I’ve been removing Google services from my life bit by bit over the past year, and I have to say it is crazy how hard it actually is! They have inserted themselves into so many digital workflows, securing monopoly positions and preventing the rise of competitors and open ecosystems. In many areas the only alternatives are other tech giants, or accepting feature downgrades and having to set things up manually.
I’m really glad that the browser is one area where the transition is actually very simple and straightforward!
What lessons have you learned so far? I’ve switched to FF and DDG with great results, but still use Gmail/android/photos.
I urge you to check out Kagi Browser[1]. I forgot how pain-free using a search engine could be. With Google, a relatively simple search had me typing:
sink tap gasket intitle:"replacement" OR intitle:"repair" filetype:pdf OR filetype:doc inurl:product OR inurl:details "made in" (site:.com OR site:.co.uk OR site:.de) -site:amazon.com -site:ebay.comI am appreciative that I’ve gotten pretty good at finding obscure nuggets of info, and it makes Google Dork[2] searches even more fun, but when I simply need “where to by $x”, Google shat out mindless SEO content.
I also highly recommend Fastmail[3] as an alternative email host. Far cheaper than Google Workspace for custom domains, and their masked email function is wonderful, even more so with 1Password[4].
Turning your back from the abusive Google can look intimidating to begin with, but it turns out it takes very little effort if you make a lil’ plan of alternative services to use.
What’s your take on Kagi joining partnership with brave?
1password rocks big time, AND it’s Canadian!
It even has a Linux desktop application to integrate with system authentication and the CLI for SSH keys.
The biggest thing is probably that you’ll have to pay for things if you want something that’s ethical and preserves your privacy, either a paid service or some initial investment into self-hosting (what I did). It’s 100% worth it imo though, being mostly free from big tech feels really nice!
More specifically, I can highly recommend getting a Synology NAS and your own domain name. They have great replacements for many Google apps, and you can also try out open source alternatives with Docker.
I’m barely feeding my family and paying bills at this point. Paying for privacy, email or storage isn’t an option. I guess I need to up my hobby IT game.
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Or Tuta(nota) https://tuta.com are good!
i switched to calyx os yesterday and i love it already!
You need to have effective replacements.
This is why Apple is so popular… much more thoroughly integrated, in many cases a better product, and for the most part paying more than just lip service to privacy.
About the only Google services I still use is the search engine (while it is still marginally useful), and Maps (since so many people on FB Marketplace also use it, so sending an address using a maps link is the ideal solution).
Firefox has always been great to use for me.
Switched to it recently, have been absolutely loving it! No regrets!
I tried and just not having grouped tabs is so painful. That and being embedded in Google’s federated system makes it hard to get out. Any advice on how to make the switch in the least painful way?
I still have Chromium (on Debian) running solely for the Google stuff I still use. Trying to get away from that as well but it’ll take some time. Be patient with yourself.
See if there is a plug in for grouped tab.
While you’re not wrong, I was hoping for some recommendations as I’ve not found any plugins that make grouped tabs easy to use.
Try using Sidebery, you can have panels, groups, containers, and snapshots in vertical tab tree style.
I use this setup myself. It is like Edge’s vertical tabs which I loved.
I use Simple Tab Groups, it’s great!
I’ve also recently started using this extension, and it’s incredible by comparison. Despite the name being “Simple”, it feels way more advanced than Chrome’s half-hearted attempt at tab groups.
This is the same issue I have. It’s too different and clunky to me and every time I try it I have to switch back.
I want out. What’s the opinion on Chromium?
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I have to restart it once or twice each day as it refuses to play videos or audio after a while. I know it’s not a settings or add-on issue, and I searched everywhere for an explanation. It fucking sucks. I’m this close to going back to Chrome.
Chrome: First-party spyware.
If Firefox goes away, I’ll use Epiphany or Konquerer before I subject myself to anything that makes me view ads.
FF has way too much groundwork laid and way too much mindshare currently (especially given the rust language and all…) If, for some reason, thousands of devs just gave up on mozilla, more would continue the path and fork it most likely.
Mozilla is the result of people giving up on Netscape. It will live!
