Nah in a lot of cases the guy doing the bare minimum also makes more than you.
He’s a project manager!
Do project managers make decent money? In my field I’ve always been told developers make significantly more.
I would make more as project manager, but I don’t want to be on the phone and write mails with clients all day
I would rather set myself on fire than to look at budgets, billable rates, timesheets, or talk to people.
I’m hardore technically aligned, and far enough along in my career (and at a good enough company) that I can turn down opportunities to PM.
Look at this fat cat who can turn down opportunities over here!
He’s such a dick
May I ask what your field is? I am in software development.
looks around barley, I think? 🤷
Ha. Ha. Ha. Lol, sort of
Industrial automation
When I was in college I learned I liked the idea of coding a lot more than I liked coding. Now I know just enough C++ to be able to translate dev speak into corporates speak and back, can claim to be an engineer, and get to talk to stupid people, who think they are smart, who think that I’m really smart, and I spend more of my day on social media. I had one job that in the six months I was there I think I actually did MAYBE 40 hours of work. If it wasn’t for “business conditions related to COVID-19” I’d probably still work there, though I’m making more, and working somewhat more, now.
developers SHOULD make more, but in my experience they don’t. I suspect part of this is because the people that make the salary decisions frequently talk to the PM so they know he’s valuable, but the devs even if he has talked to them he likley doesn’t have a relationship with them, and sees them primarily as a number of spreadsheet that can be replaced with less expensive developing nation devlopers anytime the stock price goes down (or in my case went up but they thought it was going to go down, so they went ahead and laid off 1,000 devs in the States anyway, promising to hire 3,000 Indian devs in their place, and then not actually doing that even, which made the stock price go up again)
Bro, I’m salaried and only really need to work six hours a day. So that’s exactly what I do. My coworkers put in 12-14 hours a day six days a week… We get the same paycheck.
Granted, I’m consistently rated at the bottom of my department by my supervisors, but I’m also the most highly requested employee by our customers. Literally no one else gets requested by name and I have to triage projects.
See I’m salary but I’m forced to put in 8 hrs a day. Even if I have no work to do. It sucks.
That’s horrible. What’s the point of salary if you have an hourly requirement? That sounds like fake hourly.
Why do you think there is so much disparity between your bosses and your clients?
I show up late and leave early and don’t participate in the “work culture” stuff, this makes my employer upset.
I get requested because I’m the best at my job and the customers talk to each other. I’ve had clients from other employees ask to switch to me but that’s not allowed by policy. The best I can do is look at the work they’re receiving and give feedback.
Sounds like shitty management.
It’s crabs in a bucket and they’re mad I won’t get in the water. I’m paid well and they mostly leave me alone. They’ve only once fucked up my career once by bad-mouthing me to a department I tried to transfer to in order to learn a new skill.
Crabs in a bucket makes sense for the staff, but not the management. Management should be judging with outputs in mind.
I’m consistently rated at the bottom of my department by my supervisors
Unless you miss out on raises or promotions because of this or lose your job, this is meaningless. It’s “this will go on your permanent record” but for adults. This is coming from somebody who is pretty proudly the quiet worker who stays around the middle of the pack and does just enough to keep things slightly better than just maintained, so both coworkers and bosses can objectively see that I’m neither making things worse nor just keeping things coasting. And I got a promotion last year, so I guess it’s the right strategy (here, anyway) lol.
Yep, they’re only middle management as far as the company is concerned I’m still competitive for corporate level promotions and my “bad” reputation will stay back in my current office. I’m gunning for a promotion next summer, so hopefully these dingbats will be in my rearview mirror next year.
Good luck and Godspeed! Write down every recent and upcoming success so you can cite objective improvements in your interviews/meetings. Customer feedback will help too. If you have any big clients who can vouch for you personally being the reason that your company kept their business, even better. The only risk there is that they may decide that you’re too valuable in your current role, but you can get ahead of that by pitching that you’ll be able to apply your success to bigger wins in a higher role and guide others to learn how to do what you’ve done. Worst case scenario, you don’t get that promotion but you still have it all compiled for interviews elsewhere. If you want to be at the level of that promotion, you should chase it whether it’s within the company or without! You got this!
do you have any other advice? they got us going back to the mines soon with no additional pay, no parking, and no bus passes. so I’m looking to adjust accordingly
Honestly, if you have time and are risk tolerant, going to flight school is a great career at the moment. You take on $200k in debt though.
“Okay but the guy who goes the extra mile will get a promotion and do better in the long run.” —a guy who has always gone the extra mile, never gotten a promotion and is doing exactly the same as everyone else
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I got a new job last year. It was a massive pay cut. 1/3 of what i was making. Skip to the end for a TL/DR.
I hit the ceiling hard at the old job and people i had never worked with or worked with only a handful of times had basically all said i was uncomfortable to work with because of my pace. I’m a walk and talk guy and if i was hired for a job (I’m a long term contact worker) I was usually hired because someone else had started a project and here i am. I was a fuckin one man wrecking crew. I work amazingly well with just about everyone because i find their strengths and weaknesses and immediately (and usually subtly) just start with the weakness, get the ball rolling and by the time there’s momentum they are back in their comfort zone. Aim them and let em go. I work with management, i work with operators and I’ve worked with janitorial staff to solve really shitty problems quickly and mostly painlessly. Apparently that means I’m doing jobs other people should be doing (eg currently and actively employed) which rubs them the wrong way. I’m contact, dgaf. That’s a wall of text bitches.
