If you truly love your partner, does a ring and a ceremony really do anything?
I know there are certain legal situations where an official marriage changes who has certain rights, but aren’t those same rights available if you make other legally-official decisions E.G. a will or trusts, etc?
I’m generally curious why people get married beyond the “because I love them” when it costs so much money.
Marriage? Why, it’s the greatest weapon in any noble’s arsenal! Let me enlighten you on matters of state and power.
Marriage isn’t about love; that’s a peasant’s fantasy. For those of us who bear the weight of ancient houses, marriage is statecraft of the highest order.
When I wed the second daughter of House Tyrell, I gained three castles along the Roseroad and secured my southern border against those Dornish vipers. Her father’s bannermen now answer my call; five thousand spears when winter comes.
Marriage binds blood to blood. When your wife bears your children, you’ve created heirs that unite two powerful lineages. Should some upstart lord challenge either house, they face the combined might of both.
Consider the Lannisters and their gold. A prudent marriage there secures not just coin for your depleted coffers, but access to their formidable fleet. Or perhaps the Arryns, whose impregnable Eyrie would shield your lands from eastern invaders.
Politics shifts like quicksand, but marriage creates bonds that even the most treacherous lords hesitate to break. The realm notices when sacred vows are betrayed, and remembers.
So you ask what’s the point? Power, lands, armies, legitimacy, and the future of your house. What greater purpose exists for those of us born to rule?
Now pass the wine. These matters of dynasty have made my throat dry.
Is there a Lemmy hall of fame yet?
There’s at least !bestoflemmy@lemmy.world
Posted!
Getting married doesn’t have to cost a lot of money, if a couple chooses to spend a lot on their wedding they’re doing it for that sake, but it’s not necessary.
I got married for free. In my town you can do that on Tuesday mornings. You can even bring up to 6 guests.
Marriage wasn’t important to me, either - I was with my now husband for many years before we tied the knot. I’d never been one for the traditional big wedding, wasn’t sure what difference it would make, etc.
What changed? My Mum died - and in all the times at hospital and then dealing with the funeral etc - I realised just how important being “next of kin” actually is. In so many ways. And while you can cover most of your bases with various legal documents - honestly there’s already a super easy way, that is very well understood all over the world, that achieves this.
And while I wasn’t expecting it to feel any different afterwards, it really did - for both of us. More certainty and just really solid.
Glad you mentioned ‘next of kin.’ This is the important answer. If you’re married, you can do all that important legal stuff- make medical decisions if your partner is unconscious or indisposed, get the death certificate if that happens and give it to all the people who will need it.
Say your partner is in a car accident and you go to the hospital. There’s no marriage, no forms, no nothing to indicate you’re at all related to this person. You’re just some dude or lady, showing up at some dude or lady’s bedside. You can’t make the decisions for this person. Even if, say, they have a horrible narcissistic mother they’re estranged from- that mother, just by being the mother, can get all the authority to make decisions your unconscious partner would hate!
(Drawing from my own life. Fuck my mother.)
You can’t even call the hospital and get information on them. If they aren’t awake to indicate a release of information, the hospital can’t let you see them, can’t tell you anything.
This is just the first example that came to mind. The purpose of marriage is, it’s a legal way to indicate that you’re the most important person in the life of the person you marry. (And yes, depending on where you are and laws in your state or country or whatever, domestic partnership and other stuff can grant that, too.)
I didn’t get married for the love or the religious reasons, it’s just way easier when you buy a house together. Now, if I die, all my stuff automatically belongs to my wife.
We got married on a Tuesday morning at the municipal building at 8:30 making it free. The only thing we spent money on was the rings.
What town is this where everybody gets free Tuesday morning weddings?
Not that I need another one, it just seems to be happening a lot in here
This was Meppel but every municipality in the Netherlands has a free marriage half hour. It varies what day it is but it’ll usually be early morning.
