Red Letter Media’s final thoughts on the state of Star Wars were pretty insightful: It’s become a container with a very specific aesthetic that Disney can pile an infinite number of things into: multi-quadrant science fiction blockbusters, preschool cartoons, carnival rides, political dramas, kids adventures, whatever.
It’s since stopped being a finite thing anyone can love anymore. When something becomes everything, it loses distinctness. That distinctness, whatever it was, is what early fans originally fell in love with.
Of course, those original objects still exist, but you have to specify them. You’re an “original trilogy” fan or an Andor fan or the made-for-TV Ewok movies fan†, but saying you’re a Star Wars fan is basically meaningless now. And for people who proudly wore that mantle, through eyerolls and ridicule, that’s a genuine loss.
† Teek from Battle for Endor has a posse.
“Want to sell a lot? Just brand it Star Wars!”
The motivation for making a new show should be “We want to tell an amazing new story set within the Star Wars universe” but it’s actually “We want to make loads of money, therefore our new thing is going to be Star Wars.”
I’ve only seen ‘Attack of the Clones’, so I guess I’m a fan of that.
Star Wars isn’t good, Andor and Mandalorian S01 are good.
That Christmas special is pretty tight if you live somewhere with legal weed.
Add Rogue One, as well
I rewatched it (several times, actually…) recently after Andor S2 and was just a little underwhelmed after years of remembering it through rose-tinted lenses. That’s not to say it’s a bad movie. Just kinda mid or slightly above average, which puts it far ahead of the rest of the Disney-era Star Wars movies. But next to the quality of Andor there are definitely some things that stick out.
Some critiques I have are pacing, unearned character flip-flopping when convenient, and supporting characters whose own motivations don’t go far beyond supporting the main characters.
It still has a special place in my heart and this isn’t to say other SW media is without flaw. I think Rogue One is a fun movie but its greatness lies in how it sets up the Andor series rather than anything it does by itself.
I definitely think the best way to appreciate it is immediately following the Andor series, which itself is best after a Rogue One watch, at least the first time around. I.e. Rogue One -> Andor -> Rogue One
the only redeemable quality the mandalorian has is the werner herzog cameo
honestly, Disney’s treatment of the franchise killed my life long love for it
Lucas had already taken it out to the woodshed several times.
The franchise has historically been at its best in the fallow years, when people were just tapping into the IP to tell their own stories.
But you can say the same of Trek, of Harry Potter, of Marvel and DCU. Any time the suits take over, content trends towards slop
Agreed… however, I do have a specially dark and bitter place in my heart for Disney. They have a rotten touch and ruin every IP they buy
I mean, I generally like their original work. Moana, Lilo and Stitch, The Incredibles, Zootopia - all very entertaining, creative, and packed with talented performances.
And they can even make solid kids action movies. Disenchanted, Hocus Pocus, the original Pirates of the Caribbean, Tron - it’s clearly within the capacity of the studio to make good films.
When they buy up these outside franchises and “Disney-fy” them, though… Woof.
disenchanted was disney? i thought that was primarily a groening project.
Disenchanted, the movie. Not the Netflix cartoon. The feature length movie is a sequel to Enchanted, a live-action parody of the traditional Disney Princess trope.
I thought Incredibles predated the Disney takeover? Otherwise I agree
The sequel came out in 2018 and was enjoyable
I really liked Andor, but that’s because it was trying to be a political spy thriller first, and a star wars show second.
Most Disney Star Wars is really in love with the fact that its Star Wars, to the point that it feels like a child smashing their toys together, than an actual show or movie
Disney Star Wars is really in love with the fact that its Star Wars, to the point that it feels like a child smashing their toys together
Mood.
In a similar vein, I’ve been calling anything post-buyout as “Disney fanfiction”. Some fanfiction is great! But it’s not canon.
I have watched every single Star Wars movie in theatres since I was a kid and they released the special editions in theatres. But last Jedi was so bad that I didn’t even bother to go see rise of skywalker. Not just in theatres, i still haven’t watched it to this day.
You’re not missing out, in my opinion it was not a good movie in any sense.
I thought the first movie of the new trilogy was actually pretty good though.
There are valid criticisms of it but it was all around a solid start to the next chapter of the franchise.
Then the last Jedi happened. Fuck that. And then whatever the rise of skywalker is. Oh emperor palpatine is alive again for no reason at all, woo.
If they’d have just kept the expanded universe canon and moved forward with that then everything would have been fine. But no. Let’s have an aggressive needlessly secretive admiral lady ram a starship, because “believe women” somehow also means “women are incapable of lying” or whatever the fuck the point of that idiocy was.
It’s just so fucking bad.
I used to do a little camera work. #7 has my favorite shot/camera angle of the entire franchise. they told a lot of that story visually.
Well, someone had to since the script writers didn’t.
That’s a new take I can appreciate. Thanks actually
People disagree on this often. I thought 7-8-9 was shit. However 8 was a special kind of shit. I think half of the movie was really good. The other half of it, was absolute dogshit. At least it wasn’t a “'memba” fest like 7 and 9. It tried to do original stuff, but it fucked up royally on the pursuit / canto arcs. And I’m not even talking about the hyperspace ramming.
