All hail the Unimog!
Biblically accurate transmission
“How many hydraulic levers you need?”
“All of them”
“How many hydraulic-driven pieces of equipment does your rig have?”
“Mind your own business”
you aren’t supposed to show people what the control panel to the mcflurry machine looks like
As a classically trained driver I’ve found automatics make people drive worse because they have to think less. And they already barely think.
Manual occupies their phone hand. How is someone supposed to heart content so the algorithm gives them more of it!
Using the PRiNDle opens one up for so many activities.
What the fuck is a “classically trained driver”?
He was taught by the same institute that taught Beethoven to drift.
Didn’t go to one of those lousy postmodern driving schools I think
Like Robert Wells or Bill Nye.
like going to a prestigious school for drivers? julihart for driving?
Mom took him to a big office building parking lot on a Sunday when it was quiet. At least that’s how this classically trained driver learned.
I’ve actually observed the opposite. Automatics leave more brain cells to focus on traffic.
“Self driving” cars on the other hand…
They use them to focus on their phones, not the road
That’s just a type of driver though. They come in all transmissions.
Do you sing an aria by Mozart or something when you drive? But anyway, in my experience driving manual makes people more distracted because they have to think about gears and the clutch and stuff. Sure, a competent driver will not have any difficulty with that, but there’s an awful lot of them out there that don’t quite fall into that category.
No I let my exhaust do the singing. It’s like playing a really simple pipe organ.
You must not know how to drive a manual. When you know how to drive one, you don’t think about it. You just do it. You feel connected to the car and connected to the act of driving. Automatics absolutely allow people to go on autopilot and they focus on anything but driving: stuffing their face with food, browsing lemmy, texting, talking on their phone on speaker while holding it up to their mouth for some fucking reason even though it would be easier and better sound quality to just hold it up to their ear like phones were designed to be used, or you know, just use the fucking hands free phone calling that’s built into every fucking car that was made in the last decade and a half and included in every cheap ass aftermarket stereo system available on the planet
I’ve driven manual for over 30 years. Back in the day automatic transmissions were slow, clunky and inefficient. When I first tried modern one, I was instantly converted. Like, I also don’t want to manually adjust rotation speed on my washing machine, why would I do it in the car? Driving electric takes it to a whole new level. It just frees up mind share for concentrating on traffic. There’s no guarantee people will actually do that, of course. And if you think that things that are subconscious don’t take up mind share, you don’t know much about how the brain works. And if you think drivers on manual are less distracted, I have news for you too. I guess you live in the US, where driving manual is a choice. Here it’s mainly in cheaper, older cars which are driven by people who don’t much care about cars or driving.
You’re wrong
Only just noticed Your username. For a moment I thought You were serious.
If I was serious I’d say no human is sane enough to drive.
Stupid is as stupid does. A significant portion of trucking accidents involve the truck driver missing a cue because they were mid gear change.
While it is good to have a person learn to drive stick, it is really hard to get people to learn how to drive if they have zero interest in actually learning how to be a driver, no matter what transmission.
I personally like dual clutch transmissions and daily’ed a car to 175k miles with one, yet I went out of my way to find a manual version of my current car.
US: predominantly automatic transmission, low speed limits
Germany: predominantly manual transmission, higher speed limits and no limits on around half of autobahns (motorways)
US road deaths per capita twice of Germany.
Draw your own conclusions.
Probably more related to the god-awful infrastructure design in the US, like stroads and an unfathomable tendency to use stop signs for a lot of things they are just not fit for, like to replace speed bumps, chicanes, and roundabouts.
Also the better comparable statistic should be deaths per distance traveled in cars.
Here is the list 6.9 vs 4.2 deaths per 1 billion km. 12.8 vs. 3.35 per 100’000 inhabitants.
But you need both for a fuller puncture, not everyone involved/dieing is in a vehicle.
Not to mention the DUI rates in the US are astronomical. Over 1/3 of motor fatalities are alcohol related in the US.
Germany has much stricter requirements to get a driver’s license. That leads to better driving skills on average.
Chicanes are the best part about riding a sport bike! I get to drag knees on public roads!
