based on #12680 but some reductions: some cases were already changed by vim/vim (just according to keikaku) focus on direct mention of the user which was the major concern.
Well… or the text was written by a male programmer and he was addressing himself as most people do when they write something
I disagree. When you write documentation, you necessarily address the reader, which can and will be any gender.
Thinking about about gender while writting technical documentation should be a second thought (as it is here too).
So just use “they”. It’s now the generally accepted English gender neutral pronoun, and for the younger generation especially, its use is already second nature. I don’t see why this is a problem.
Well reader maybe of any gender maybe not. It for sure is good practice to assume both possibilities. But I find it much more important for someone writting instructions to make them clear and correct, not necessarly think about it as an art piece with correct punctuation.
Because they is another word and as far as I … think I made a small mistake… They is plural form of he/she/it right? I got to correct myself in another comment I posted… Anyway I’m sure that reader of something is one person, and I don’t get how addressing this person in plural form is correct? Can you point me to some examples?
Tom Scott makes nice films so I for sure will.
Btw. what is yewtu.be? Is it like invidio.us? :) (changing/mirroring yt links to remove tracking).
So it may mean one or few people. That doesn’t make language more precise. Language should be precises as much as possible to avoid confusion or misleading. Maybe in sentece (giving any context) it will be clear… and all people adopt it… Well I will go and watch what you recommended, there is high probability thay I already did but we will see.
(_I think I made here a ton of grammar mistakes for which I’m sorry, if you want you can point them out)
So it may mean one or few people. That doesn’t make language more precise. Language should be precises as much as possible to avoid confusion or misleading.
I’ve used they as a gender neutral for years now, and have heard a lot of other people use it. I’ve not experienced any issues with confusing it with referring to multiple people, there is always enough context to tell the difference.
I also speak Chinese, which has quite loose grammar rules, way more words that sound the same but have different meanings, and in general leaves much more to context than English, and Chinese people can still convey complex information just as well, so having a dual meaning word won’t be the language disaster that you’re making it out to be.
I guess it won’t :) Especially if it is in use for long time already. I guess then I have never noticed it. Maybe now because author pointed it out it sounded weird/alien to me? But if it is normal, then why post about it? Maybe it is not my jam. You found the changes easier/same to read?
I’m not really good with languages. I always wanted to learn Korean as the country as a whole seems nice, and their alphabet is based on matrix which is really cool :D Btw. so you are english native and learned chinese? I guess one way or another difficulty is similar. How long and with what amount of work you became able to do stuff like small talk?
Can I go off topic? I guess there is many explanations for my question, and it is off topic so if you don’t reply I won’t mind. But if you do there is a question:
If you were born and are living in Canada, I assume you were rised there also. I also assume that your parents first language is chinese so the language part for me is clear. But you consider yourself chinese. Why not canadian as it seems to be your home?
This question maybe pointless, but I’m always eager to hear about another person perspective/experiences and I find your statement here interesting ^^
Yewtube is an instance of Invidious. The “official” instance run by the creators shut down, and they’re redirecting everyone to independently run ones.
I watched one (I didn’t use your link though, sorry) and example with Facebook and picture update makes a lot of sense. Webpage doesn’t know if Tom Scott is an organisation, some group or one guy (well it knows much much more over all so maybe that’s not the case). But I can assume than my reader is one or another so s/he seems to me really fine. Unless you are addressing users of your software as a group? Or someone could rewrite sentence to avoid any words like she, they. This for me would be much prettier, more precise solution. But maybe “they” just needs to grow on me? I guess we will see :p
But I can assume than my reader is one or another so s/he seems to me really fine.
What about nonbinary people? Also, s/he sounds really awkward to me, much more than they. Like, how do you pronounce that? Shakespeare used they for gender neutral, it’s nothing new.
And, yeah, it sounded kind of weird to me when I first learned about it, but a while after using it and seeing other people use it, it’s second nature now.
I guess they are the slash? Hm, in my country it is quite often used form, except we usually add it at the end of the word as the difference in femine and masculine form happens there. Usually because of that I read the word two times. First time so I know it is there, second time in correct form for me. Maybe it isn’t super efficient but works fine in my language. So here if you are women you read she, if you are male you read he. I guess if you somehow don’t like any of the two options you can pick slash or just skip it as it isn’t applying to you.