It’s the result of Netscape losing to anti-trust behaviour by Microsoft and open sourcing their code as a final parting gift.
Netscape was struck down Firefox rose.
And that’s surely why it was originally called Phoenix!
I hope that’s true, because I’m hearing rumblings that Mozilla is moving away from it as their core project.
Well of course. Now all your traffic goes through proxies to Google’s servers for analytics.
100℅ data harvesting.
Genius move by Google. Even calls it a security/privacy measure!
They will succeed too. Most of the human race are Neanderthals anyway. Couldn’t care less.
Please don’t with this tech elitest stuff. Yeah, most people will continue to use chrome because they don’t really understand the gravity of what it means for their privacy, doesn’t mean we can’t do our best to help them out.
Well said. Contempt for the average user makes it easy to forget one’s humanity.
You did so well until the last few sentences. Casually throwing everyone under the bus as idiots isn’t a great move.
To be blunt, there’s a lot of tech noobs out there that have always been, and will always be, fairly bad with technology. There’s an even larger number that can’t be bothered to pay attention or care about it. And finally, there’s the enthusiasts and the tech savvy, most of whom are working in a tech related field (or want to). Special shout out to the enthusiasts who don’t work in a tech field who are still quite savvy. But let’s face it, the enthusiasts and the tech savvy are a minority. We are not their targets. Fact is, even if you’re using Google’s various services or Chrome or whatever, the tech literate are at least aware of what’s happening, and a nontrivial number of them are here. Including you and I.
It then becomes our job to save others from themselves and get them away from the products looking to harm them. Throwing in the towel and calling everyone neaderthals isn’t the way to accomplish this. If we all do our part, we can save those we care about from becoming yet another battery in the machine, with all their data flowing through one company. It’s our duty.
For those that REALLY want to help, get involved in local politics and be the change. Help push regulation on the corporate shills that want it all. Whether that’s running for office, or contacting your local representative or whatever, it’s something that should be done. They shouldn’t be allowed to just implement, what is essentially mass surveillance on the world without someone doing something about it. That’s what the government is supposed to be there to do. I’ll reserve my comments about how effective they’ve been in the past or how corrupt the whole system is, because that will vary from country to country. But bluntly, you can be that change by getting involved.
As to the comments about the general idiocy of the population of earth, I say this: do you know it all? Well, neither do they. Nobody does. Can you fix your car and then turn around and frame a shed from scratch? Me neither. Can you perform experiments to discover new and exciting things in quantum physics, then build a toaster from raw materials? Me neither. Can you fix your plumbing, then create a program in Pascal that does your taxes for you? Me neither. Everyone has their skills, talents and expertise. Simply because there is a large percentage of people whose expertise is not tech, doesn’t, and shouldn’t, invalidate their intelligence as an individual.
Check yourself, or the next time you have a problem you don’t know how to fix, people might just throw in the towel on helping you.
Chrome is the new reddit
So nothing will change 😅
Made the switch to Firefox last year. Love, love, love the freshness and versatility of the browser! Also add-ons for mobile!!!
I’ve read so many bs paid-off articles recently how chrome is so much better than firefox, or firefox has nothing left to give to its users
I agree it’s BS, but how do you know they’re “paid off”? What’s an example of one that was “paid off”?
Don’t Be Evil!
Lots of people can’t just straight up ditch it. I have had multiple websites just don’t work with Firefox regardless of whatever add-ons I put. For me I just go into a Windows sandbox, but there’s people who are not that tech savvy and it’s often forced on them. Also iirc most schools have chrome books they let students use. So it’s basically forced onto people.
Do you have any examples? I have used Firefox for years and never experienced this, nor heard of anyone I know who uses Firefox experiencing this.
Not the commenter, but…
I play tabletop RPGs (Pathfinder 2e for those care) online with some friends, and we use a website which hosts the program (forge-vtt.com).
For the life of me, I cannot get it to behave on Firefox. Maps will be pitch black while on Chrome they render perfectly. I’ve tried every permutation of browser setting and extension toggling I can think of to no avail.
Tried switching off hardware acceleration?
Yup, that was the common suggestion I was finding, but no luck with it on or off.