Public roads are not a racetrack. You never know when there’s going to be a kid chasing a ball or something around the corner.
I would, but I ran out of crayons
What if we’re too American to draw an appropriate conclusion from that?
Quick Google
In 2024 36% of Germans reported using the car daily.
In 2023 95.3% of Americans older than 16 drive on occasions.
83 million Germans, 63% above 16
340 million Americans, 65% above 16
52 million potential drivers in Germany, 17 million actually drive
221 million potential drivers in America, 210 million drive daily
17 million vs 210 million daily drivers
~12x more drivers, only 2x more death
Per capita isn’t really a way to look at it
Besides automatic cars or lack of a manual transmission is not causing accidents.
Chance of death goes up significantly with speed
No one has ever crashed because they couldn’t go over the speed limit
Downvoters mad to find out cars are inherently unsafe and need very good infrastructure and to be remotely safe.
Downvoters mad that Ek= ½mv2, and speed, funnily enough, is dangerous.
Downvoters mad that manual transmission isn’t making cars safer.
Car go vroom vroom, but public transport go better
Fax
It’s been difficult to find manual transmisssions for a couple of decades here in the US. That ship has sailed.
While most of my life I vowed my kids would learn manual, I gave up on that idea because
- manual transmission cars are rare and disappearing
- automatics now are more fuel efficient
- CVT are reliable and even more efficient
- EVs don’t shift
My kids started driving in a world of automatics and will soon be in a world with no transmissions
cvts are reliable
Now THAT’S a statement made by the utterly deranged
I think he is confusing CVT with the toyota eCVT which is quite different and is actually reliable
The Prius system is a modern marvel and deserves a better name than eCVT.
Belt type CVTs are trash. I don’t care that your Subaru has 57,000 trouble free miles, it’s going to die.
If they aren’t made by Nissan, they are.
Subaru
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10231303-0001.pdfHonda
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10236086-0001.pdfGM
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10213745-9999.pdfMitsubishi
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2024/MC-10252683-0001.pdfChrysler uses the Nissan trans and they are king of the shit heap.
Belt CVTs - I’m right there with you, but take a look into the more modern geared CVTs such as Toyota e-CVT in their hybrids - I think Honda have a similar tech. It’s a planetary gear system that provides infinite gears without the rubber band feel that plagued belt CVTs and hella-reliable.
https://youtu.be/vHc-_E8xWnM?si=tzCJWXHmC9T5GCpx
I’m a petrolhead at heart and would love more options for manuals but in lieu of that, a geared CVT is by far the next best transmission and 100x better than a traditional auto.
Even better, jump in one and take it for a drive - because there are gears, it feels more connected to the motor - almost manual-like response and no sluggish delay like a traditional auto.
You literally pick your revs by pushing the throttle more or less, they’re magic for hills or when the car is packed since you’re never waiting for revs to climb up into the power nor holding a speed because any faster and you have to change again which takes you out of the power again. If you want more power, you simply modulate that with the throttle and the revs rise instantly to accommodate.
I’ve had a Subaru CVT for 10+ years with over 200k miles no issues. Anecdotal yes, but I’ve grown fond of the CVT feel, it’s smooth, I like it.
CVTs are good for tractors that need a wide range of torque ratios but still stay automated.
They’re good for go karts and for auto manufacturers that want their product to be worthless about time you pay it off.
EVs don’t shift
I know there’s no reason for them to, but a small part of me wishes there was. Something so satisfying about being good at managing gears
So true. I’ve never been more tempted to keep a classic car, even if it’s just an old shit box with manual transmission.
I seem to recall some EV having a 2 speed transmission. A modern one, not like the Electrek that had a 5 speed manual
When I learned how to drive, manual transmissions were higher performance and better fuel efficiency: side by side comparisons of the exact same model of car would show better 0-60 and quarter mile times, while having slightly better EPA fuel efficiency ratings, for the manual transmission.
