Like the title says, are there any EVs that just have a Bluetooth radio and that’s it? Like a normal car, not a smartphone on wheels? If not, do you all think that this will actually happen at some point? This is the main reason why I can’t (and will never) buy an EV. I like to have actual buttons everywhere on my car. I think those massive tablets on these cars with all the touch buttons are very dangerous. I like an “entertainment system” that only connects to my phone with either a headphone jack of or Bluetooth. It’s a car, not a PC.
Not that I know of. Let smaller automakers make EVs and we might get something like that.
But with the federal government mandating that all cars must have automatic braking after a certain date in the future I guess we’re never going to get away from tons of sensors and computers in cars.
Automatic braking doesn’t require the level of tech that’s being packed into EVs these days
You could make automatic breaking without a full blown computer, but it’s so much cheaper to put a full-blown computer than it is to do it all in hardware. Everything uses turing complete equipment now, it’s actually less expensive at this point.
There’s absolutely no reason not to put multiple computers in the car I think the real win is not surfacing it to the end user.
“Tech” is a conflated term. The way I read OP is that they don’t want their cars main user interface to be a smartphone app. Doesn’t mean the car can’t be technologically advanced.
Exactly. If my car can connect to the internet then it has too much tech in it.
I mean, the government has mandated that all cars built since the 90s have to have a lot of computers and sensors for engine monitoring and emissions logging so that ship has long since sailed. Automatic braking is also credited with eliminating something like 1 in 5 fatalities in car accidents, so as long as we have any motorized vehicles around at all I don’t really have a problem with the government requiring manufacturers to spend the extra 20 dollars or so per vehicle it costs them to add a few ultrasonic sensors and a microcontroller it takes to slow the vehicle to the point where a driving into a pedestrian might just be survivable.
They also mandate a backup camera, so that means they need to have a screen.
Could put in a Polaroid exposer instead
I assumed from your title that you, like myself, are more concerned about the fact that EVs all seem to be “smart”, and cloud connected, and effectively hardware as a service to spy on you, and prevent repairs, and have software lockouts of features.
Like TVs, I think there’s no incentive for the companies with the ability to make dumb devices to actually make them. Adding all this functionality is unfortunately what people expect.
That and safety and I genuinely don’t care for bells and whistles, as they add to the cost unnecessarily. Whenever I needed a new car, I never bought new, I always bought second hand and made sure it’s the “lowest trim” of the model. So much cheaper for the same car. I come from a 3rd world country and am used to cars that just drive with no other purposes. So, why not save my money and also be safe, you know?
Yeah, historically that’s how it worked, fewer features meant less money. The difficult part today is, the cheapest products are being subsidized with these “smart” features. For cars, as well as most other products, they are able to charge less because they can harvest your data, or lock you into their repair shops, or show you ads. We’re now at the point where it costs more to have a bare bones device, and it’s cheaper to sell your soul to the company.
And unfortunately, buying second hand doesn’t get you out of it. Just like how digital purchases can’t be re-sold or traded, “smart” cars can be remotely locked down if they determine it’s been resold.
This twitter post used to be a story of a person who resold a tesla, only to have Tesla remotely downgrade the battery capacity because they determined they made a mistake when servicing a previous owner.
Are they’re any evs built with OpenSource in mind? Like its honestly cool that you can more closely control how they drive because it electronically controlled but tech enshitification makes most the stuff I’ve seen always tainted by it.
Tesla is built on top of Ubuntu with their own closed source spin. But yeah, that would be amazing if we had a completely FOSS system on some cars. I’d be willing to pay extra for it. Fuck, man. Shit is getting out of hands.
Wait, they’re closed-sourcing Ubuntu? Doesn’t the GPL say that any fork or derivative of any GPL’d product has to have the GPL? It’s supposed to propagate.
They were until they got in trouble a couple of years back for not contributing shit back. I think they have an “android” approach where they have their own shit running on top of Ubuntu now.
That explains… some
I don’t know actually. I’m sure there are open attempts to convert cars to electric. But if you mean something like level 1-3 autonomy, I would assume it would have to be approved by a regulating body, and I don’t think any open projects would have seeked that level of approval yet. It’s one thing for someone to root their phone and their camera doesn’t work, it’s another if they root their car and cause an accident.
It’s not a full car or even entertainment system, but comma.ai is an opensource autonomous driving software. Last time I looked into this was a few years ago, but basically for most newer cars you can rip out the adaptive cruise control, and effevtively replace it with autonomous driving. Either powered by certain supported phones or dedicated hardware.
