I would like to have a real discussion on how to prevent an authoritative communist economy or one without the present of a dictatorship. The major reason (in my opinion) why communism doesn’t work is because of greed and power, to many individuals want to manipulate and control the populace. How can we prevent a dictatorship rule and still have genuine communism. Even if you actually broke up cities, towns, municipals into “Communes” you still have the human emotion of jealously and selfishness. I love the idea of Communism and I have wrote a ton on the subject but I can’t come up with the idea of “protection” from itself.
I like how Godfree Roberts stated this https://www.quora.com/profile/Godfree-Roberts
You cannot because the basis of communism relies on being a dictatorship, the proletariat oppressing the bourgeoisie, this means there is a State and therefore it is authoritative. That is the main difference with anarchism, the fact that according to them authority is inherently malign, but according to Marxism, it is necessary in order to prevent the International Bourgeoisie from invading you until you achieve the final stage of socialism i.e. communism/anarchism/anarchocommunism, or whatever you want to call it, where this dictatorship is eliminated because you have achieved a classless society. Technically speaking, there has not been any communist society, only dictatorships of the proletariat and the problem with greed (while exists, as we have seen in the examples of Khrushchev’s “de-Stalinization” and Neo-liberal policies and Gorbachev’s dissolution of the USSR) can be solved by forcing the high members and bureaucrats of the party that have charges in office to be educated Marxists that have an understanding of the different branches of Marxism, as I believe they do in China.
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I understand were you are coming from and I agree. However one of the major points of a communist state for freedom for everyone. I think there could be a way to have enough check and balances (Not an example of a republic) even if we needed to have someone or group in power. My thinking is the way (kind of) how contracts in a blockchain are created. The society would most have to be automated but then you get into the realm of who’s writing the code.
However one of the major points of a communist state for freedom for everyone.
“freedom” has no intrinsic value in itself. Freedom to do what? Being free from what?
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed person, who goes about hungry, and cannot find employment. Real liberty can exist only where exploitation has been abolished, where there is no oppression of some by others, where there is no unemployment and poverty, where a man is not haunted by the fear of being tomorrow deprived of work, of home and of bread. Only in such a society is real, and not paper, personal and every other liberty possible.”
Stalin
Maybe I’m more referring to an “Anarchic” system. Blockchain I mean as a way of preventing corruption using automation and contracts. Freedom I am referring to everyones’s right to free healthcare , education, shelter, and food. Communes , individual places like towns and cities and whatnot. Using a “contract” through blockchain to only have a consensus based on the rules governing those communes. Using a system like that makes it much harder for corruption to intertwine into the system itself. Take Stalin in Russia , making Ukrainians provide all the food. So I think technology if done correctly could really make communism an actual proof of concept of course the technology would have to expand to keep up with ideas and logical reasoning but I do believe it could work. The determining factor for having communism is for humans to be a “community” to work together based on a classes system.
And how are you to implement such a system using blockchain? It’s a thing that requires a lot of computers and a huge wastage of energy comes with it. So not only is it built on a requirement of expensive technology, this technology itself requires huge supply chains, mines, factories, power plants, universally accepted software, programmers, system administrators and more. The things I’ve listed are required to provide the things necessary for it to exist materially and not socially. Now, how are we to remove corruption with this system? How will laws be passed, how will they be executed, how will they be tracked, where will the blockchain be stored, how will the global south adjust to this techbro thinking of unnecessarily complicating and over-engineering solutions to problems that have easier ones available and without the sneer given to us by those privileged in the north.
These very important resources ought to managed more reasonably to the benefit of the whole population of a country, and not for some stupid chasing of idealism just for the sake of it.
Now stepping a bit back, how are we to implement automation. The machines and software require constant maintenance to ensure it working properly at all times. Next, who is to say these contracts will be upheld by anyone if there is no one willingly enforce them. Why even bother with such an over-complicated system?
So I think technology if done correctly could really make communism an actual proof of concept of course the technology would have to expand to keep up with ideas and logical reasoning but I do believe it could work.
Pure idealism, only words without substance. We can’t just expect the future to somehow be done correctly, if you can’t find ways to do it correctly now.
The determining factor for having communism is for humans to be a “community” to work together based on a classes system.
Class collaborationism??? On my lemmygrad.ml???
In the end, it probably won’t change anything in regards to corruption and better, actually working, measures ought to be used. Authoritarian means, you could say. I believe you mean well, but your thoughts and methods are very unrefined and prone to extreme scrutiny on the base they stand on. Not details, the whole basis.
