Stupid ass private education bullshit
In Australia University used to be free. At some point they realised that Asia is close and has a virtually limitless supply of rich parents who want to pay big money for their kids to be lawyers and doctors.
Education is now one of Australia’s main exports.
I guess you’re talking about the US.
Well, everything costs money there: education, health, safety… It’s capitalist dystopia.
It doesn’t. It costs money to skip a lot of the effort and have someone guide you through a curriculum and give you direct guidance and feedback on how to get that knowledge.
I have an Engineering degree, everything I learned there could absolutely be learned by someone curious poking around on the internet for videos, papers, and course slides that you’ll probably need to read alongside a wiki page. They tend to come up pretty quickly once you’re familiar enough with a field to start investigating one level deeper from a basic high school education.
It doesn’t.
It takes time and effort to gain more knowledge. It has never been cheaper or more accessible to acquire knowledge than it is today.
To increase your intelligence, is another matter all together.
I would also add that damn near all of human information is free to be had on the internet for the low, low price of a monthly broadband bill. The real expense comes when you want a piece of paper that says you know all this that other people will take seriously.
While absolutely true. I would say it’s much harder to find today than ten years ago. The Internet as an information source is being degraded on a daily basis. The amount of misinformation, ads disguised as information, and AI slop is destroying your ability to find that information.
Textbooks on any subject are easily retrievable for free. You could previously go to a library, but the internet makes it much easier to retrieve that kind of information.
Disclaimer: I 100% support “free” healthcare and “free” education.
Being a teacher is a job. Being a college professor is a job. Being a nurse is a job. Being a janitor for a college campus is a job. People need money and benefits to do jobs. We’ve not yet achieved a post-scarcity economy where people can work without being reimbursed for their efforts.
Anyone who labels the goal of providing publicly-funded education or publicly-funded healthcare as “free” is either arguing in bad faith or too naive to understand what the goal should be. As a society we should provide public services, such as education and healthcare, to all humans who ask for it. For the good of all humans. But it’s something we all have to collectively fund.
Free to the user… Are you just trying to muddy this water?
Not at all.
By calling for education and healthcare to be free, you’re voluntarily giving ammunition to politicians that they can use to sway low-information voters.
If every person who supported public education and public healthcare stopped calling it free right now, the people against these public services would still call them free. Because they want it to sound like people are trying to get something for nothing. They like it when we call it free.
Calling something free just conforms to the narrative that education and healthcare are something you would have to pay for in the first place. Why would you ever have to pay for a basic human right?
Idno man, that’s sounds like a very America brained argument. When people say free healthcare they don’t mean we should have self sustaining health slaves colony to heal us up for no money. Obviously it’s going to cost tax money if it’s not directly billing the consumer.
Public healthcare also doesn’t mean free healthcare. In Iceland it’s subsidised 90% with a wax payment of like $200 monthly or something so it’s not free, but it is public. You can also have free but private
I’d argue it doesn’t, and moreover you cannot buy intelligence.
Sure, you can buy some books with some stuff in it and memorize that stuff, or pay for a class on some stuff and test well, but critical thinking skills seem to either innately exist, or not (depending on the individual in question), within us.
I’ve met people with pieces of paper that proclaim them to be certified smart that are dumb as rocks but were simply able to move through the system well enough to fool people, and people who have no such paper who are more intelligent than the former could ever hope to be. Shit happens.
Getting smarter doesn’t really cost much. Public libraries exist, go read books and get smarter.
University degrees though… Yeah, those are fucked up.
Or you could emigrate to the EU, where higher education is free.
Because knowledge is power.
But also it depends. Learn on the job is a thing too in some industries, and in some people can do quite well for themselves here.
It also costs money to make money, if you have a lot of it you can make it work for you and make even more than someone who doesn’t have it. This is why kids of rich ass parents get it so easy.
an important rule of capital is that in order to get it, you must have it
Because capitalism
It was free until some time in the 1960s when black people started getting involved in higher education, then the republicans got big mad about that and changed the rules because they’re racist pieces of shit. They would rather make everyone suffer if it hurts one person who isn’t a white christian republican.
There’s more detail but that’s the short version.
Thats about certificated stuff from school. Knowledge has never been more accessible than today.
There are a lot more quality free learning resources than people realise.
