Musk:
-supposedly has autism
-autistic people sometimes make weird faux paus
To me, it looks like it’s clearly a Hitler salute and the logical conclusion is he’s a white supremacist. But I am just wondering if everyone else sees this that way with no room for it being a result of autism and definitely that.
Is there any possibility it could have been accidental? Or was he doing a Hitler salute, then “oh it was an accident” (wink) sort of thing? Did he apologize?
Lots of people on lemmy are really smart so I’m interested to read what people think.
The whole thing makes me really uncomfortable with buying from companies that have x profiles. I just don’t see how that coukd be accidental and it seems like no one cares.
There was this period before WWII when stuff started happening to reduce the rights of minorities, but they weren’t being killed blatantly. Is this where we are? I feel more scared to be in America now.
Yea sure - but it doesn’t matter. It could have mattered but his reaction to the reaction means it doesn’t.
If you accidentally do a nazi salute and then someone says “Hey bro, you really shouldn’t do a nazi salute” and another dude says “Hey bro, white power! I’m glad you’re on our side” and your immediate reaction isn’t “Oh fuck guys, I didn’t know that was a nazi salute, I fucking hate nazis” then, well, you did a nazi salute.
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Elon did a thing.
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People said “That’s a nazi thing”.
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Elon didn’t immediately say “No, I didn’t do the nazi thing.”
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∴ Elon is a nazi.
It’s also not like the fucker doesn’t have the ability to issue a statement correcting the public perception. He literally owns fucking X and the media salivate over his press releases.
If you accidentally do a nazi salute and then someone says “Hey bro, you really shouldn’t do a nazi salute”
I like to think about how a person like that would react if they accidentally “acted gay”. Can you imagine how much they would trip over themselves trying to make sure people knew it was a mistake?
If you don’t have that level of response to being called a Nazi, you’re probably a Nazi.
And if they work that hard to make sure everyone knows they’re not gay, then bonus! You also found out that they’re homophobic.
No, I don’t agree with this at all.
I grew up in the 90s when being gay was “bad” (societys words, not mine). I live in Cleveland, but a suburb of Cleveland is Lakewood. San Fransisco is Americas gayest city. Lakewood is (was?) Americas second gayest city (at least in the 90s it was).
I lived right on the Lakewood border. About 7 streets away. And just to give an idea of how anti-gay the 90s were, I can remember a guy getting handcuffed to a chain link fence, and beaten by 4 men with bats. Beaten to literal death. With his dead body lay prone and still handcuffed from 2:30am until 7am on a busy street until a mother called the police as she walked her 5 year old to school (this was 2 blocks from an elementary school)
That’s the environment I grew up in. People CONSTANTLY accused me of being gay. I’m not. I never have been gay. But I grew up being taught you better make sure you deny it. If nothing else, so people don’t beat you.
Now I realize, we no longer live in that social environment. But I also assume Jews in Europe in the 1960s still would downplay the fact they were Jewish. Sure, the nazis weren’t a thing anymore, but if you’d seen the holocaust you wouldn’t take chances either.
Plus, being a teenager in the 90s, I thought “If the girls think I’m gay, I’ll never get laid…” which was true. They still thought I was gay, and I didn’t get to date until after high school.
And thats how I stay today. I have enough of an uphill battle to dating. I don’t need women disqualifying me for something that isn’t true.
Now if YOU wanna be gay, go ahead. I always think if more guys are gay, that makes things easier for me.
I’m not saying that just because someone says you’re gay, you can’t correct them without being homophobic. I’m saying that the people that people that go out of their way to make sure everyone knows they’re not gay, who get offended at the idea of being mistaken for gay are acting homophobic.
I grew up in approximately the same era as you in a very conservative area, and yeah, there was a lot of homophobic behavior and slurs. But if someone asked if I was gay in this day and age, I think anything more than a quick correction is over-reacting.
But hey, that’s just my opinion; you’re welcome to yours. Have a good day friend!
Based on your persuasive arguments, ive decided to be gay.
That’s so gay
Good choice. We have the best sex.
This is the weirdest homophobic and also misogynistic take I’ve read. You took “I’ve got nothing against the gays, but…” to a new deranged level.
He’s like only part way there. I grew up in the 90s too when being gay was “bad”. In my younger years I would have absolutely said I’m not homophobic but would have made damn sure no one thought I was gay. Spoiler alert. It was homophobic even if I didn’t realize it. However in my older years I recognize that for what it was.
Point of order. He didn’t do a Nazi salute. He did two, within five seconds, on national television, at the inauguration.
You would think the crowd of people would have stepped in at that point but clearly they’re all in as well.
