Hey all. Getting right to it:

Last November, a majority of my wife’s family voted trump. I immediately made known my disgust and that I had no interest in maintaining relationships with any of them. My wife is equally appalled, but family is important to her and she chooses to compartmentalise it for the sake of their relationships. That’s her call. Typically, her mother comes to stay at our house for an extended period as we live far away, and this year I tolerated her being here for the sake of my wife.

But now, thinking about the next visit and how bad things have gotten, I can’t even stand the thought of having her in my house, let alone being in the same room as her. I really don’t want her here at all, but I will again tolerate her for my wife’s sake. However I think it’s likely that I will make myself pretty scarce during that time.

So the ethics question is - given that I expressed my distaste after the election but still remained cordial, is it ok, ethically speaking, to become more resentful as the consequences of their actions become more apparent? Or, given that what has happened since is pretty much out of everyone’s hands, am I locked in to the level of hostility I showed immediately after?

I guess the distilled version is - a person does X, I express disapproval. Is it ethical to express MORE disapproval as additional unforeseen consequences of X become apparent?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Edit to Clarify - My mother in law is not MAGA and I don’t think she’s enjoying any of it. She thinks we can “just not talk about it” and everything will be fine. However she has become more racist and judgemental (anti-trans etc) in recent years. Hates Joe Biden and Kamal Harris but can’t or won’t say why. Thanks for the responses so far and I’ll try to respond, but I’m about to start work shortly.

  • stinerman@midwest.social
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    11 days ago

    I have a similar situation and I’ve landed on “my first duty is to my wife.” What that means to you may be different than what it means to me, but that’s where you should start IMO.

    To the TL;DR question, absolutely it’s ethical to be more upset as more bad things happen.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      11 days ago

      I’m like you, my first obligation is always to my wife, that’s the promise I made. But it’s never tested my principles before. I’ve already decided I’m just going to be scarce during those times. There’s been a lot of good advice here, but I was actually more interested in what ethics scholars would say regarding me feeling angrier as time goes on. The targets of my anger haven’t done anything more to deserve additional anger, it’s the consequences of what they did that continue to make me angry…

  • Swordgeek@lemmy.ca
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    12 days ago

    Resentfulness is a reaction, not a position to take.

    You can either say “she’s not welcome” or “we agree to disagree and will not discuss it” and then stick to it. Your choice. But letting (welcoming?) her into your home and then resenting her presence is childish.

    Take a stand, one way or another. If you let her come, then deal with it like an adult.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      11 days ago

      I immediately like and respect you. But there is some nuance. It’s not so much “letting her into my home” as it is “not preventing my wife from seeing her mother.” I’ve been preparing my wife for me to not be hanging out with them like I used to, I’ll be somewhere else or hiding out in my office.

      I guess I should have been a bit clearer, but I was genuinely academically curious to know whether my increasing anger is legitimate. The general consensus seems to be it depends on their level of remorse (if any) over their choice. And that makes sense. From what I saw during this year’s visit, the MIL would just like to ignore all of it, but I don’t think that’s ok either. Fucking trump!

  • HurricaneLiz@lemmy.world
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    11 days ago

    You can forgive her and feel compassion for her for being misled and confused, but not allow speech that violates your own ethics in your own home. Bonus - no more resentment on your end, which is healthier for you, personally, regardless of what she chooses to do with her own life.

    • czardestructo@lemmy.world
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      10 days ago

      This is exactly how I conduct myself with my maga mother in law. Any bigoted shit in front of my daughter gets publicly squashed and any political topics are quickly dealt with and put in its place. She lives a life of ignorance, dont be mad, feel bad.

  • RBWells@lemmy.world
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    11 days ago

    With my ex MIL I stay friendly because she’s great in so many ways, and just act completely ignorant when she says something awful, for example:

    ExMIL: I’m looking for a church but can’t find one that is Christian enough.

    Me: Oh, I understand. So many are just so worldly now and not at all Christ like, they don’t welcome the stranger, they do that prosperity gospel nonsense, culture war bullshit instead of good works. That makes sense.

    ExMIL: oh I meant they are too progressive, too loosey goosey (Paraphrasing)

    Me: Huh?