Honestly, there isn’t hardly anything you couldn’t learn on your own. But what higher education provides is structure. It can be very difficult to actually follow through with the education if you do not have scheduled classes, exams you have to study for, deadlines for projects/exams, etc
Formal education isn’t for education but for the formal paper. There is so much information on the web, just learn from that. Also, libraries often times have material other than physical books
It doesn’t.
You need to study to be smart and studying is free.
Check out this pedantic guy over here. Just to be clear, knowledge means shit, it’s the diploma that counts
Only when you are talking about earning money. The smartest people out there are the ditch diggers and factory folk.
And what exactly would those two very specific demographics qualify as being smart?
I’m generalizing. There are more than two “very specific demographics”. More than two. Let’s call them proletariats for lack of a better word. The pursuit of knowledge for it’s own sake is what I was referring to. The “going to college and getting a good job” days are mostly over, unless you have an “in”.
Hmm, while I agree that no person is more intelligent than another just because of their status and that people who do their job often know better than their manager, the reality is that wealthy people are often better educated, making them the smartest. We just, as you allude to, have a privatization of means of production, but also of education. I would say the highest collection of knowledge, and thus smartness, can currently be found with high earning white collar job. Like lawyers or doctors.
I guarantee you, knowledge means something. You need the degree to get the job, but if you don’t know your ass for your elbow, that entry level job is as far as you are going to go. If you want a promotion and pay raise, you need to know your shit.
… in america.
Everywhere. You can’t go to Europe and claim to be a doctor cause you read all the books for free
In healthcare, yes. An IT guy, a plumber, an analyst, no. Legal and healthcare are the only two fields I can think of right now that a person with enough knowledge couldn’t enter without a diploma.
But those two fields make up what, 1 percent?Also, I don’t need to go to europe, because I’m already there.
There are many other fields that require a degree. Engineering, architecture, chemistry, biology, etc. In some of those fields you can find some jobs which you can do without the degree, but the vast majority do require it.
I hire people and, to be fair, most people with a degree do not qualify as valid for certain jobs. But in that case is lack of knowledge. In my case I’d rather have someone without degree but with a deep knowledge; but those are very hard to find.
Ok, first off, I don’t give a shit who you are or what you do, that’s not what this is about and unless your job has to do with looking at such topics in a scientific and non subjective way, which I did not read from you, your opinion matters just as much as anyone elses, just like mine.
Coming back to nicer grounds, yes, for the fields you have mentioned, that’s absolutely true. Those fields are quite critical and in my opinion should be gated by a diploma. You don’t just get to call yourself and architect and draft a building that collapses. Same with a chemist and accidentally poisoning the groundwater or being a scientist in general and wasting a lot of time and money, and so on. Also, please notice how I said I couldn’t think of any more, just genuinely low effort, was not meaning to say there weren’t.
I think that generally any job that has no immediate severe repercussions and where your employer can reasonably give you a probabtion period, you can just go ahead and do with enough knowledge. Such include (I’m only listing exotic ones, since that’s what we’re seemingly focusing on in this thread):
Technical writer
Salesperson
Consultant
Data Analyst
Project ManagerAnd in europe there is literally no gate to entry to lower level jobs like technical support or warehouse. Keep in mind that the vast majority of workers are not in the position to be a lawyer or a scientist.
But even with all that considered, my point still stands: The jobs you can’t do without a diploma, that’s like 1% of jobs. (Likely incorrect percentage)
Aaaand on top of that, when you’re in europe, you don’t even really have to go to uni. Sure, there are lectures you need to technically be present for, but you can just go, say you’re there, then leave. Then you have to pay like in the lower end of a few thousand bucks, which the university will even just straight up give to you if you’re poor and you can just take your exams. I don’t see nothing wrong with the exams, they’re good in any way.
What’s the problem here is the privatization of job opportunities, which for all intents and purposes doesn’t exist on this side of the lake. This is a uniquely american problem we’re talking about here.
I hIrE pEoPlE
The discussion was about the importance of a degree into finding a job. I hire people to work in research to develop novel drugs. I generally do not care whether they have a degree or not, but the degree does generally come with a level of preparation on the subject and a level of reasoning skills which are not easy to develop without formal training/working in the field. I did some times favor people without a degree over people with a PhD because they felt better candidates to me. Sometimes this is not possible due to bureaucracy. If you prefer, I do not actually hire people; I select people that should be hired with grant money I obtained to conduct certain research jobs.