However the Luke + Rey + Kylo arcs were genius. People hate it for the old man drinking aliencowtitjuice and being a bitter old man and for his sacrifice, but it’s actually very characteristic of him. And the mystery of Rey’s past and her connection with Kylo is very well done and explores things never seen before.
I wonder what the story behind this is. And whether Johnson had to make concessions for Disney.
If that is what is characteristic of Luke Skywalker, then they certainly changed the character and the fan page is it is appropriate.
Throwing out the Literary Extended Universe, but kinda of sort of keeping elements of it is what has made it so bad.
There were really important things that happened in the world in the LEU. Which continues establishing who the characters and the world of Star wars.
It’s should be no surprise the fan base is so divided. If you have only seen that Han Shot First that gives you a very different perspective on Han Solo. If you have read about Mara Jade, or C’Boath, Grand Admiral Thrawn, the Katana Fleet then having their names spoken in the cinematic universe gives you a very different vision of what’s going on on screen because you have a or existing understanding that you can’t just forget about us they don’t actually explain who those people are in the on screen version of them.
Lucas never should have licenced stories that were not going to be okay if the cannon, then go ahead and steal the names of those non canon characters or events if he didn’t want to fracture the fanbase. But they did and now it’s a mess.
That being said there is now opportunity to do Star wars legends movies since they already disassociated those stories from canonical Star wars, which is great and they should absolutely do that.
how will you learn how palpatine came back for reasons now?
so you haven’t watched every single star wars movie in theatres since you were a kid
I still haven’t seen 9. I just stopped being interested in Star Wars after seeing 8 in theaters. I wasn’t a Star Wars nerd or anything but I did really enjoy everything Star Wars until seeing episode 8.
I’ve actually come to dread when they add a sequel to a good movie.
For every Terminator two there’s a Phantom menace.
I absolutely love the Republic/Imperial Commando series by Karen Traviss which ended in a massive cliffhanger because Disney took over and didn’t allow her to continue.
Fuck Disney, all my homies hate Disney!
There are dozens of us!
It’s sad. For almost ten years people have argued about what went wrong with Star Wars.
Too many genres? The EU was scattershot and unfocused at times, but never hurt the brand in a significant way. In fact, it led to some great books and games
Too much politics? The villain of TPM is named after Newt Gingrich, and nobody really cared. ANH was inspired by Vietnam, and was still a box office hit.
The fanbase hates (insert minority)? While the internet has magnified the extreme weirdos, all six films have some mix of assertive female leads and non-white characters. Lando blew up the Death Star, Mace Windu was considered second only to Yoda. Every clone, etc. Still had a successful brand. Clone Wars focused hard on the clones and is put above the prequels by many of the hardcore fans. This isn’t to say there aren’t awful people who acted unhinged, but that goes for basically every large group of people in human history, let alone fandoms on the internet.
The answer is quality of writing. The originals were written well, and had coherent world building. The prequels struggled with character writing and general complexity, which is why they are more divisive. Good writing is the difference between the comedy of C-3PO and Jar Jar. It’s the difference between Luke and Rey. And it’s the difference between soul and slop.
The people at Disney either don’t understand this, or don’t care. It is an organization of Nico Harrisons who don’t understand the fundamentals of their industry. This pattern has been repeating across pop culture since the 2010’s, and was blamed on culture war instead of the real issue. It’s a miracle that something like Rogue One or Andor was ever greenlit.
Also, did you know the box office drop-off between 4 and 5 is the same, down to the percentage point, as the drop-off between 7 and 8? And yet, 5 is the most beloved, while 8 had so much backlash that Disney panicked and turned 9 into damage control, instead of working off of 8.
The difference? ESB is well written. TLJ broke space combat entirely for a cool visual. I don’t want to absolve TFA, which gets off way too easy because of what followed, but this comment is already too long…
It wasn’t just panic over fan backlash that made them screw up 9. 8 basically left them nothing to work with to get to the ending they wanted. Especially with the tragic loss of Carrie Fisher, who was meant to be the central character of 9.
That was down to a critical lack of planning.
I dunno if Disney cares much about the writing so long as the property makes money. It’s hard to determine the cash return on streaming shows, though the viewership numbers definitely point towards a trend. Disney likes to characterize the production process as a product in an of itself, but subscribers are unlikely don’t translate that into viewership past the first couple episodes 🤷♂️
The original trilogy is enjoyable, and The Empire Strikes Back stands out as the strongest of the three.
Andor is top tier, with Rogue One serving as a decent conclusion.
Beyond that, nothing else really leaves a lasting impression for me.
“Which did you like better? ‘Jedi’ or ‘The Empire Strikes Back?’”
“‘Empire.’”
“Blasphemy.”
“‘Empire’ had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader’s his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that’s what life is, a series of down endings. All ‘Jedi’ had was a bunch of Muppets.”
Yeah, I just stopped paying attention altogether. The sequel trilogy is worse than the Holiday Special lol. I saw Rogue One and I was bored to tears. The Outlaws game requires an EA account to play. Star Wars is dead to me.