At some point, though, the sheer number of gears in an automatic transmission surpassed those in the typical manual gearbox, and the average automatic today has 6 gears, up to 9 in some Mercedes and 10 in certain Ford and GM models. So they could start selecting gear ratios for better fuel efficiency, without “wasting” a valuable gear slot. There was a generation of Corvettes that was notorious for having a 6th gear that was worthless for actual performance but helped the car sneak by with a better highway fuel mileage rating.
And the automatics became much faster at shifting gears, with even the ultra high performance supercars shifting to paddle shifters where the driver could still control the gear, but with the shifting mechanism automated. Ferrari’s paddle shifter models started outperforming the traditional stick shift models in the early 2000’s, if I remember correctly. As those gear shifting technologies migrated over to regular automatics, the performance gap shrunk and then ended up going the other way.
At this point there’s not enough reason for a true manual stickshift transmission. It’s no longer faster or more economic, so it’s just a pure fun. Which is fine, but does make it hard to actually design one for any given model of car.
In the US it’s not really even cheaper - as in maybe you could save a couple hundred on a few models but most won’t offer a choice and it’s nothing in proportion to the cost of the car and the chances of finding one are so small it’s not even worth trying for most cars. There may be a few - are jeeps still available?
My favorite car was a Miata with a stick (even though I’m too tall to fit) - maybe I need to track down an older one before they’re gone forever
Had a manual 2016 Mazda 3. Took a bit to find it with all the options I wanted but it was available at the time.
Isn’t the civic si series all manual?
The Si and the R! They both sell like hotcakes, waited 8 months for my 2024 Si. I’m not sure why Honda doesn’t increase the volume, there’s still a lot of demand - maybe the margins aren’t as good as their SUVs :(
Wow I had no idea, that’s crazy. I went with the 2024 sport touring because I do city driving 90% of the time, but that Si looked NICE
I bought a civic in 2006 and it took 6 weeks to get one. A manual would have taken much longer
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What the hell is this design.
Bringing back the classics! Great-grandad had one, he’d be right at home.
I had a Rambler Ambassador that came with push-button shifting on the dash!
Bruh, that’s almost worse than Tesla
Daddy needs his coffee.
Seriously, the automatic is so much better for using a truck as a tool. I still drive a stick right now and I’m lucky I miss rush hour most days because we start and end early, one job site.
I’d never choose a manual for dealing with taking tools and materials around the Metro while the assholes I’m trying to service cut me off in stop and go traffic.
And IMO we need to start racing EVs, leave combustion for the 20th century old timer events
oshit I have been bamboozled by a shitpost
I love my automatic transmission and cruise control, but I do think that I may have been a better driver when I drove stick. By necessity, I had to pay closer attention to the road than I have to today.
Just by realizing that you probably pay more attention than 90% of those goblins on the road.
It helps you become more innately aware of your speed. Gear (which you know either by remembering which one you last shifted to or by touching your shifter) and rpm (which you know by ear and responsiveness) are enough (once you become familiar enough with the vehicle) to have a good idea of how fast you’re going without even glancing at the speedometer.
Also engine braking gives more control over speed and I’m used to doing it, so can add the action to emergency situations without having to think about it so much.
Though the comparison is different when the paddle shifters are involved. I still prefer stick shift over that semi-auto style, but see that as more of a personal preference than technically superior. If anything, semi-auto is probably the superior one.
Though I’d also add the caveat of the technical differences between all three not being significant overall in practical terms. The biggest difference is probably just that driving MT takes additional skill that not everyone has or is comfortable learning/using. Which is nice as an anti theft feature but can be annoying if you want to trade off driving but the other drivers can’t drive your vehicle.
Big oil forced that shit onto you instead of going the far superior EV route from the beginning. Now EVs are finally taking over and I’m happy my kids never have to get fuel grease on their hands and suffer those nasty fumes at gas stations. Shifters were needed for an inferior technology to work. I liked it as an experience when I learned to drive. But cars are mostly transport due to failure of better public transport infrastructure. I don’t care whether they’re fun. I drive for fun on the Xbox or maybe in a GoKart every few years.
Oh that felt good to rant.
EVs weren’t viable for long distance travel before though. Like batteries didn’t have the energy density they have today. The advancements in battery tech relied heavily on the advancements in computing tech. Like for battery research, manufacturing, battery management. And research in computer technology has never stopped.