First time in years I’ve seen the ‘therefor’ three dots!
∴ - copying to notes as I don’t think it’s available on Android keyboards.
I always just search the web for “<symbol> unicode” when I need something obscure. Then again I’m old ;_;
I didn’t even know it existed in the first place. I’m going to show my grandfather and see if he’s seen it before. I expect he has since he’s a retired english/history teacher
edit: he has seen it before, but he couldn’t remember what it meant.
I remember it from ‘introductory formal logic’ back in my (failed) uni days.
It kinda had a language of its own, similar to how mathematics has < > etc
It’s crazy to me that people are denying it.
<inAnAlternateReality>
Elon did a thing.
People said “That’s a nazi thing”.
Elon immediately said “No, I didn’t do the nazi thing.”
People said “we don’t believe you”.
∴ Elon is a nazi.
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Have you actually watched it? It was clearly a fascists/nazi salute. People who say otherwise simply don’t want to admit it.
This. It’s the new litmus test for Nazi apologists.
I did watch it and it scared me. No companies are cancelling twitter accounts, no one is crushing their Teslas into a cube, everyone just seems apathetic (except AOC)
I thought it looked kind of like he was flailing like an idiot. If it was a nazi salute (which is definitely possible) then it was a poorly done one (which tracks for him).
It doesn’t matter.
It REALLY doesn’t matter.
If he was doing a Nazi salute, the consequences are obvious. If he was doing something “like” a Nazi salute but can plausibly deny it, the result is exactly the same; and that means that the intent is the same, even if it is proven (magically!) that it wasn’t a Nazi salute.
This is the result:
The Nazis of the world all saw it, and took it as a sign of unity. Nothing else matters.
Now Musk may or not may be autistic, but I know several autistic people (plus one with Tourette Syndrome, long ago) and you know what? Not a single one of them has done anything like a Nazi salute.
“Heil Hitler” as a phrase and a salute is fairly unique: It is something that is absolutely burned into the memory of most of humanity, regardless of language, culture, or society. Nobody with Musk’s worldly knowledge and experience would accidentally do something that close to a Nazi salute. Hell, an eight year old from Latvia wouldn’t accidentally do something like that. The knowledge and the taboo are absolutely burned into our collective consciousness.
There is absolutely zero chance whatsoever that Musk didn’t know what he was doing.
And even if that’s true, it honestly doesn’t matter.
No. In my opinion.
He has demonstrated a propensity for political action up to and including world changing meddling in democracies.
His person demands enough yearly salary from Tesla to cure cancer.
He cites history and in my recollection claims no ignorance of history.
It may be technically possible that it was a faux pas, but it is not feasibly a faux pas and is inexcusable even if it was one.
Nah, as an autistic person who works with many autistic people (I am a support worker), no. Autistic people are able to miss things, mistake social cues, and so on, but blaming autism for a Nazi salute is absolutely bullshit. Not to mention that he has done tonnes of other stuff which is in line with a Nazi salute and this is just the last in a long line of behaviours, and his family history etc, yeah, not autism, just Nazi shit.
If he did it once, it would have been an extremely low but still non-zero chance that it wasn’t a Nazi salute.
He did it twice though, it’s now firmly a 0% chance of any kind of coincidence, misunderstanding, etc.
Thus far he’s made no comment, not even to deny the Nazi intent.
No apology, no backtrack, no denial, he did it twice.
It was exactly what it appeared to be and nothing less.Thw twice in a row is meaninfful because that’s how the Nazi’s do it?
If it’s twice, it’s not a random twitch or awkward wave. He sieg heiled the front and the back
Because it clearly was an intentional gesture.
He was meddling with the afd in Germany, he’s proudly supports the apartheid in South Africa, and did a Nazi salute…
I mean, do we really need to spell it out for fucks sake?
He did the Nazi salute twice, intentionally.
He said “my heart goes out to you” because of plausible deniability. He was giving his followers an argument to deny that he did it intentionally, both to themselves and others.
He has not directly denied it nor apologized for it.
European leaders are acknowledging it for what it is. Neo-Nazis are acknowledging it for what it is, and they loved it.
People who are sincerely on the fence about this, admitted they actually exist, need to wake the fuck up.
If you do something horrible by accident, you apologize for it. The fact that he hasn’t, tells you everything you need to know.
I don’t think so. My case:
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Just at the level of fuckin eyeballing it, the comparisons to how Hitler did it to how Musk did it are pretty damning.
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I asked Germans on Lemmy if Musk would’ve gotten fined if he was anyone else and had done this at an event in Germany, the answer was a confident yes. I expect Germans know it when they see it, and know how not to fall foul of the law, so that’s another good test that says Musk knew what he was doing.