Comma is super exciting for the driving assistance parts!
Open source is good for distributed projects. But because of economies of scale, remotely economical car manufacturing will always be centralized. That power gradient would make open source very difficult.
I guess I see potential as systems become more digital that they have more potential to be interchangeable. Kind like how computers hardware is.
You can use smart tvs as dumb screens though, just don’t connect it to internet. Is there a similar way for Evs?
Pi-holes all the way, ha!!!
Yeah, I only connect my TV to update it, and then immediately delete it’s internet connection.
And yes, unfortunately updates are necessary to be sure you’re getting all the functionality working correctly (ex. HDR compatibility). I’ve learned the hard way that the TVs don’t necessarily ship with perfect drivers.
As for cars, it’s not just the internet. Like apple products, they can make it impossible to repair without going to a licensed dealer. The technology has ways of making you play ball with them.
And even then, I wouldn’t put it past them to sneak a cell card into the car somehow to phone home whenever it wants to, regardless of whether you choose to connect it to the internet. I know they’ve offered this as a feature in the past, why not put it in and just not tell the customer?
Some tvs require you to connect to the internet to set up I believe. Cars have their own built in connection, (such as OnStar)so you can’t avoid connecting them in the first place since they come connected from the factory.
Chevy Bolt EV and EUV have buttons for everything you need to do while driving. It does have android auto/apple carplay but you don’t have to use it if you don’t want to.
If your hate only goes towards touchscreens and not having physical buttons, Mazda is (or at least was) very anti-touchscreen. I haven’t done any research on their current stance or if they have good EVs, but a neighbor of mine was really happy with his Mazda ICE car for having a button for everything.
I have a Mazda (not an EV) and am loyal to the brand because of their dial system. The dial makes it so easy to navigate menus without taking my eyes off the road for long
How Are mazdas? I’ve never even ridden in one, believe it or not. Tell me more, I’m interested. Lol
I have the 2021 Mazda3 Hatchback Premium Plus, so I have all the options (the COVID used car prices were great for when my previous one got totaled, the insurance company really paid out). It was brand new when I bought it. I have very few issues with it.
It’s quick, fun to drive, and feels really premium for not being priced insanely. I personally think it’s comfortable, but if you’re looking for more space, it’s probably not the way to go. For example, the front seats aren’t very usable with a rear-facing car seat in the back. The trunk space is pretty good imo. But I hate large cars in the first place.
I don’t use Android Auto or CarPlay because I enjoy the ease of use of the built-in system. The control scheme uses a dial between the seats where your arm rests, so it’s really easy to keep a hand on the wheel and navigate menus with it. There are also some quick buttons and a volume knob. The software could use a little work because sometimes album art doesn’t show up, but that’s mostly been fixed by changing Bluetooth settings on my phone. I truly don’t think there’s a better way to build a car control system.
I can’t speak on reliability of my own car, but my mom had a CX-5 and it seemed to last a good while without maintenance issues. I’ve personally had no problems so far. I’ve had good luck with Mazda dealership service too and I’ll probably stick with getting maintenance from them just so I can be sure someone who knows how those cars are built is working on it.
If Mazda comes out with an EV that has decent range and doesn’t utilize a touchscreen, I’d for sure get like, the 3rd or 4th generation of it (because 1st and 2nd Gen anything can suck.
That’s awesome. I really appreciate the details. I’ll keep an eye out for them, too. My 2016 Hyundai Tucson still kicks like a champ and I’m not planning on replacing it any time soon. I got the bumper to bumper extended warranty on it when I bought from the dealer and I still have at least 1.5 years left on it. I don’t drive much anyway, as I work from home and only go to the gym, or take the kids around town. That’s about it.
That’s awesome. Never knew that about Mazda.
I’ve owned nine cars, and the two Mazdas were my favorite. a 1999 Mazda 626 5 speed, and then the 2013 Mazda 3. I’ve been driving a 2022 Sentra for a couple years and the Mazda was better. I needed to upgrade to get Android auto and the safety features, but I wish I had upgraded to another Mazda
Hmmmm, y’all are making me like Mazda. Lol. Anyone likes Mitsubishi around here? Haha
their old SUVs were a lot of fun
Just get a Detroit Electric Model 82.
Man, I love this. It’s so cute.
My MY21 Hyundai Kona feels like a normal car without all those extra features. Lots of tactile buttons, there’s a headphone jack/USB. It’s really just a regular car with an EV engine.