TL/DR i know it’s easy to say money isn’t everything but it can definitely be a trap that promotes some bad/unsustainable life choices. Recognize its unsustainable and have a plan.
I get paid way more than my coworkers, and even my supervisor, because when I got hired I immediately made a bunch of random tools in google sheets that only I know how to maintain, and spread them around until everyone was using them. Before long, I was essential to my department, and praised for going “above and beyond” even though I was mostly just dicking around making the tools rather than doing my actual job.
I have 0 coding experience, so the tools are absolutely horrendous behind the scenes, but that just means that they break pretty often, and people are reminded that only I know how to fix them. So, when I went looking around on LinkedIn for other offers after a few years, I eventually got one that was paying way more since it was in a major metro area, and I took it back to my manager to negotiate a 50% raise and a full-remote designation that virtually nobody else in my office is given.
You don’t get ahead by working hard, and you don’t get ahead by working smart to benefit the company, you get ahead by working smart to benefit yourself. Think about it this way - if you’re at the store to buy bananas, and you see that they’re selling bananas for $0.05 ea, you’ll likely think “Wow, that’s a great deal!” and buy a bunch of those bananas at the $0.05 price. You’re not going to pay them the price you think would be fair for a banana, you’re going to take advantage of the price you’re allowed to pay so that you can save money. Your employer sees you - working for less than you’re worth - as a $0.05 banana. You’re nothing more than a cheap commodity they were lucky to snag on sale.
A lot of us “do the bare minimum” do the bare minimum because of all of the time in the past we spent going the extra mile only to be rewarded with ever greater expectations for identical compensation and opportunity.
They made us this way.
No sympathy for them. No mercy!
Some people are passionate about always doing the best they can, and they get a great deal of satisfaction from it. I love being excellent at what I do.
I don’t have a wife or kids. My jobs are a huge part of my identity. Heck - my night job teaching is something I do because I want to do it, not for the little bit of extra money.
But I also know that I’m weird. Most people just want to do their job and go home to their families, and that’s great. They’re doing the job, so they should be compensated every bit as much as the people like me who are devoted to their work.
Nah, I get it. I’m much the same way - I don’t do things half assed - just not made that way.
That said, I’m also not going to eat the corporate brainwashing gruel. The higher up you go the more you see people just flat accept stupid corporate decisions as ‘enlightened’ and they heavily adopt the corporate lexicon. Who needs a critical eye when you fit in?
Fuck that noise.
While I realize there are rules, structures, and culture in place. They shouldn’t hinder people. IDGAF about how someone does something as long as the product is technically sound, reads like Tolstoy, and was efficiently created.
I work a shit ton of OT, but I get paid 1.5x or 2x based on circumstances for that extra time
I deliver the same quality of work on ST and OT—my best, but I would never work unpaid OT (e.g. some of my salaried engineers have been living at the job during our system upgrades) or do things well beyond the scope of my job.
Fuck that
I inderstand fully. I used ti go through the same. At the same time I noticed a big difference when i got married. And a huge one when i had kids. Having a child and being responsible for it is a life changing situation. I tell my self that i became an adult not when i turned 18 but when i became a parent. When this happened to me, my perspective about work stoped revolving about being the best, and turbed to be just and help others be better. That made me soon to realize that those 2 cannot get always together.
Tldr: work 2 live > live 2 work
If you see me going the extra mile, it’s probably the side-effects of me using the company’s resources to learn and do crazy experiments for my own gain.
And neither gets enough to cover inflation.
I go the extra mile. It’s not for pay. It’s because I’m stuck at work for 8 hours anyways and I’d rather work than pretend to work.
Yeah I put in enough work to be proud of myself and not bored. I try to focus on skills and projects that are marketable
Going the extra mile is a good way to never get promoted because you are too valuable in your current position.
It depends on the company and how they treat your job, but mostly as a worker you are there to fulfill a company’s requirement. Unless there’s a position or incentive to go that extra mile, don’t, most companies will never see it. Even if you want to do the extra work for yourself, I’d recommend to find a way to do it as a hobby if it’s unrewarded, separate from work.
What they will see is the absence in case they do need it, and then they will be required to fulfill it, although they may not want to focus on better and more empowered workers with higher expectations and may instead just focus on quantity over quality by hiring more people to fill it. Even worse, don’t be the guy who makes his (and other’s) jobs obsolete to scummy bosses.
Open your eyes, you aren’t in school, you aren’t getting rewarded for better grades at work unless they make it part of the business and your bosses stick to it and not just plugging in friends, buddies, and associates.
My rule at work has always been based around the bears and hikers analogy. You dont have to be the best at what you do. Just dont be the worst.
Also some jobs afford opportunities for non-conventional self-education. If you can learn useful personal or professional skills while at working, do it, and under the guise of work.
Hard work is rewarded with additional responsibilities and tasks for no additional benefit. What is the point?
…and the one that puts in the unrecognized effort will eventually punch a hole through several people’s chests…
…but he’ll, like, feel bad about it later.
Or in my case, get singled out by a manager from another department for no reason, who then gaslights the other managers into thinking I don’t do shit when I’m the only person in my section that even does anything at all. Go through the whole “try to make them quit” playbook but never do anything wrong so they can’t fire me. I would have outlasted all those fuckers if circumstance hadn’t forced me to move out of state.
Pretty sure they just wanted to eliminate my full-time position to save money.
Been there