I’ve hit the odd site where a menu doesn’t work the way it should, the payment form doesn’t work, overall form validation is wonky, or the captcha doesn’t work. I attribute most of these to slight nuances in javascript between browsers.
I’m a (old, grey) dev, and I’ve had to shame colleagues into testing in mobile browsers other than Chrome and Safari.
Oftentimes, when I use Firefox (Main browser on my phone) things just don’t render/show up. One thing I noticed was when I input my area code to find a package distribution center, and it straight up didn’t show. Iirc it relied on Google maps for showing these places.
It worked in Chrome. Not pointing any fingers, it’s just odd, is what I’m saying.
This is the Proxmox console on any of my VMs or LXCs in Firefox. Works just peachy in any Chromium-based browser.
Today there was a page on my bank that just would not load in Firefox even though the rest of the site was fine. Switched to Chrome and it worked fine. I only use Chrome in these situations.
If a website or app doesn’t test in Firefox, I avoid it. That’s something I run into like once a year, and I just use edge once if I need to, and avoid that website or app in the future. It’s not hard to support Firefox, it’s just a shitty ass business decision not to
Use a Chromium fork instead if you’re having so much trouble. Thorium is a decent alternative.
I have had multiple websites just don’t work with Firefox regardless of whatever add-ons I put.
The exact reason why we encurage to ditch Chrome.
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Just another reason to avoid it as much as possible.
The new McAfee.
Way ahead of you. Been using Firefox since it was called Phoenix.
If I’m forced to use a Chrome browser, I use a deGoogled version of chromium. I can’t think of the last time I’ve had to use it though. Firefox support is a priority for my company’s IT dept.
since netscape navigator here. even used netscape during the dark ages (when aol controlled it).
I was so happy when Netscape 4.0 released for OS/2.
I’m glad I’m in a position to basically never have to touch a chrome or chrome derivative for my work. It was a necessary evil to finally kill internet explorer, but these days it’s just hostile to its users.
My main problem is that I prefer other frontends to Firefox. I mostly use Vivaldi and think it’s great, but of course it’s Chromium based. I read somewhere that it’s just way easier to base a browser on Chrome than it is to base one on Firefox. It would be great if the frontend and backend were separated with a unified API and you could simply choose a frontend/interface (Vivaldi) with whatever backend/engine (Gecko). That’s not how it (currently) works though.
There are Firefox forks, but they’re just that: forks with slight modifications. Vivaldi and Arc are basically completely different browsers. Even Orion isn’t based on Gecko, it’s based on WebKit.
Add to that small compatibility issues with certain websites/web apps that aren’t Firefox’ fault, but rather developers targeting Chrome instead of “100 % web standards”. Still, as a user you’ll likely into (small) issues from time to time.
People saying “just use Firefox” have a very narrow view on how any of this works and I sometimes feel like it’s some form of elitism where the cool kids use Firefox and everybody using anything else are “lesser people”. In reality, people have different requirements and priorities. It’s similar to people posting “just use Linux” under every article talking about problems with Windows.
Yes, Chrome and Google sucks, I agree, but there isn’t a single universal solution to this problem.
People saying “just use Firefox” have a very narrow view on how any of this works
No, not at all. I understand perfectly. Your concerns are valid.
Our point is not supporting Chrome is more important in the long run.
There is no front end in the world that will make up for the loss of true ad blocking and everything else Google pushes down the line.
Let’s be clear about this:
I don’t want to tell you to use Firefox. I want to tell you to use whatever you like. I wish we lived in a world where the choice didn’t matter.
But we don’t
When I’m telling people to use firefox, I’m telling them if you have a problem with the direction the internet is going in, you actually have to do something about it beyond just complaining. Support the competition, the only non-profit in the space, and the only true alternative browser left. Because everything is going to get exponentially worse without competition, and we really really need to preserve the one remaining safe refuge.
Well, you’re not saying just use Firefox, you actually bring up valid points and reasoning. Just look at the top comment of this post stating “Not using Chrome is so easy” when it’s not.