Even if they never stopped making electric cars, they would have stayed short distance vehicles for a long time since battery tech didn’t advance fast enough. We might have gotten long distance EVs a decade sooner but definitely not decades. And fast charging is also only possible because of miniaturization of computer chips, nobody would’ve bought an EV that can travel less than 100km and take a full day to charge for their primary mode of transportation .
I’m sure batteries would have progressed more quickly if they had been chosen as the preferred path 100 years ago.
With Tesla burning right now (sometimes literally), I’m concerned for the future of EVs.
There are other EV-only makers, most notably in my mind, rivian, but not many others come to mind.
Most other manufacturers have either stopped making EVs entirely, or switched to hybrid, or hybrid adjacent technologies. Honda is a good example of this backpedaling. They dipped their collective toes into EVs with proper hybrid vehicles during the pre-pandemic years. Between 2015 and 2020 (ish) they had a PHEV, the clarity. It was discontinued in 2020. I forget if the last model year was 2019 or 2020. Either way, I still kind of want one… Regardless, they took everything they learned and put it into their fancy new e-CVT, which essentially, at most speeds, turns the gasoline motor of the vehicle into a generator, powering an electric motor that drives the wheels.
Don’t get me wrong, that’s still more efficient than burning the Jurassic forests to drive motion, but it’s not as efficient as running the drive motor from batteries that were charged from green sources.
Most other manufacturers have done something similar in abandoning BEVs for HEVs or whatever Honda is doing. There’s a few stand out exceptions, like the F150 lightening. Good on you Ford… But the list is pretty short, especially compared to the fuel based alternatives.
It’s a good time for other companies to pick up the ball that Tesla dropped here, and I’m hoping they do. … I mean, they won’t because they’re too busy buying yachts with all that fossil fuel bribe money they get, but I can dream.
BYD is doing just fine, your shitty protectionist government just won’t allow you to buy them.
… Which is probably why I had no idea they exist.
BYD and xiaomi produce more EVs than American manufacturers produce vehicles in total.
The future of EVs is secure and the majority of drivers on earth will be driving one by 2050. Just not in the US, Canada, UK or other failed states.
Apart from China, Hyundai/Kia is producing really great EVs. And the German brands have viable ones that might eventually catch up to Korea and China now that they’re taking it more seriously. Renault is really getting it lately and even Stellantis is coming with new platforms that are pretty good. The Japanese have invested more in anti-EV-propaganda than in EVs.
We have a Hyundai Kona from 2019 and it’s an amazing car. Every single person who ever tried it never wants to drive an ICE again. And this is an old low-to-mid-end vehicle. Our next EV is definitely going to be a lot better.
My only real personal problems with EVs, have nothing to do with them being electric.
Early EVs all looked like science experiments… I’ll give some examples. The Nissan leaf. The BMW i3. And a more recent example is the VW ID.Buzz mini bus thing.
I want a car, not a statement piece, and until recently, Tesla seemed to be the only ones selling EVs that didn’t look dramatically different than other cars on the road. I just want a car. I want it to use volts instead of gasoline.
The second issue I have has more to do with the automobile market than EVs… Everyone seems to have a sport crossover or SUV converted to EV, but very few have just plain sedans, and those that do, a nontrivial number of them violate the first complaint.
I like EVs, I want to drive an EV, but I don’t want it to look like it’s straight out of someone’s LSD trip. That’s just not groovy man … I’m not a fan of SUVs, I just want a small sedan or coupe that’s normal except it uses batteries instead of Jurassic remains.
Well, our Kona is a weird crossover-y thing but otherwise literally identical to its ICE brothers.
Maybe Peugeot, Citroen and similar are what you are after? The new Peugeot 308 electric is pretty “boring” - it’s not an amazing EV but better than what they had before
Unfortunately Peugeot and Citroen are not names I’ve ever seen for cars sold here.
I have, of course, heard of both mentioned at some point, but here in Canada, neither seem to be brands we can buy. I’m not sure why that is, I have never felt the need to look into it.