Most municipalities in the Netherlands have one morning per week for free marriages. Not always tuesday though.
Do you need to pay to get married ? I don’t think we paid anything for the administrative side in France.
I seem to recall paying a fee. Looking it up online on the website, it would cost $80 today in the county where we got the license.
I’m generally curious why people get married beyond the “because I love them” when it costs so much money.
Getting married doesn’t have to cost virtually anything. Really just the application fee to get a marriage license. The specific price will vary by state, and even by county (within the US, not sure how it works outside). Where I live, you can go to a courthouse and get married for $35.
If you plan to have kids, there are a lot of legal reasons why it’s just a lot simpler to be married. The same applies without them, to a lesser degree, but with kids it’s just so much more of a hassle to not be married.
You’re right that you can achieve most (maybe even all?) legal benefits of marriage through trusts, wills, etc. But that’s a hell of a lot more work, and the lawyer fees, filing fees, and application fees are almost certainly going to cost you more than a cheap courthouse marriage. Not to mention the added work for yourself.
Beyond all that, though, the single biggest reason I wanted to get married and have a wedding with lots of friends and family was to stand up in front of everyone and profess my love for my (now) wife, let her do the same for me, then have big party with all our friends and family to celebrate it. There’s nothing wrong with spending money to throw a party for something you want to celebrate.
Neither my wife nor I wanted kids but we still got married. The legal aspects you touch on are pretty darned important even without kids in the picture. Health/medical reasons are another huge one. We have a friend who lived with her partner for decades, but never got married. When he fell ill and was hospitalized it was virtually impossible for her to make any decisions, tell the doctors what his wishes were, etc. All because they weren’t legally married.
People have already pointed out the legal and financial aspects. But I also want to address the philosophical aspect of your question, which I think you had in mind. And I think the answer I would give you is this one:
Marriage has the meaning that you assign to it.
I strongly believe that if we got rid of any legal and financial benefits of marriage, even if we made it explicitly illegal, there would still be a bunch (or even a lot) of people who would get married.
I would compare it to a house fire. If my house was burning (and there were no living beings in it) and I could save 5 things, what would I save? What would you save? I would take, for example, my favorite soft toy from when I was a kid, and my old box filled with diaries. Is this worth any money? No. Does it have any value? To me, it does. To you, it doesn’t. Maybe you are a very rational person that isn’t attached to anything (or to nothing material) and you would indeed make the smartest choices, saving your passport and documents and money. Maybe you would save a small gift that someone important has given you. Maybe you would save the first guitar you ever bought. You save whatever has value and meaning to you. And these things have solely the meaning and value that you have attached to it.
Likewise, people have different value and meaning attached to marriage. If you look at it from a rational, logical side - it has its legal and financial perks and benefits and if they weren’t there, getting married would make no sense. But things don’t have to make sense. The meaning we assign to rituals, things, concepts, aren’t necessarily rational. They are, however, deeply personal.
So, as a side note, please beware of ridiculing people for their views on marriage or weddings, just like you wouldn’t want to ridicule or belittle someone for other things that mean a lot to them. Always sharing the last piece of bread. Always giving a coin to a homeless person. Having a breakfast for 30 minutes every morning. A good night kiss on the nose from their partner. Drawing a dick in the first snow of the winter. Some things mean a lot to people even if they do not rationally make sense.
In the case of marriage, of course, some of the meaning comes from culture, history, and tradition. Marriage might have had different purposes than it has now, and surely the origins weren’t that romantic. (Not saying, however, that marriage has to be romantic.) But it is there. It is important to some people simply because they have, at some point in their life, decided it is important for some reasons, rational or irrational, social, cultural, and hopefully personal too. To them, it makes sense, it has meaning, it has value. And whatever marriage or a wedding ceremony mean - you decide.