Let me clarify that I don’t hate Firefox, it’s my second most used browser on the desktop after Vivaldi, I just don’t think it’s a great browser with its current feature set. Mind you, as soon as ad blocking becomes infeasible with Chrome and forks I’ll instantly bite the bullet and fully switch to Firefox. But as it stands right now, Firefox is lacking features (some of them almost essential if you ask me, see my comment about passkeys) and compatibility (rarely Firefox’ fault, but rather a result of the Chrome semi-monopoly).
The main problem is that Firefox is the only alternative to a Chromium browser on non-Apple platforms, but it’s not the solution to everyone’s problems. Let’s see if and when Orion is going to get ported to Windows/Linux.
super excited about the future of Orion!!
What features does Vivaldi have that don’t exist in a FF extension?
And using a WebKit based browser is still better than using a chromium fork.
I don’t know. I still prefer having vertical tabs, tab grouping, workspaces, web panels, proper loading information, full page screenshots and way more integrated in my browser instead of having to rely on possibly dozens of different extensions that in my testing never provided nearly as good of an experience.
Implementation details matter.
Also mouse gestures and tab tiling. Vivaldi has so many useful features baked in that I don’t want to give up.
Vertical tabs: Sidebery. It might actually be better than the Vivaldi native. I havent used vivaldi with vertical tabs that much, its just a work/secondary browser for me.
Gestures: Gesturify. This is just better than the vivaldi native one.
Tab tiling: well you got me on this one. This is actually pretty neat.
To be clear, I like vivaldi as well, it is my chromium of choice but with the above two extensions firefox is chefs kiss.
I’ll take a look, thanks. I’m not thrilled with the idea of using a dozen extensions that could break or become incompatible, but I would prefer to get off of chrome!
For me it is only 5 extensions really which are essential. uBlock Origin, Dark reader, Sidebery & Gesturify & User agent switcher (it can come in handy every once in a while).
P.S. There is a little caveat to vertical tabs which i forgot. You have to follow an easy 5 step guide on how to hide horizontal tabs when sidebery is active.
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You can get vertical tabs on firefox with custom userChrome.css but it is a nightmare to setup and mozilla is only interested on breaking userChrome with every update lol.
tell me about it! literally the ONE thing keeping me from FF at the moment. vertical tabs are too vital to my workflow at this point to sacrifice.
tell me about it! literally the ONE thing keeping me from FF at the moment. vertical tabs are too vital to my workflow at this point to sacrifice.
I don’t know exactly how to do it, I know you can because when I was in the firefoxcss subreddit there were many posts on how people came up with their own solutions for vertical tabs.
I wanted vertical tabs to save on screenspace, for some reason the default firefox has the biggest top bar of all browsers and it is horrible, this is the userChrome.css that I use, it does what I wanted but it is not vertical tabs:
It is also keyboard centric, I also had to install an extension because firefox (and this only happens on linux) uses alt+number to switch between tabs instead of control+number.
i just remembered this project: https://floorp.app/en/
japanese fork of firefox with lots of features and proper vertical tabs apparently. i’m looking forward to trying it.
check out Floorp: https://floorp.app/en/
Why is using WebKit-based browser “better” than Chromium-based one? Neither supports Google’s monopoly. Vivaldi is not just a skin for Google Chrome, it continues to support manifest v2 extensions and proper adblockers. And the company is owned by the workers, which is super cool
Because they foster a web monoculture where the only thing that works are Chromium based browsers. For better or worse Google controls Chromium which means that they will continue to keep pushing it in the direction they want.
I tried really hard to use Floorp which fixes most of my problems with stock Firefox but even that just showed me how excellent Vivaldi is compared to other browsers.
Let me add that support for passkeys is becoming more and more important and Firefox doesn’t support passkeys. Yes, it supports forms of WebAuthn (YubiKey and the likes), but not “scan this QR code with your smartphone and use biometric authentication to sign in”.
You admit in the opening of your comment that your issue is preference and then go on to say there’s no single universal solution.
There absolutely is a single universal solution. Either adapt your preference and use a different browser until you’re familiar enough with it to prefer it, or adapt your preference to admitting that you don’t care that Google is getting your data more than you care about being ever-so-slightly inconvenienced. It’s pretty simple.
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