Our major players are GM, Ford, Honda, Hyundai, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, BMW, Mercedes, VW, Kia, and all their subsidiaries (off the top of my head). Not sure if I missed any major ones there… There is of course some more niche companies but they’re not really on my radar, so to speak… I’ve also omitted Tesla on purpose for obvious reasons.
Hyundai only has hybrid sedans, some plug in hybrid, which is better than most, beyond that we’re stuck with mostly SUVs and light trucks as EVs, or whatever designer-looking monstrosity someone wants to release… The story seems to be the same across all major players, to the point where I just kind of gave up the search a few years back, for the most part. Anything I’ve looked up or looked at since seems to follow the same trends.
Did you see the Hyundai Ioniq 6? Or the very new Kia EV4? They look very “modern” but then again I’d say ICE cars are constantly changing design too.
ICE cars are absolutely changing designs all the time. There are plenty of ICE car designs that I don’t like too.
The difference is that generally there will be a couple of EV designs, but there will be a dozen ICE designs. There’s simply more to pick from on the ICE side. So if I want something that fits a design aesthetic, I have a much better chance to find it as an ICE car than an EV.
I widely considered the model S to be a great EV design for a really long time, though I swore I wouldn’t buy one. Before the whole Elon Musk drama recently, my main reasons were about how they treated after market/used/rebuilt vehicles, owners, and anyone with the gall to dare try to fix their own vehicle… And also the “walled garden” of Tesla. Making it difficult or impossible to get something like a third party charger for home, among a long list of other complaints.
I’ve been aware of the writing on the wall with Tesla for a while, and I reserved judgement for the most part, only committing to not placing myself in that situation, and thinking that anyone who can accept what I will not, does so at their own risk. It brings me no joy to see that I was right on most fronts. They still have some wonderful designs.
Largely, the S stands out… Especially early S models. More recent models started to trend into basically being larger model 3 vehicles; I don’t like a few of the key design features of the model 3. Specifically, I don’t like that you have a barren dashboard. There’s nothing in front of you. The S had a driver information screen that showed all the usual things, like your speed, energy remaining, trip, odometer, etc. All the things that you would expect from an instrument cluster. I wasn’t a HUGE fan of the middle screen for infotainment, but as long as it was limited to noncritical features and infotainment, I’m mostly okay with it (mainly that it has no physical buttons) provided that the critical driving components, features and controls were separate.
I acknowledge that this is entirely a personal preference.
Bluntly, if Tesla as a company wasn’t as exclusionary to other EVs and manufacturers, and treated DIY/used/repair markets fairly, I might already be driving one. Obviously, even if they completely change all of their policies and evict the guy at the top, I’m not going for a Tesla… Even then, I’m pretty on the fence given that they’re burned at this point (aka cancelled).
I’m keeping an eye out for something, I’ll probably stick with the vehicle I have four now unless I can get a great deal on a used PHEV like the Honda clarity (which is now discontinued, RIP). There’s a few oddities about the clarity I don’t like, but on the whole it looks like a solid car. The rear tires being partially covered is odd IMO.
In any case, I can’t really afford to get a new car at this point, maybe late this year things will change on that front, but given the state of the economy, inflation and average earnings, things might get worse too. Financially I have two major events happening around October that might make it possible to buy a new car: we will be able to update our mortgage (hopefully with a lower cost), and I’m on track to pay off a major debt I have. If I have my finances under control and in a good place when both of those happen, then I may start looking around for a vehicle again, provided the economy doesn’t go down the toilet by then.
I don’t have confidence that the economy will be good by then because since I’m in Canada, the United States and their insane commander and chief, can absolutely put our economy into a downward trend.
I’m not putting my money on it being fine. I’m going to get myself into a better position before I reassess.
Regardless, if you’ve read my ramblings this far down, you have my respect. I hope you have a wonderful day, and I look forward to talking with you again in the future on here. Be well.
My Volkswagen flashes a message when I put the key in the ignition; “Depress clutch to start”
So I tell it that the majority of Yanks don’t know how to use it and it starts every time.
You guys do realize this is supposed to be a parody of boomer bullshit arguments right?