That’s freaking awesome. I’ll check it out. I don’t really need a car now, but just wondering if we will turn into 100% smartphones on wheels
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Any good choices? Been thinking of getting an old civic and seeing if anyone local can do it.
If you’re going to go to all the trouble of an EV conversion, I’d suggest getting something stylish or with a nice interior (or whatever you prioritize) but a shitty/unreliable stock drivetrain, since you’re ripping it out anyway. In a sense, making a reliable Honda into an EV is a waste of a reliable Honda.
Also don’t touch our beloved nsx or integra. Unless it’s cooked then go right ahead!👍
Do you really think somebody would pay $300k+ for an NSX and convert it to EV?
I thought the same thing when someone converted a classic 911 into an ev. I mean they probably sold the drivetrain to other people but still.
I always liked the idea of converting an old e30 BMW
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I have a 2016 Hyundai Tucson that is almost paid off and works flawlessly. I actually never thought of conversion. I’ll have to look into that. Thank you.
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I mean, gasoline-powered cars are headed the same way. manufacturers realize they can make more money by forcing us to pay for software.
I know that Edison motors up in Canada makes conversion kits so you can turn your pickup truck or 18 wheeler into a hybrid. I’m sure there are people out there putting electric motors in regular cars, I’ve seen them do it with Porsches and mustangs
eBikes
While an amazing option for city commutes, mine is close to 100km daily. I have no idea if it’s possible to use an e-bike for that, but it would certainly take up even more of my limited free time to do so.
That’s pretty extreme commute, a deeply unsustainable one regardless of the type of power system in your car.
Yup, it is. Unfortunately, I had to endure that for close to a year (I will be assigned somewhere else this summer) and me and my colleagues had to carpool. Public transport would have been the best, but for that route the bus only goes twice a day.
Nevertheless, e-bikes are great if your commute isn’t that long!
So, you want them to sell their house now? Lol
Probably not available where you are but there are lots of Chinese options that are exactly this.
Some names would be appreciated
Mitsubishi has been selling one for nearly a decade. It’s not great.
Toyota has a Corolla hybrid that seems pretty close.
The issue is that why would they build a budget EV when they can sell an expensive, high margin, EV? The batteries are low supply, high demand so they should be wringing every dollar possible from it.
Things where federal and California regulations step in and force these vehicles into market.
I don’t think you can easily find new thermal cars without technology, so EVs
You should probably mention your jurisdiction ,but I’m in EU and have a Dacia , pretty goood lack of stupid/unnecessary features and the console is mostly optional to use. Physical buttons for important stuff and music/calls. Mine is a LPG/gasoline hybrid but most is similar to the EV models.
Least bad in Mozillas privacy review as well. Plenty of electronics still ofc it is needed in any car today EV or not.
My 2017 Chevy Bolt is fully electric and has less fancy integrations than most cars sold today. It’s got Bluetooth and aux audio in but you have to connect a phone with a cable for Car Play or Android Auto, it’s got normal buttons and switches for all the car stuff too. It had a remote start until I ran out of free On Star months.
If you have an old truck, Edison Motors has preorders for the Pickup Truck conversions. The kit will only have the drive train stuff in it and anything else is not something they’re interested in. They are working with autoshops to do the conversions, so it’s not a DIY thing.
Nice. I don’t have a truck, I was just wondering in case I want to replace my car in the future.
Well, another thing that’s nice about Edison Motors is that they’re the Engineers, Mechanics and End Users for the kits. It all started because they wanted a Tesla Semi Truck to try for their logging company, but got snubbed by Tesla. It should have much higher usability then a truck designed by someone who’s never driven a truck before.
This isn’t like a Prius where the Engine, Electric Motor and Tires are all connected mechanically at some point. The Diesel/Generator unit is only connected to the E-Axle via electrician power. Because the company supported open standards and open documentation, you could just get the e-axle, ESC, and battery pack and build a pure EV around it. They need to focus on a simple product line with the broadest use cases for starting though, so I’m not surprised they aren’t talking about pure EV trucks.
There’s also strong community and wealth of information on swapping EV guts into older cars. You get the benefits of EV without the spyware and info-distractions. These are all custom jobs though, so a cost estimate is impossible. Deboss has a very interesting EV project going on right now. Edison says the total cost of their kits should be around 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a new truck
I have an old Scottsdale truck I’m eyeing for a Edison conversion. The juxtaposition of a modern diesel/EV hybrid drive train combined with an 80’s square body truck with manual crank windows it too irresistible. All running on biodiesel as well.