    Or

    ExMIL: I don’t understand this trans nonsense.

    Me: I know, right? Who gives a fuck what someone else says they are! You say you are a boy, you are a boy, it doesn’t have any effect on anyone else, I don’t understand the drama around it, at all.

    Basically whenever I get a chance I just intentionally misinterpret it like there is no possibility that she meant that, because nobody could possibly mean that.

    • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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      10 days ago

      I’ve tried this. It usually ends up with them thinking you’re kinda dumb, which is ironic. But they almost never get the point and make the connection either way.

  • TryingSomethingNew@sopuli.xyz
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    12 days ago

    Just make sure she’s aware of the consequences of her actions. The amount of detail or tangentiality is up to you. If she’s smart she’ll STFU about it and it can be civil, if not cordial. But feel free to pull out the “I’m glad you like it when they zip tie kids” as needed.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      11 days ago

      I think I’d prefer to leave that to my wife, who isn’t shy about doing that. I got involved one time earlier this year (alcohol was involved) and I ended up being the asshole in the wife’s eyes. It was grossly unfair in my opinion, but that one time was enough for me to stay out of it permanently. Next visit I think I’m just going to not be around. I have a home office to hide in.

  • LambeauLeap@sopuli.xyz
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    11 days ago

    Dude please please please don’t let Trump ruin your marriage. Not allowing your MIL to stay for her annual visit when your wife wants her to is gonna be a big big problem

  • MNByChoice@midwest.social
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    11 days ago

    I am of the opinion that not discussing these things is an analog to the Paradox of Tolerance, if not being exactly what the Paradox is about. If we don’t discuss the hatefulness, then the hateful think they are doing fine.

    Attacking only causes people to “dig in”. Passive aggressive actions will make you look weak.

    Being cordial while also calling out instances of hate as they occur would likely be fine. Be strong and confident, but keep corrections short and to the point (Imagine correctly a 5 year old. Understanding and care, not anger, and keep things in reality.) “That didn’t happen.”, “Why would a criminal say that?”, “Toddlers visiting basketball plays, will reduce the average height, but no one gets shorter or taller.”

  • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
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    11 days ago

    I don’t think this is an ethics question, you’re asking whether resentment builds or fades over time and the answer will be very specific to each person and case. That being said there’s one thing I would like to point out:

    a person does X, I express disapproval. Is it ethical to express MORE disapproval as additional unforeseen consequences of X become apparent?

    Those weren’t unforseen, that’s the worst part for me, they were clearly foreseen, foretold and warned about, and I could potentially be persuaded to believe people were unaware of that the first time around, but by the second time you are obviously okay with all of it.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      11 days ago

      I’m being a little generous with that. I agree that they knew he was a piece of shit, but I think a lot of them thought he’d just hurt the people they look down on and not them.

  • ℕ𝕖𝕞𝕠@slrpnk.net
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    12 days ago

    Disapproval continues to be appropriate until they repent. Resentfulness harms only yourself, and should be avoided if possible. Overall I think you’re walking the line pretty well so far.

  • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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    11 days ago

    To your edit… it rather sounds like she is in fact MAGA and doesn’t want to admit to the “why”. there’s really not very many people who were both willing to vote for trump a second time and aren’t MAGA, even if they don’t want to admit it.

    from an ethics stand point, I’ll remind you of an old german saying. “If 10 men are sitting at a table with a nazi, you have 11 nazis.” You cannot look at trump and honestly conclude he’s an acceptable (never mind good,) president without also agreeing with his fascist and tyrannical bullshit. if she’s genuinely unhappy with the status quo, she can show it by protesting or something. Until then, she’s still a trump supporter and still part of the problem, and there is zero excuse for not knowing what he was about. he said he was going to do everything that he’s doing. (well. maybe not the ballroom or shitting himself, but details.)

    but none of us are the ones you need to be having this conversation with. we can’t decide what’s right here… that’s a personal decision you need to make with your wife.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      11 days ago

      Pretty much hit the nail on the head there boss. No matter how hard I try I can’t accept the ignorance excuse after what all of us have seen. Earlier this year I said to my mother in law “surely you knew at the time that you were doing the wrong thing?” She denied it. The best approach for me is to be around the MIL as little as possible. My wife knows that. It makes her sad, but she understands.