So the question you should be asking is not whether or not you should get married, it is what marriage means to you. Does it have any benefit or value in your eyes? Are the legal benefits enough for you to get married? What is your stance on divorce? Do you feel like you would get “closer together” with your partner? Would you feel it would make things harder to separate? There are a ton on questions like these that you can ask yourself, I hope you get the jist. There are not right or wrong answers. The only thing that is important is that the meaning you assign to marriage is (about) the same as the meaning your partner assigns to marriage. You can both not care about a spiritual meaning, but just get married for the benefits. You can both be a type of “whatever happens, we don’t get divorced, til death do us part”. You can be “we’ll keep reevaluating whether we still belong together”. You can also be “we get married because we have children and this is practical”. Or “we get married because I am hot and you are rich and when one of us loses their asset we split”. Or “we just want a fancy huge ass party to show our love in this very moment and celebrate it with our friends and whatever comes afterwards is secondary”. It doesn’t matter what your view is, it matters that you guys agree.
when it costs so much money.
What? Why should it? We married cheap, no rings or anything, it costs next to nothing.
The point is the legal benefits and publicly declaring your love and commitment, if you care about that.
You can spend as little as you want, if you only care about the legal status. But since you are probably asking about the usual big wedding - it’s really just throwing a party to celebrate the act. It’s not mandatory. Invite people you want to party with and celebrate life in a way you want.
What can suck about it is the peer pressure from parents and other people to do it the way they want, to do it “properly”.
I didn’t do the marriage thing because of love. I don’t need a piece of paper to tell me that. I did it for the logistical stuff. Buying a house. Having a kid. Combining finances. Life insurance. Health insurance. While all of this could be possible without being married, it’s much easier to have a marriage certificate than to try to prove to everyone all the time that we’re partners. If my husband were in the hospital on life support, being next of kin would simplify so many things. My culture is designed in a way that traditional marriage shapes so many processes. There may be workarounds, but they’re not always simplified and most people may not know how to use them. That can take valuable time that you don’t always have.
This exactly. It’s an easily recognizable legal shortcut to a bunch of systems, rules and privileges that apply to the situation of two people wanting to live their lives together. Doesn’t have to cost much, if anything, and doesn’t have to have anything at all to do with religion or rituals. Can be just two people showing up at the town hall if you want it to be.
My partner and I are similar to you. We couldn’t care less. I proposed to her, she said yes, we’re happy with the way things are, nothing needed to change.
However. Legally speaking, when you get married, you are considered as a single legal entity in many things including court/law enforcement/taxes.
A person cannot be compelled to bear witness to their partners actions in court, in the USA, that’s the fifth amendment, in Canada, it’s section 11© of the charter of rights and freedoms. The basic concept being that you have the right to remain silent (and not incriminate yourself).
While I don’t plan on doing any crime or anything… That’s a nice perk.
Also, she hates doing her taxes, so when we’re married, I can do taxes for both of us.
There’s very few perks here and bluntly, it’s not worth the cost…
We’re going to elope and just throw a “reception” (party) afterwards.
As one who eloped and had a reception party, this this is the way. We just celebrated 18 years.
We wanted to do it this year on our anniversary, which was about a month ago now, but there was too much going on financially that even throwing a modest party with the budget constraints was going to create problems. We both had job disruptions in the last months of 2024, and things have just been a bit to hard financially to really bother.
We’re starting to save for next year already. Planning shall begin soon.
I am not married to my husband for legal reasons. This means when he dies, his family could take everything and leave me with nothing as I’m “just the girlfriend”. Now, a will can help, but I dread what would happen because they still could fight it and it sucks. Being legally married basically shuts that down entirely.
Tax advantages, makes managing your estate easier if one of you dies, social status, etc.
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Kids. Being married before you have kids is huge in some states and important in many. In my state unmarried father’s have no rights to children even if they sign the birth certificate. Sure you can adopt, but that’s far more expensive than a marriage certificate.