I said its an idea not a perfect solution, and you don’t have to have huge wastage of resources to run a blockchain. I see all these posts on Reddit, forums, 3chan and other sites. Not a single one of them are actually talking about any kind solutions only that they want communism. That’s why I posted this is the first place, to talk about solutions to brainstorm ideas not just to tear my idea apart lol. Also you can enforce contracts via control systems like industrial control systems. Also blockchain doesn’t mean “currency” , its way to make sure nothing can be changed it immutable. Class collaborationism??? On my lemmygrad.ml??? – yep you have to learn by past mistakes right.
First of all:
Also blockchain doesn’t mean “currency” , its way to make sure nothing can be changed it immutable.
I know. Still doesn’t change the fact of how destructive it is for most of the applications it can be laid to and is proposed for, not just currency. The idea of immutable contracts is destructive in itself by disallowing any and all change, especially if the technology uses something like Etherium to base itself on. So destructive not only resourcefully, but also socially.
I see all these posts on Reddit, forums, 3chan and other sites. Not a single one of them are actually talking about any kind solutions only that they want communism.
Now it would be nice to present a better solution as you’d like to see one, fair enough. But saying that somehow all people against blockchain are communists, is just dishonest. (Also how is 4chan having communists on there?? The closest thing you have is leftypol lol)
Continuing; the better system for fighting corruption, as that was the original topic, is the very powerful, strict and centralized Chinese approach. It’s been proven to work well, and has punished many lower and higher ranking officials for stepping out of line (that being working for the benefit of the people).
They are doing fine without the blockchain. But what is required is the dictatorship of the proletariat, because blockchain or not it is required to meaningfully fight corruption for the benefit of the people. Otherwise nothing would change in dictatorships of the bourgeoisie since corruption is more of a benefit to them rather than a hindrance.
https://www.globalcompliancenews.com/anti-corruption/handbook/anti-corruption-in-china/
https://www.insider.com/china-punished-over-600000-officials-amid-xis-corruption-clampdown-2022-1
Going back to your original post
The major reason (in my opinion) why communism doesn’t work is because of greed and power, to many individuals want to manipulate and control the populace.
~Narrator’s comment~
spoiler
My ass.
The collapse of the Soviet Union and Socialist bloc is more complicated than ‘muh corrupt individuals’. Second of all you hold the misconception that communist parties somehow implemented communism, but that is a common misconception to have. The stage most often discussed can be called socialism, but others (for example in calling China) use the term Worker’s State.
I said its an idea not a perfect solution, and you don’t have to have huge wastage of resources to run a blockchain.
Any idea claiming itself to be a solution must at least hold a good basis, as I said previously the use of blockchain does not. What I would call an imperfect solution are the roads AES countries have to take and their implementations. Many of them are imperfect, could be better and/or different but that doesn’t detract from their basis which clearly has proven itself to work.
Blockchain doesn’t really hold a candle, even theoretically.
Also you can enforce contracts via control systems like industrial control systems.
What will these contracts be used for that we don’t have a solution already for, why not a centralized system everyone can easily access and use, from their phone maybe? Like I don’t know, the online banking system? (Yes, yes thinking in the case of currency. The system itself can also be used for other things, just like blockchain!)
Also, when it comes to enforcing a centralized system that already exists is a better basis to form things around. Also blockchain doesn’t really enforce anything, if it’s not destructive and holds no value, otherwise a third party would be needed to enforce any misstep from contracts ensuring they are not broken. If this third party would also be decentralized just as the blockchain, then we get onto warlordism, which also has simpler solutions for it’s problems. And continuing further and further is just stupid.
Class collaborationism??? On my lemmygrad.ml??? – yep you have to learn by past mistakes right.
Yeah, the mistakes of the Social Democrats are not to be repeated in the fight for Socialism. No mercy shall be given to the bourgeoisie, and no collaboration can be made without having a plan to one up and destroy them.
I urge you to stay more on /c/communism and read some of the material we have around here. There is plenty to learn about communism and what it actually is, as you hold many misconceptions about it. Don’t worry most of us did too, it’s nothing wrong.
Great post , thank you for this. I will keep working on this idea. The reason “why decentralized” is because if its “Central” I can take over it , decentralized meaning I can’t especially using a blockchain or and immutable database.
I do not understand the point you are making in this comment, could you be more specific? There is not freedom for everyone, though, the bourgeoisie needs to be oppressed; criminals and such go to jail, there’s a penal system for a reason; it’s hard to know what you mean by freedom. And also I do not understand your comparison to blockchain, do you mean you want there to be a democratic system for decision making? Because if so that exists in different variations in every dictatorship of the proletarian State, here’s an example with the USSR:
Bookmark for me to write an answer later (will be a reply to this)