I guess I got to read Shakespeare then :D Maybe I get accustom to this :)
I disagree. When you write documentation, you necessarily address the reader, which can and will be any gender.
So just use “they”. It’s now the generally accepted English gender neutral pronoun, and for the younger generation especially, its use is already second nature. I don’t see why this is a problem.
Well reader maybe of any gender maybe not. It for sure is good practice to assume both possibilities. But I find it much more important for someone writting instructions to make them clear and correct, not necessarly think about it as an art piece with correct punctuation.
Because they is another word and as far as I … think I made a small mistake… They is plural form of he/she/it right? I got to correct myself in another comment I posted… Anyway I’m sure that reader of something is one person, and I don’t get how addressing this person in plural form is correct? Can you point me to some examples?
Yes, but it has also been generally accepted as a gender neutral singular, so it has two meanings.
Tom Scott video with more information: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=46ehrFk-gLk
Tom Scott makes nice films so I for sure will. Btw. what is yewtu.be? Is it like invidio.us? :) (changing/mirroring yt links to remove tracking).
So it may mean one or few people. That doesn’t make language more precise. Language should be precises as much as possible to avoid confusion or misleading. Maybe in sentece (giving any context) it will be clear… and all people adopt it… Well I will go and watch what you recommended, there is high probability thay I already did but we will see.
(_I think I made here a ton of grammar mistakes for which I’m sorry, if you want you can point them out)
I’ve used they as a gender neutral for years now, and have heard a lot of other people use it. I’ve not experienced any issues with confusing it with referring to multiple people, there is always enough context to tell the difference.
I also speak Chinese, which has quite loose grammar rules, way more words that sound the same but have different meanings, and in general leaves much more to context than English, and Chinese people can still convey complex information just as well, so having a dual meaning word won’t be the language disaster that you’re making it out to be.
I guess it won’t :) Especially if it is in use for long time already. I guess then I have never noticed it. Maybe now because author pointed it out it sounded weird/alien to me? But if it is normal, then why post about it? Maybe it is not my jam. You found the changes easier/same to read?
I’m not really good with languages. I always wanted to learn Korean as the country as a whole seems nice, and their alphabet is based on matrix which is really cool :D Btw. so you are english native and learned chinese? I guess one way or another difficulty is similar. How long and with what amount of work you became able to do stuff like small talk?
No, I’m Chinese born living in Canada. Chinese is my first language.
Can I go off topic? I guess there is many explanations for my question, and it is off topic so if you don’t reply I won’t mind. But if you do there is a question:
If you were born and are living in Canada, I assume you were rised there also. I also assume that your parents first language is chinese so the language part for me is clear. But you consider yourself chinese. Why not canadian as it seems to be your home?
This question maybe pointless, but I’m always eager to hear about another person perspective/experiences and I find your statement here interesting ^^
Yewtube is an instance of Invidious. The “official” instance run by the creators shut down, and they’re redirecting everyone to independently run ones.
I heard of that when app I was using stopped working. Good to know :)
I watched one (I didn’t use your link though, sorry) and example with Facebook and picture update makes a lot of sense. Webpage doesn’t know if Tom Scott is an organisation, some group or one guy (well it knows much much more over all so maybe that’s not the case). But I can assume than my reader is one or another so s/he seems to me really fine. Unless you are addressing users of your software as a group? Or someone could rewrite sentence to avoid any words like she, they. This for me would be much prettier, more precise solution. But maybe “they” just needs to grow on me? I guess we will see :p
What about nonbinary people? Also, s/he sounds really awkward to me, much more than they. Like, how do you pronounce that? Shakespeare used they for gender neutral, it’s nothing new.
And, yeah, it sounded kind of weird to me when I first learned about it, but a while after using it and seeing other people use it, it’s second nature now.
I guess they are the slash? Hm, in my country it is quite often used form, except we usually add it at the end of the word as the difference in femine and masculine form happens there. Usually because of that I read the word two times. First time so I know it is there, second time in correct form for me. Maybe it isn’t super efficient but works fine in my language. So here if you are women you read she, if you are male you read he. I guess if you somehow don’t like any of the two options you can pick slash or just skip it as it isn’t applying to you.
I guess I got to read Shakespeare then :D Maybe I get accustom to this :)