I saw Rogue One and I was bored to tears
Alright, hold up
I like Rogue One, but for the life of me I can’t figure out why people love Rogue One. It’s a decent enough Dirty Dozen riff in a Star Wars Skin Suit, but it has terrible pacing, a story that didn’t particularly need to be told, unengaging leads (rewatch after Andor helps some but not entirely), and too much fan service. It’s nice that it allows some whisps of moral ambiguity into the Rebellion, and it’s absolutely saved by the climactic battle, but I do not get the universal and enthusiastic acclaim.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Episode 8 is better.
I can’t figure out why people love Rogue One.
On its face, its a good movie. I think what put it over the top was the way in which they folded the final scene so neatly into the opening scene of New Hope.
it has terrible pacing, a story that didn’t particularly need to be told, unengaging leads (rewatch after Andor helps some but not entirely), and too much fan service
Eh. Rewatched it recently and I’ll spot that it feels like three shorter films stapled together. But they’re three good movies. I’ll also say that “story that needs to be told” is the absolute wrong philosophy for the Star Wars setting. The show is at its best when its just people bumping around the Galaxy in the shadow of the tentpole events. You could write a Star Wars sitcom that’s just imperial bureaucrats fucking around in the style of The Office and it could be solid gold. Hell, that’s on-and-off what made The Mandalorian so good.
Lucas made a fun setting full of creative little asides and bits of exotic Sci-Fi art that anyone would peel off and do their own thing with. That’s what makes it so great for video games, TTRPGs, EU novels, comedy sketches, amateur art renditions, cosplay… The franchise is this elaborate sandbox full of fun little toys. Just grabbing a few and swinging them around is fun, whether or not you have the whole history of the extended universe committed to heart.
Also, incidentally, what makes “We’re doing the Death Star again” so hack. You don’t need to build a new death star when you can just play with the one you’ve already got. Test firing on Jedha is fun. Running around a construction site full of spare Death Star parts is fun. Rescuing an engineer is fun. Getting stuck in a trash compactor on the detention level is fun.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Episode 8 is better.
I don’t think you really have to choose. You also don’t really need to throw $30M at every episode (or whatever Andor’s budget was) to have fun in the setting. One reason I enjoyed Solo so much was in how it got back to that slumming-it style of Star Wars. The little vinette of Han as an imperial commando trying to survive the trenches of some mudhole was perfect Star Wars material and didn’t require a metric fuckton of CGI to pull off.
Isn’t Outlaws Ubisoft?
Yes, but regardless, the real LucasArts Outlaws is on GoG.
OH MARRRRSHALLLLLLLL!!!
Oh yeah, I confuse them. My bad.
The sequel trilogy sucks. Nothing they (Disney) come out with comes to par with TOR which was for the few trailers it had, were the only thing that captured the essence and vibe of Star Wars since the original 2D Clone Wars animated show. The Mandalorian is alright but it has too many Disney aspects to it that remind of how they mucked up sequel trilogy. GL failed us and sold the franchise to this realms Jabba The Hut.
Trek, baby.
Call me when they make a competency porn series again.
I’m over emotion trek.
Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel, DC; it’s all creatively exhausted corporate entertainment product at this point.
The next time they reboot superbatspiderman is gonna be better for sure. who doesnt want to see another origin story of fucking spiderman
;_; Star Wars legends fan, I will continue to resent Disney forever for blighting one of my favorite franchises. But yeah new “Star Wars” content has ceased to excite me. When the acolyte came out and I saw the reviews I was completely unsurprised.
All the people who know how it supposed to be good are left by now. Only those who have no idea how good it used/supposed to be stayed. Nobody else but them cares if they say “it’s good now”. In other words: fanboy echo chamber.
Star Wars were always as stupid as they are now. The only reason you think something changed is that you grew older. Motherfuckers who were like 7 when they listened to I hate sand monologue, believe that sttar wars is supposed to be something other than pew pew lasers in space
That one scene in that one specific movie doesn’t really compare to modern SW movies. Prequels were not as good as original Trilogy mainly due to attempting to be modern style movies. And even original movie had this specific kissing scene that got deleted later for a very peculiar reason. We can complain about each movie. But man, nothing can beat “Somehow, Palpatine returned”.
spoiler
Rogue One was quite good, actually.
"It’s-a clear desa separatists made a pact wesa desa Federation du Trade. Senators, "dellow felagates. In response to this direct threat to the Republic, mesa propose that the senate give immediately emergency powers to the supreme chancellor
This beats somehow returning palatine for sure. But forget that one, the main central guy of all 6 movies turns out to be immaculately conceived by a bunch of medichlorians whatever they are, and y’all are ok with that now. I vividly remember how everyone was up their buttholes about that 20 years ago, but now it’s a great cinema apparently and only new thing bad. And if you think original plot made more sense, your judgement is just clouded by nostalgia, because it was the same nonsense and the same cycle of criticism.
The only reason I dislike somehow palpanite returning more than the rest of the nonsense, is because they fucked up a nice theme about everyone being worthy of force that was beginning to emerge. And this only shows that they actually had a theme going on that could be fucked up.
It’s a kids movie about space wizards!