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Last and most damning is when you consider the context of the man himself. Musk has been directly sponsoring and promoting not just right wing but reactionary parties like AfD, MAGA, and whatever Nigel Farage’s fucking circus is called for years. You can also see this in how Twitter’s content is managed. The dude has been putting in lots of very visible work boosting Nazi messaging and actual Nazi politicians/parties. Is it REALLY such a shock that he would, ahem, stop hiding his power level in such a public way after a win like the 2024 election? I don’t think so, and especially not if you accept that Musk believes there’s not going to be another meaningful election. I don’t think the other oligarchs think so either, that’s why they’ve been so quick to fall in line and pay their tribute.
It’s time to face the music. Chat, we might be cooked.
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If it was an accident, he’d probably have apologized by now. But it really doesn’t matter either way. It’s too late now, he’s given license to the far right to see it as the endorsement they want.
Yeah, if any normal person did a nazi salute by accident, they’d be all over the news refuting it. If he isn’t, then it seems to default to being a nazi salute.
He has been a public figure for over a decade and has a dedicated PR team. He knew exactly what he was doing. I have autism, I know what it is like, there is no chance I would ever do this.
A detail of note is that he denies having autism and prefers the term aspbergers which is not recognized by the DSM-5. This is interesting begans Hans Aspberger was an ardent eugenicist with nazi ties. Elon Musk is a fascist and has been for a long time.
A detail of note is that he denies having autism and prefers the term aspbergers which is not recognized by the DSM-5. .
Honestly more likely reason is that he was diagnosed with Asperger’s before DSM-5, which was released only 12 years ago, and is just more comfortable with the term over autism which is unfortunately often used in a derogatory manner.
But that’s an interesting note regardless hehe
Damn, I had no clue about the links between Asperger’s and the Nazi scientist. It’s a good thing that it’s not a diagnosis anymore, because of the whole nazi science thing.
No.
The only way his autism is related is if he overestimated how funny it would be. But he 100% meant to do a Nazi salute. Twice, and then repeated a dog whistle to the 14-words.
then repeated a dog whistle to the 14-words
I missed that part. What was it?
“It is thanks to you that the future of civilization is assured.”
For reference:
“We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.”
Ironic source on the definition you’ve for there
People win elections all the time. People celebrate elections all the time. The last time somebody taking power did a gesture that looked like this was probably in Germany, 1933. This is no coincidence.
I don’t think they are nazis, I think they are fascists. And I don’t think they even think of themselves as fascists, I think they just think power sets the rules and that a lot of people on the left’s attempts at ‘fairness’ are dumb, and (they think) ‘well if you want to call that ‘fascism’ then you’re an overreacting bitter delusional leftie’
Or something like that
I suspect he did it to take the piss. And to signal to elements of the right / far right that they should breathe a little more freely
Same way his government department is “doge”. Same way he named Tesla’s products “S.E.X.Y”. Many many things he does are bait.
But do I think musk stands for what the Nazis did? No. And I think he, and his type, enjoy thinking it’s “ridiculous” that anyone thinks that. “Obviously” he doesn’t want to gas the Jews. “Obviously” he doesn’t think all black people should be lynched.
But I do think he thinks it’s ok trans people are made to fear. That sub cultures are made to feel unwelcome. That non-‘wasp’ lives are ruined whenever convenient. That checks and balances in government are as changeable as the furniture.
I think he thinks industry should serve a grand national vision.
I don’t think he gives a shit what that vision is as long as it involves him getting even more stupid wealthy
So this pretty much sums up fascism. He’s a fascist not a nazi…
I’ve met ironic Nazis before. Let me give you a spoiler, they’re actually just Nazis at the end of the day. The ironic bit is just a mask because they’re too chicken shit to admit it to themselves and others.
I think it’s fine to consider a fascist who does nazi salutes a nazi
It’s not a very interesting hair to split unless you’re perfectly fine with fascists who do nazi salutes but draw the line at people who identify as nazi
I think it’s a hair worth splitting because I find it very unlikely that he actually subscribes to the goals that the Germany Nazi party had. And I think he relies on this in order to cultivate the ‘owning the libs’ narrative he keeps with his supporters and acolytes. He’s fascist (and dangerous) and mischaracterising him plays into his hands to be honest…
That might be too narrow of a definition though. There may be self-identifying neo-nazis who don’t fit that. There were probably nazi party members who didn’t fit that, during the war.
There’s also no level of nuance that will impress the musk/trump supporters… they’ll consider “the libs” to be overreacting if someone said it was a gesture in slightly bad taste.