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Protection in the case of breakup or divorce. You have rights to shared property in a divorce, you have no rights to anything you didn’t buy or put in your name otherwise. You can sort of solve this with making a partnership and putting all assets into it, but it’s not quite the same and far more complicated. Also if you aren’t the breadwinner, there isn’t really a way to ensure spousal support without a marriage.
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Legal protections. You can’t be compelled to testify against a spouse. While you can do things like medical power of attorney, you don’t get it by default like marriage, which means you either need that document on hand at all times or in an emergency situation you could be prevented access or decision making authority until you provide documentation. There’s also social security, you can draw on a spouse, but there isn’t an equivalent, same for pensions that offer survivor benefits.
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Insurance benefits from employers generally require you to be married.
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There aren’t many benefits, I’m committed to my partner and we’ve been together for 7 years now. She’s my life partner. Getting married doesn’t offer much that you can’t already do with other legal documents, such as getting the same rights to them in medical situations as you do with marriage. Tax benefits maybe
Neither of us want to get married because it does nothing for us, were already each others partners, even if we did, after marriage I would still refer to her as my life partner instead of wife.
Plus her very religious family desperately want us to marry and we both want to keep denying them that pleasure as early on in our relationship they were adamant we would split up if we didn’t get married before living together.
It greatly simplifies life from a legal standpoint. It’s basically like creating a tiny corporation of two people that can act as a single legal entity. If you’re married it simplifies buying a house together, inheritance, medical decisions, etc. As others have pointed out, these are important especially when your partner’s family don’t approve of you or the relationship especially for LGBT people.
I am going to break the mold though and say the actual ceremony is important too. Declaring your intention to stay together for life in front of your friends and family changes things. It adds a level of security and finality to the relationship- you have to put your money where your mouth is on the relationship. Although people frequently do it, I don’t know how someone can go through the wedding process without reflecting on how big of a deal it is to stand up in front of so many of your friends and family and declare your intention to stay together forever, even without the religious ritual aspect of it. I wouldn’t want to have kids with someone without having this commitment, for example. Ultimately even though marriage is a social construct, I think it’s still a useful one even in a world where women are no longer considered property of men.
My defacto partner and I have been together for 12 years. We’ve been trying to have kids for 6 years or so and got lucky with twins 2 years ago.
Being married wouldn’t strengthen our bond or commitment in any way.
It’s a shame my partner doesn’t have the same surname as our kids. I’ve been meaning to ask her how she feels about it.
I wasn’t married when I had my child. Chose to hyphenate. I’m unsure how I feel for your wife if this topic didn’t come up two years ago, goodness
I’m not quite sure what you mean to imply.
The topic of marriage did come up 6 years ago when we decided to have kids. At that time we decided it didn’t have much meaning for us.
We didn’t really think about her family name at that time.
When the kids were born she was emphatic that they should have my family name. She actually has a family name from a previous marriage, which wouldn’t be appropriate for our kids, and she’s estranged from her actual family so didn’t want her maiden name.
Since the kids have been born this has been in the back of my mind and I’ve been meaning to address it, I assume it’s on her mind too.
Honestly, just attending to all the things that need to be done in the last 2 years has been very challenging. This just hasn’t been a priority.
Also for context, de facto relationships have legal standing in Australia. So the law treats us as though we were married. Our situation is not uncommon.
I mentioned it to my sisters who suggested she could just use my family name as an alias, or just change her name to our family name, or we could elope. If she wanted to hyphenate that would be up to her of course but knowing her as I do I doubt she will want to.
Hey i wasn’t trying to be hard on you, sorry it came off that way. I’m not married either, and been with my, what we call, common law “husband” for many many years now. The last name thing is complicated for me too, you dont gotta explain to defend your choices, I don’t care what other folks do in their lives, not hurting anyone.
I just laughed and am knocking on you saying youve been meaning to ask her how she feels about the situation, and you’ve “been meaning to ask” for two years since you had the kids, goofball