gaza? Because not even the most frothing sinophobes have tried to claim a “systematic murder” of Muslims in China, so if you’re not referring to Gaza, you are literally making up lies whole cloth.