They don’t, and that’s the way I like 'em!
Yeah but I love my manual tbh
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Manuals are infinitely more fun to drive and I like to manipulate the performance characteristics of the car myself but they’re probably going extinct to EV which is fine.
Not just EVs, modern beltless CVTs and automatic transmissions make manual transmissions practically obsolete. With a wider set of gear ranges and way better performance and reliability they’re better in almost every way than a stick shift. That said, doesn’t matter how good a transmission is if it’s undersized for the engine, so I’m not say the transmission in any particular vehicle is good, just the tech has developed in recent years
those transmissions are only better on paper. sure they could be theoretically better but in practice the transmission programming is to way over aggressively upshift in order to miser out a little more fuel economy on paper (but in practice they waste fuel)
True, and as someone who’s been driving the same stick shift for almost 15 years now, you can take it from my cold dead hands. I haven’t seen anything with a beltless cvt, and I haven’t seen an automatic transmission I like more than my five speed, except in traffic. The tech exists, although it’s not available.
Oh good I got here before the lemmy fuck cars brigade showed up
LET’S FUCKING TAKE THE BUS
Seriously the funniest thing talking to immigrants in the US is them reminiscing about being able to buy high quality produce, food, tools, clothing, gifts, books, etc by walking down the street or taking a bike a few blocks away. Also people daily taking vans, busses, and trains to get to work or school.
Meanwhile our transport setup is so bad, people have successfully marketed ship to your house meal prep boxes which is actually such an insane first world problem when you think about it.
Hi, !fuckcars mod here. I absolutely love my manual transmissions and unironically fully endorse this meme.
I think you might be surprised at just how much crossover there is between car enthusiasts and people who hate car dependency. Cars ought to be like horses: they should be available for enthusiasts to play with, but it should be wholly unnecessary and considered kinda ridiculous to use them as routine transportation, especially in cities.
Frankly, I would prefer it if all transmissions were manual, as it would help encourage people who see driving as a chore to use other transportation modes instead.
Yeah I honestly love driving, but I love walking and biking too. Just because I’m a car enthusiast doesn’t mean that I don’t wish that my city was more walkable or had actual public transport.
Manual is hell for people with back or knee issues.
Clutches are for the weak. Grind em till you find em.
Person with back and knee issues here: worth it to not have to deal with a slushbox that won’t downshift when I need it to. I’ll never give up my manual.
Eh, automatic cars will let you go into “manual” mode in which you tell it when to switch the gears. Mildly useful for steep hills to stop it from switching back and forth in some rare scenarios.
Not every automatic has that. Not to mention that there tends to be input lag when you hit the paddle, and there’s the fact that they won’t hold a gear when you need them to (instead they tend to automatically upshift right before redline). Manual mode is no substitute for a real manual.
Even the oldest automatics would let you lock it to a lower gear if you needed it.
Just curious, what kind of terrain did you encounter that seem to cause such issues with wrongly shifting gears?
Flat asphalt.
Like for example when you need to accelerate quickly to get around/avoid something. Most automatics I’ve driven will often shift into second too soon unless you drive aggressively, and absolutely refuse to drop back down to first gear—no matter how hard you stomp the accelerator pedal—even if there’s still plenty of room left in the rev range.
The only ones I’ve driven will not shift when you kick the gas pedal down, precisely to let you accelerate faster.
Yeah I’ve got regular back and ankle issues. It’s annoying when they flare up but really not that bad. Unfortunately manuals are harder and harder to find so this will likely be my last
Electric cars have no transmission. If you buy electric, there are no stick shifts because electric cars only have one gear (with very few exceptions, and even then you’d just have 2 gears.)
Idk how this plays into the joke, but it’s a neat fact.
Technically they have at least 2 “gears”, forward and reverse. But does it really count if all you do is shout at the angry pixies to run the other way?
i miss my stick
There must be a trans joke in here somewhere.
don’t eat the crab dip!
Happens at higher age
The perfect transmission UI was the Teletouch on the Ford Edsel. And if anyone tries to argue I’ll say “nuh uh,” run away, and cry.
Agreed