I don’t know how it works in the US, but to get a job in sales or as a project manager a degree is not required where I live. Candidates with a degree may be favoured by a company, but there is no law enforcing the requirement for a degree. And I do know many people working those jobs without a degree.
Regarding the fact that you don’t need to go to university in Europe. I’m not really sure if I understand, I guess you mean it is not compulsory to attend lectures. I studied in Italy, there this was the case: all lectures were absolutely discretionary and you could finish your degree without attending a single one. That is except experimental stuff, which indeed you’d need to attend. You could theoretically just study from the books and pass all the exams and get your degree. However, lectures are very good for understanding what you’re studying, most people were attending all lectures anyway. The fact that those are optional is useful if some days you can not attend for whatever reason, whether you’re working or busy in some other way. This, however, is not the case throughout Europe. I live in Spain now, where attendance of lectures is compulsory. You do not get a degree unless you attend a specified percentage of the lectures. Many other countries in Europe follow this system.
In some countries in Europe you do not pay to attend university. In others you do have to pay, it’s generally a few thousand euros per year. In most countries you can get scholarships and not have to pay such fees or even get a salary for studying.
I believe we’re just misunderstanding each other. I do agree, for many jobs a degree is not necessary. But for many other jobs it is, or at least some kind of technical training. I believe the amount of jobs who do require some kind of certificate, at least in Europe, is higher than 1%. An electrician will be required a certificate to handle home installations and to ensure he knows what the normative is. A lathe operator will require a certificate which ensures he will not harm himself. A nurse now requires a degree, it used to be just a specific formation. Many other jobs are available who do not require a degree.
I’m not really sure to what you refer to as privatisation of job opportunities.
The only cost to an education or learning about subjects, ideas and people these days is the cost in TIME, NUTRITION AND EFFORT
Sure you can spend tens of thousands of dollars and go to university, college or whatever institution for a whole bunch of years and learn a bunch of stuff. Or you can just take the time to read a bunch of books, study them, learn from them on your own time.
I never had the opportunity to attend post secondary school … I read, I write on my own and do things on my own. I’m not the smartest person but I’ve surprised my more educated friends and family in my ability to know a lot about many things. I’ve also traveled the world to many countries and in each country I visited, I took the time to read about it’s history, read books from there and learn as much as I could about it all. I also enjoy learning about the latest technologies, so I’ve learned to tear apart computers, put them back together, install, uninstall, reinstall an OS and just generally play around with computer systems often. I have friends who are teachers and nurses with qualification in many things and lots of education, yet they come to me to fix their computers and they’re surprised when I can talk to them about most subjects about history, politics, travel, countries, science, technology and many other things.
I hate to say it because it sounds stupid … but having an education these days often doesn’t amount to much. Unless you have a well defined goal as to what you want to do and you have a lot money, resources and support, you get to become a well rounded, educated, knowledgeable and capable individual. Otherwise, the majority of post secondary educated people I’ve seen are just people collected certifications and diplomas to add to a collection and don’t really gain much of an education in anything valuable.
Read, read books, read all kinds of things and read often … it’s probably the biggest thing they get people to do in higher education. There is so much content out there that is freely available. Read, watch and listen to lectures that are freely available in all sorts of sites and made by actual highly educated and knowledgeable professors and professionals. Find those free resources that are vetted, recommended by people you trust.
The other part of the equation I honestly believe is nutrition. Eat properly and eat enough of the right things. My mom literally raised us on oatmeal every morning. I grew up with kids who ate sugar pops or nothing at all and the majority of them didn’t end up with a good life path. Then we seldom had processed foods as mom and dad were hunters and trappers that fed us a steady diet of wild meat and especially fresh fish. We’re Indigenous so a lot of our diet was from the land … we were poor and didn’t get to eat much but the food we ate was highly natural and nutritious. Eat enough good natural food, enough protein and fats, exercise, walk and train if you are young and capable and all that nutrition and blood pumping will get you to learn more, faster and retain things longer. The younger you do all this, the better it is because the older you become, the harder it is to do anything.
That’s great and all but individual learning isn’t a replacement for societal structures that foster and encourage education. Society wide the argument of “just read books lmao” doesn’t increase the education level of a population. These things are achieved by coordinated efforts and institutional education.