  • meco03211@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Do they try to talk politics while around? If so I’d fucking unload on their sorry asses (depending on how the wife would react). One of the most common themes I’ve seen among supporters is they have a very small single issue they claim as the sole reason. So forcing them to address the full ramifications I feel is prudent.

    If they don’t try to talk politics, I’m not sure what I would do. But I’d definitely be making sure my wife wasn’t enduring some extra trauma for the sake of family. You could try helping her realize she had the power to cut them out of her life and she can be just fine.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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      11 days ago

      Yeah she’s one of those “for the economy” types. But I don’t believe it from anyone who voted trump. We all saw the entirety of his first term, and J6. On top of that, in my opinion anyone who says they voted for him for the economy is tacitly admitting they knew he was going to hurt people, but chose to ignore that because they thought it would benefit them personally.

  • artifactsofchina@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    Not in America so viewing you as on the front lines of this present catastrophe.

    Please do everything you can to avoid further entrenching resentment.

    It looks like your country is so bitterly divided. I’ve visited once, and my impression was then that there is a lot more grey than any media or the internet conveys.

    If you’re living close to someone who supported that maniac, please do what you can to build bridges so that they can find a way back to sanity. I get that it’s not fair and that responsibility should fall on them. But realistically I think you need to be the adult in the relationship.

    Please do what you can to build bridges and be compassionate, curious. Own your own sense of moral outrage and dignity, but give these people space to make their mistakes and learn from them, without your judgement. Direct your hatred and anger against the acts that upset you, but be gracious and kind in your relationships. Allow your mother in law to be wrong. Honour whatever is good in her.

    Don’t be a player hater!

    If she says something racist, don’t just let it stand. But where you can, see if you can draw out her reasons. See if you can uncover the true fears behind the scapegoating. Just let her be heard, without judgement. Be curious about the person. And where you can do so with humility, share your own beliefs and what is important to you. But share in the interests of being known, not of flag bearing.

    Give yourself space where you need. It’s OK to feel strongly, and to be upset. But please, do the work to build bridges, don’t let your family be divided by an utter madman.

  • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Put a rainbow flag in the room where she sleeps. 😋
    Maybe a picture of Reagan with quotes of how Russia is the enemy, and tariffs are bad for everybody.

  • doctordevice@lemmy.ca
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    11 days ago

    I promise I’m not trying to be dismissive, but do you think you might be autistic? I ask because I am and I struggle with very rigid thinking on how I should react to the consequences of people’s actions that I believe were blatantly foreseeable.

    I struggle with this very same issue in my own family. I’ve already gone no contact with my older sister who went full Qanon during COVID, and I barely have a relationship with my Trump-loving grandparents anymore. That relationship is a little laden with religious trauma too, so might not be totally comparable to your situation (I still have to vaguely pretend to be Christian around them even though I’ve been staunchly atheist for twenty years).

      • doctordevice@lemmy.ca
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        11 days ago

        This is the most damning evidence of all! When you become more aware of how your autism affects your perception, it’s easier to spot in others.

        I have really high justice sensitivity, and your description of your perception changing as injustices were borne out from their actions feels a lot like how I would react. I don’t think you’re wrong at all, but I don’t think your wife is either. It’s a very hard situation. I don’t regret cutting or limiting contact with my far right family, but I would have a hard time doing that with my wife’s family for the same reasons you’ve laid out.

        • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
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          11 days ago

          I’m definitely not pushing my wife in any direction, just listening and supporting. I have a hard time sympathizing with her attachment to family as mine were abusive assholes and I cut ties with them years ago. I’ll never suggest she do the same, but it wouldn’t bother me at all if she does. I learned a long time ago not to rely on anyone else.

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      10 days ago

      For me, there was a line, and that line was crossed this year. I was fine with just not talking about politics with my MAGA parents for literally the last 20+ years.

      But when they start putting people in camps, deporting people to countries they have no familial connection to, sending military into cities and brutalizing people with no due process, etc etc., then I can no longer abide.

      I literally cannot speak with them now without showing my absolute disgust and disappointment.